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Politics, politics, politics

milo said:
We'll see, like I said, this is all a bit speculative and things change very quickly at the moment but it is worth remembering that it was only an advisory referendum of binary choices. Leave did not set out what leave would mean during the campaign. A general election where clear proposals on our future relationship with Europe were set out by the parties would carry more weight and be easier to get through Parliament.

I think that it is telling that everyone keeps kicking triggering Article 50 down the street. We've gone from it being triggered immediately after a leave win, to the autumn, to May saying not before the end of the year and Gove saying when it is in the country's interest. It would be daft to try and negotiate our exit next year when both France and Germany have general elections. It is not inconceivable that this pushes it back to the end of 2017. We are then in a period where we have a fag end government with a wafer thin majority and a Prime Minister without a popular mandate, would we want to start it then?

Anyway. All very speculative and I could be very wrong.
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's how it plays out, but it would be entirely wrong IMO.

The only way to do this would be to offer different terms of leaving to another referendum - ie one group presenting the "UKIP" case for restricted movement/restricted access to the free market and the other presenting the case for free movement and free access.
 
I want to move to Italy.....foods great......and their national football team is great to watch.......the women are not too bad either :cool:
 
So... Theresa May.

Scara set out why he doesn't want her to be PM i.e. big brother watching everyone would drive ne'erdowells underground etc (paraphrasing).

I don't know too much about the candidates but I quite like the fact that she seems quite serious, grey, a proper politician that will make decisions based on facts rather than showboating to the press or her mates in the Bully club. She had a fairly normal upbringing and seems quite dull, just what I want from a PM... essentially you can't trust what comes out of any of their mouths, so I am basing my decision on a snap judgement and judging the candidates by their faces and ability to eat bacon sandwiches politely.
 
Weds: Corbyn asks Cameron if the chancellor should drop his fiscal rule and arbitrary surplus target. Cameron said that wouldn't be necessary, wrong thing to do, etc.

Fri: Chancellor said he will drop this rule and surplus target.

Good to see Cameron has his finger on the pulse. The sooner he goes, the better.
 
Bullet said:
So... Theresa May.

Scara set out why he doesn't want her to be PM i.e. big brother watching everyone would drive ne'erdowells underground etc (paraphrasing).

I don't know too much about the candidates but I quite like the fact that she seems quite serious, grey, a proper politician that will make decisions based on facts rather than showboating to the press or her mates in the Bully club. She had a fairly normal upbringing and seems quite dull, just what I want from a PM... essentially you can't trust what comes out of any of their mouths, so I am basing my decision on a snap judgement and judging the candidates by their faces and ability to eat bacon sandwiches politely.
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Other than the wide-on she has for the snooper's charter I think she'd be a very good PM. She's certainly the most accomplished of those standing.
 
the dza said:
Weds: Corbyn asks Cameron if the chancellor should drop his fiscal rule and arbitrary surplus target. Cameron said that wouldn't be necessary, wrong thing to do, etc.

Fri: Chancellor said he will drop this rule and surplus target.

Good to see Cameron has his finger on the pulse. The sooner he goes, the better.
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I think that shows the uncertainty rather than DC's understanding

we'd obviously rather not have to do that and on Wednesday they were still hopeful of being able to avoid it

today they have had to skate to where the puck is
 
I can only assume everyone has told Comrade Osborne he's for the bin considering the way he keeps talking down the economy lately.
 
Also we should stay in the EU...

https://twitter.com/x/status/748809387322404864

A document was released on Monday by two EU bigwigs called Jean-Marc Ayrault (French Foreign Minister) and Frank-Walter Steinmeier (German Foreign Minister) : A strong Europe in a world of uncertainties

URL Link: http://www.voltairenet.org/article192564.html
PDF version: http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/DokumentUE-2.pdf
Some key parts of the document:

Page 1:
"France and Germany remain most firmly of the belief that the European Union pro-vides a unique and indispensable framework for the pursuit of freedom, prosperity and security in Europe, for shaping peaceful and mutually beneficial relationships amongst its people and for contributing to peace and stability in the world. Our two countries share a common destiny and a common set of values that provide the foundation for an ever closer union between our peoples. We will therefore move further towards political union in Europe and invite the other Europeans to join us in this endeavour."

