Politics, politics, politics

[SpurMeUp]

Hilarious ( not) and childish at the same time, can not say i am surprised though with the general wailing and crying the losers of a democratic vote have been doing.

You are right. But there is an unusual, 'un-democratic' reality of a referendum. If a government won 52% of the vote in a general election, it would face a tough time. The opposition would only need a few dissenting MPs to join them, and the government wouldn't be able to pass laws as they wished.

In a binary referendum, it doesn't matter if you lose by 0.1% or 100%, it makes no difference, the result is the same. Is that representative of the peoples' vote, is that democratic?

 

[milo]

You are right. But there is an unusual, 'un-democratic' reality of a referendum. If a government won 52% of the vote in a general election, it would face a tough time, the opposition would only need a few dissenters and the government wouldn't be able to pass laws as they wished.

It's been a long time since we had a government get that level of popular support

 

[milo]

Hilarious ( not) and childish at the same time, can not say i am surprised though with the general wailing and crying the losers of a democratic vote have been doing.

Oh for GHod's sake lighten up.

 

[SpurMeUp]

It's been a long time since we had a government get that level of popular support

Yes but a majority government has a majority of seats in the legislature - in parliament. If you have 52% of seats, you have a majority. Not a strong one, it wouldn't be a strong government, but a majority government never the less.

 

[parklane1]

Oh for GHod's sake lighten up.

I wish i could laugh but obviously my sense of humour is not the same as yours. I do get the point you are making and in all honesty i was happy last Friday morning, but since then all the doom and gloom merchants winging and crying because they lost a democratic vote to the majority has lightened my mood a long way.

But you are right why should i let the moaners, scaremongering do that to me, after all no one should take them to seriously.

 

[milo]

I wish i could laugh but obviously my sense of humour is not the same as yours. I do get the point you are making and in all honesty i was happy last Friday morning, but since then all the doom and gloom merchants winging and crying because they lost a democratic vote to the majority has lightened my mood a long way.

But you are right why should i let the moaners, scaremongering do that to me, after all no one should take them to seriously.

I don't see a lot of doom and gloom or whinging and crying on here. What I do see is an interest in discussing the outcome of the vote and how it might play out both politically and economically over the next few years.

 

[SpurMeUp]

No one got back to me regarding whether a referendum is as democratic as a general election!

A general election result represents the vote - nuances of the vote. A referendum represents the majority only. It has no capacity for nuances, or representation of a spectrum. It only represents the majority vote. Be that 52% or 100%. Inversely if the losing vote gets 1% of the vote, or 49%, it also makes no difference at all.

Ergo @parklane1 to constantly refer to this being a democratic result, suck it up, don't moan etc., is this really the case? The Referendum does not represent a range of peoples views as democratic elections do.

 

[milo]

No one got back to me regarding whether a referendum is as democratic as a general election!

A general election result represents the vote - nuances of the vote. A referendum represents the majority only. It has no capacity for nuances, or representation of a spectrum. It only represents the majority vote. Be that 52% or 100%. Inversely if the losing vote gets 1% of the vote, or 49%, it also makes no difference at all.

Ergo @parklane1 to constantly refer to this being a democratic result, suck it up, don't moan etc., is this really the case? The Referendum does not represent a range of peoples views as democratic elections do.

I don't think that there is an answer to your question.

As we stand, the referendum stands unless it is overturned by another vote (referendum or general election).

 

[milo]

After Brexit, finding a new London for the financial world to call home

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/b...call-home.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

 

[Baleforce]

After Brexit, finding a new London for the financial world to call home

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/b...call-home.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

depressing, if that happens we'll have ripped out our most successful industry

 

[milo]

depressing, if that happens we'll have ripped out our most successful industry

I was reading somewhere yesterday that some Tories think that losing the city is an acceptable compromise for having EEA access for goods but without freedom of movement.

I was amazed that any Conservative could think like that. I'll see if I can find where I read it.

 

[scaramanga]

I was reading somewhere yesterday that some Tories think that losing the city is an acceptable compromise for having EEA access for goods but without freedom of movement.

I was amazed that any Conservative could think like that. I'll see if I can find where I read it.

I doubt May or Leadsom would accept that.

They appear to be the two serious contenders.

 

[parklane1]

I don't see a lot of doom and gloom or whinging and crying on here. What I do see is an interest in discussing the outcome of the vote and how it might play out both politically and economically over the next few years.

You can not be serious about all the doom and gloom? it may not be all on here but there is a lot of it about. Since this episode has started you have been doing nothing but putting up links that suggest that nothing but a remain vote would be good for the country, ( now i understand that is your opinion which is fine) but at the same time you were suggesting? that a leave vote would be a disaster and the county would fall into a abyss.

