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Politics, politics, politics

So much for Sarah Vine saying that Gove had Dacre's support

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indianspur said:
No, its Gove that sh@t all over his close friendship with Cameron by not only joining the leave campaign but actually taking the helm of it, practically going head to head with Cameron. He betrayed Cameron and now he has stabbed Johnson from all sides.

The man is two faced and ruthless
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Although I'm not arguing with that view point is it not the case that that was always goves view and standpoint? Cameron knew that was goves position and it was as expected. Boris on the other hand had no such position, dallied, created a story by dallying and then with the world watching stabbed Cameron in the back for his own gain.
 
scaramanga said:
Her own report of the incident claimed that a common Jewish slur was used against her. In my book that's racially abused.
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Indeed she did

“This morning, at the launch of the Chakrabarti Inquiry into antisemitism, I was verbally attacked by a Momentum activist and Jeremy Corbyn supporter who used traditional antisemitic slurs to attack me for being part of a 'media conspiracy'. It is beyond belief that someone could come to the launch of a report on antisemitism in the Labour Party and espouse such vile conspiracy theories about Jewish people, which were ironically highlighted as such in Ms Chakrabarti's report, while the leader of my own party stood by and did absolutely nothing.”

What you have to understand is the only slurs are the linking of a Jewish MP colluding with the the media. Thats it. No language was used. The black guy said he didnt even know she was jewish.

Watch the video http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...taphors-compares-Israeli-government-ISIS.html

They all go nuts when he says "hand in hand"


We get this silly reaction on twitter from journalists

https://twitter.com/x/status/748478636597084160
 
Watching the news tonight, the story seems to be "Gove stabbed his mate in the back, poor old fluffy Boris got stabbed by evil Gove, do not trust this man" and meanwhile Gove is flapping his wet lips and stating that the one thing he definitely does not want to be is PM (from a few weeks ago). Not a good night for Gove. May is in such a strong position right now...
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-was-jewish-and-denies-momentum-a7111366.html

Mr Wadsworth said afterwards: “Jeremy said something flim-flammy that he didn’t support abuse and people must be respectful. I thought he could have been more robust than that, and said that people have strong views and it’s about freedom of speech – and what about the Telegraph working hand in glove with that Labour MP Ruth Smeeth. That’s the sort of company they’re keeping, these MPs.

“I didn’t have a clue that Ruth Smeeth is Jewish. I’ve never been called anti-semitic in my life . I’ve fought against anti-semitism and racism. During the anti-apartheid struggle, I fought alongside the Jewish Board of Deputies. The Jewish people have an ally in me.”
 
milo said:
The suggestion is that a parliamentary vote is required to trigger Article 50.

They are not really concerning themselves with the outcome of the vote but since you bring it up. The referendum was advisory and not binding, the leave vote did not set out what leave would look like and there are competing visions of leave. I think that gives MPs plenty of scope for voting against if they think that the proposals are not in the country's interest. Voting against might not be a rejection of the referendum result and could instead be a back to the drawing board vote. In either circumstance, I think that it would be difficult to get through without a general election first.
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...at which point we should recognize that having watched Cameron trumpet democracy, it needs to be fulfilled!!!! Otherwise, the Brexits will be legitimately tinkled off. And that will cause major major problems...
 
milo said:
Corbyn saying

“Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu government than our Muslim friends are for those of various self-styled Islamic states or organisations.”

at the launch of a report into antisemitism was incredibly crass and stupid too.
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Absolutely absurd. WTF was he thinking?
 
thfcsteff said:
...at which point we should recognize that having watched Cameron trumpet democracy, it needs to be fulfilled!!!! Otherwise, the Brexits will be legitimately tinkleed off. And that will cause major major problems...
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If the Conservatives won that election, absolutely. If the election was won by a party/coalition standing on a non-Brexit manifesto won, I think that would over rule the referendum.

This is all very speculative though and currently it is difficult to know what is going to happen one day to the next, let alone months or years down the line.

It is an optimist at the moment who buys a newspaper in the morning to read over lunch.
 
the dza said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-was-jewish-and-denies-momentum-a7111366.html

Mr Wadsworth said afterwards: “Jeremy said something flim-flammy that he didn’t support abuse and people must be respectful. I thought he could have been more robust than that, and said that people have strong views and it’s about freedom of speech – and what about the Telegraph working hand in glove with that Labour MP Ruth Smeeth. That’s the sort of company they’re keeping, these MPs.

“I didn’t have a clue that Ruth Smeeth is Jewish. I’ve never been called anti-semitic in my life . I’ve fought against anti-semitism and racism. During the anti-apartheid struggle, I fought alongside the Jewish Board of Deputies. The Jewish people have an ally in me.”
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.....I've even got Jewish friends......
 
milo said:
If the Conservatives won that election, absolutely. If the election was won by a party/coalition standing on a non-Brexit manifesto won, I think that would over rule the referendum.

This is all very speculative though and currently it is difficult to know what is going to happen one day to the next, let alone months or years down the line.

It is an optimist at the moment who buys a newspaper in the morning to read over lunch.
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I don't. A general election covers so much more than that one point it can't possibly make the intentions of the electorate clear on that one issue.

That's the whole point of a referendum.

The electorate decided that, whoever is in power, whoever delivers it, leave is what they want and it was shown in the most accurate way we can in a democratic system. Any attempts to override that with another vote (including an election) is simply acting like the EU that the public clearly want away from.
 
scaramanga said:
I don't. A general election covers so much more than that one point it can't possibly make the intentions of the electorate clear on that one issue.

That's the whole point of a referendum.

The electorate decided that, whoever is in power, whoever delivers it, leave is what they want and it was shown in the most accurate way we can in a democratic system. Any attempts to override that with another vote (including an election) is simply acting like the EU that the public clearly want away from.
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We'll see, like I said, this is all a bit speculative and things change very quickly at the moment but it is worth remembering that it was only an advisory referendum of binary choices. Leave did not set out what leave would mean during the campaign. A general election where clear proposals on our future relationship with Europe were set out by the parties would carry more weight and be easier to get through Parliament.

I think that it is telling that everyone keeps kicking triggering Article 50 down the street. We've gone from it being triggered immediately after a leave win, to the autumn, to May saying not before the end of the year and Gove saying when it is in the country's interest. It would be daft to try and negotiate our exit next year when both France and Germany have general elections. It is not inconceivable that this pushes it back to the end of 2017. We are then in a period where we have a fag end government with a wafer thin majority and a Prime Minister without a popular mandate, would we want to start it then?

Anyway. All very speculative and I could be very wrong.
 
thfcsteff said:
...at which point we should recognize that having watched Cameron trumpet democracy, it needs to be fulfilled!!!! Otherwise, the Brexits will be legitimately tinkleed off. And that will cause major major problems...
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scaramanga said:
I don't. A general election covers so much more than that one point it can't possibly make the intentions of the electorate clear on that one issue.

That's the whole point of a referendum.

The electorate decided that, whoever is in power, whoever delivers it, leave is what they want and it was shown in the most accurate way we can in a democratic system. Any attempts to override that with another vote (including an election) is simply acting like the EU that the public clearly want away from.
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You are both spot on, just because one side lost the vote gives them no moral right to insist on anything but. Bunch of bad losers.
 
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