Page 2:
"To deliver better, Europe must focus on today’s main challenges – ensure the security of our citizens confronted with growing external and internal threats; establish a stable cooperative framework for dealing with migration and refugee flows; boost the European economy by promoting convergence and sustainable and job-creating growth and advancing towards the completion of the Economic and Monetary Union."

Page 5:
"In the medium term, we should work towards a more integrated approach for EU internal security, based on the following measures: creation of a European plat-form for intelligence cooperation, fully respecting national prerogatives and using the current frameworks (e.g. CTG); improvement of data exchange; European contingency planning for major crisis scenarios affecting several member states; creation of a European response capability; establishment of a European civil protection corps." Is this the EU Army that @Danishfurniturelover mentioned a few days ago?

"In the longer term, it would make sense to enlarge the scope of the European public prosecutor’s office in future (currently limited to prosecuting offenses con-cerning the EU’s financial interests) to include fighting terrorism and organised crime. This would require harmonisation of criminal law among the member states."

Page 6:
"Securing our external border is no longer exclusively a national task but also a common responsibility. We are determined that the EU should establish the world’s first multinational border and coast guard. In the short term, FRONTEX will be manned by mean of secondments from member states. France and Germany should propose a joint contribution to that end. Over the medium term FRONTEX should be scaled up not only in terms of having its own permanent staff but also with adequate technical equipment to fulfil this task."

Page 7:
"To this day, our common currency constitutes the most visible and ambitious under-taking of European unification. The euro has helped protect its member states from international speculation and contributed to building a common economic area. The euro reflects our commitment to the irreversibility of European integration."
 
scaramanga said:
A woman gets racially abused by her own party and you ask if she's lying? A bit low, don't you think?

As for Corbyn's involvement, in her own words:
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Do your best mate, but don't try to put words in my mouth. Point out exactly where I said she was lying? I just said I wanted some context, which is a sensible reaction when neither you or I were there.
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
Do your best mate, but don't try to put words in my mouth. Point out exactly where I said she was lying? I just said I wanted some context, which is a sensible reaction when neither you or I were there.
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I highlighted the words "did it even occur at all".

Seeing as what you were questioning was her own description of the events then I'd say that's more than asking for context.
 
scaramanga said:
I highlighted the words "did it even occur at all".

Seeing as what you were questioning was her own description of the events then I'd say that's more than asking for context.
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I would be calling her a liar if I said "it didn't happen." Did it occur at all, is deliberately open ended. Did she mishear? Was their confusion about who said the comment? Sometimes people make mistakes, and that does not make them liars. You have a real tendency to over egg the pudding. From subsequent comments, it would seem that is was indeed. much ado about nothing.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
I would be calling her a liar if I said "it didn't happen." Did it occur at all, is deliberately open ended. Did she mishear? Was their confusion about who said the comment? Sometimes people make mistakes, and that does not make them liars. You have a real tendency to over egg the pudding. From subsequent comments, it would seem that is was indeed. much ado about nothing.
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You mean the subsequent comments when the guy all but said "I even have Jewish friends"?

Or the one where she pointed out the Corbyn was on stage and able to hear but did nothing to stop it?

Let's face it - for chunks of the Labour party (Corbyn included) some anti-semitic comments and actions are just a bit of collateral damage incurred when fighting their silly little student fight.
 
scaramanga said:
You mean the subsequent comments when the guy all but said "I even have Jewish friends"?

Or the one where she pointed out the Corbyn was on stage and able to hear but did nothing to stop it?

Let's face it - for chunks of the Labour party (Corbyn included) some anti-semitic comments and actions are just a bit of collateral damage incurred when fighting their silly little student fight.
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All I'm saying, is that I wasn't there, you weren't there and so neither of us can make a definitive comment either way.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
All I'm saying, is that I wasn't there, you weren't there and so neither of us can make a definitive comment either way.
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I think we have to take the account of the victim as true until or unless there is conflicting evidence. In this case there hasn't been.
 
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