Thankfully the majority did not agree with yours or the papers who printed all that scaremongering and voted to leave.

Earlier in this thread you replied to a post of mine with the following.


I get that you and the Portugeezer chose to ignore or disregard most of the warnings during the campaign but only listening to voices that support your position now is going to give you a very distorted impression of what is happening.

I did reply but you must have missed it? so i have included it again below.

( Point two, i am not going to trawl through this thread but they have been a lot of things said ( from different sources) saying that the world is not going to end and we will not be in a mess ( Mervyn King being one) who said that there is a lot of scaremongering going on and people should not panic. So it all honesty are you not doing the same thing you are accusing us of? ie you are only listening to the voices that support your position?)


Stop! Hammer time and you have made yours pretty obvious ( with all the negative links you have included) which as i have already said is fine as its your view on the subject, mine is different and as i say thankfully the majority who voted disagreed with yours( shurley that is what a democracy is all about), so when you tell people to lighten up again i say (as i did in my earlier post which you did not see for whatever reasons) that works both ways does it not?.

 

[scaramanga]

I'm not sure how you could split status quo *insert Rick Parfitt joke here*

I'm ashamed to admit I thought the same thing.

You could split it into:

• The Spain model. All of the benefits of the EU but no contribution and ignoring all the regulation
• The UK model. Everything that's bad about the EU with only access to the market as recompense
• The Germany model. Full "ever closer union" and all that nonsense, including paying for everyone else's inability to manage their budgets

 

[milo]

I doubt May or Leadsom would accept that.

They appear to be the two serious contenders.

I agree thar those are the two that are most likely to the members (unless there is a coronation) but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some dirt dug up on Leadsom.

With regards to the City, we are at an impasse. Unless we accept the four freedoms, we are not going to get a passport for services. All the time that is the case, no Prime Minister (or Parliament) will activate Article 50.

 

[scaramanga]

I agree thar those are the two that are most likely to the members (unless there is a coronation) but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some dirt dug up on Leadsom.

With regards to the City, we are at an impasse. Unless we accept the four freedoms, we are not going to get a passport for services. All the time that is the case, no Prime Minister (or Parliament) will activate Article 50.

I think if Labour keep Corbyn (or a similar student union politician) then May, as a remainer, could get away with it and win the next election.

If Labour get a serious politician in charge then the Conservatives will need to keep the UKIP defectors to win and would struggle to allow free movement.

 

[milo]

I think if Labour keep Corbyn (or a similar student union politician) then May, as a remainer, could get away with it and win the next election.

If Labour get a serious politician in charge then the Conservatives will need to keep the UKIP defectors to win and would struggle to allow free movement.

I agree that the Tories could put anyone up against Corbyn and win.

The second situation puts the Tories in a real quandary. They can't afford to tinkle of the city because that is where they are bankrolled from. A Tory move to the right and a moderate Labour leader could see the city get behind Labour again.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

I wish i could laugh but obviously my sense of humour is not the same as yours. I do get the point you are making and in all honesty i was happy last Friday morning, but since then all the doom and gloom merchants winging and crying because they lost a democratic vote to the majority has lightened my mood a long way.

But you are right why should i let the moaners, scaremongering do that to me, after all no one should take them to seriously.

@parklane1 - you are clearly a Leaver and that is a valid position to hold. Now that the Leave vote has won the day, do you have a sense for what sort of "Leave" environment you personally would like to see?

 

[wiziwig]

No one got back to me regarding whether a referendum is as democratic as a general election!

A general election result represents the vote - nuances of the vote. A referendum represents the majority only. It has no capacity for nuances, or representation of a spectrum. It only represents the majority vote. Be that 52% or 100%. Inversely if the losing vote gets 1% of the vote, or 49%, it also makes no difference at all.

Ergo @parklane1 to constantly refer to this being a democratic result, suck it up, don't moan etc., is this really the case? The Referendum does not represent a range of peoples views as democratic elections do.

In the 2015 general election, 11.3m people voted the Conservatives into power with 331 seats.

3.8m people also voted UKIP and they got one, yes one seat in the house!

UKIP, is the political party with the third highest number of voters in the UK and it's one solitary MP has been constantly jeered by all the EU luvvies whenever he rose to speak in the House Of Commons.

3.8m have had their voice shut out in the house of commons and their viewpoint ridiculed by the collusion of all the other political parties.

The democractic election you talk of, clearly does not result in democratic representation of the people but instead gives a false impression of how the nation's people view things.

 

[glasgowspur]

Too many people will have changed their mind or be more motivated to vote who didn't in the ref to be sure of any election if it is run on an in/out ticket.
Regardless of what happens until in is invoked I'm wouldn't rule out anything.