Politics, politics, politics

[glasgowspur]

I think we have to understand that the UK Brexit vote is NOT what the EU Powers that be wanted on so many levels, least of all encouraging other States to think about exiting the EU and making the planned Political Union of Europe harder.
It has to be expected that the Powers that be that have a vested interest in the creation of the European Superstate will indeed punish us here in the UK for it to:

a) show others "don't f with the EU"
b) cause a re-vote to stay in, or push a new PM to NOT enact article 50 and keep UK in the EU

It is likely that in the time between now and whenever a PM eventually beings the process of enacting article 50 that the Economic punishment will come.
There was a discussion i heard from someone who used to work for the US treasury as well as several Academic roles that aid that the Federal Reserve, EU Bank and Bank of Japan will likely club together to manipulate currency stocks in such a way that the value of the pound plummets.
This would be then be used to push for an even greater uproar and a case for the next PM to get the UK back in the EU.
I'll see if i can find that again as the person very much tread into some fascinating Geopolitical theory on top of this.

So @milo , @The Portugeezer , @parklane1 and others it's too early to say one way or another that Brexit has not effected the markets, but it is inevitable that there will be some attempt at waging Economic warfare on the UK to get us back into the EU.

So probably it's time for us all to hold on to your hats; the powers that be will NOT take this democratic vote lightly!

The political elite are scared for their jobs, end of. The people of Europe do not want closer intergration and ultimately it is them that will decide. It may take time but if the EU stays on its current path it will be demolished.
I voted remain.

 

[scaramanga]

I didn't really pay much attention to Leadsom before this but she wouldn't be a bad shout. Don't think she's popular enough with the public though.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Ok, i found the discussion:

The guy is called Dr Paul Craig Roberts, and he was previously working in Reagan's administration and wrote for the Wall Street Journal for many years as well as many academic roles.
The above video discussed the EU but also other Geopolitical topics such as the EU's purpose from a USA point of view, NATO, etc

This article below summarises his views on Brexit and what it means for the bigwigs:

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/24/the-brexit-vote-paul-craig-roberts/

=====

The Brexit Vote

Paul Craig Roberts

What does it mean?

Hopefully, a breakup of the EU and NATO and, thereby, the avoidance of World War III.

The EU and NATO are evil institutions. These two institutions are mechanisms created by Washington in order to destroy the sovereignty of European peoples. These two institutions give Washington control over the Western world and serve both as cover and enabler of Washington’s aggression. Without the EU and NATO, Washington could not force Europe and the UK into conflict with Russia, and Washington could not have destroyed seven Muslim countries in 15 years without being isolated as a hated war criminal government, no member of whom could have travelled abroad without being arrested and put on trial.

Clearly, the presstitute media lied about the polls in order to discourage the leave vote. But it did not work. The British people have always been the font of liberty. It was the the historic achievements of the British that transformed law into a shield of the people from a weapon in the hands of the state and gave accountable government to the world. The British, or a majority of them, understood that the EU is a dictatorial governing mechanism in which power is in the hands of unaccountable people and in which law can easily be used as a weapon in the hands of unaccountable government.

Washington, in an effort to save its power over Europe, launched a campaign, willingly joined by presstitutes and the brainwashed left-wing, who flocked to the One Percent’s banner, that presented the effort to preserve British liberty and sovereignty as racism. This dishonest campaign shows beyond all doubt that Washington and its media kittens have no regard whatsoever for liberty and the sovereignty of peoples. Washington regards every assertion of democratic rule as a barrier to its hegemony and demonizes every democratic impulse. Reformist leaders in Latin America are constantly overthrown by Washington, and Washington asserts that only Washington and its terrorist allies have the right to choose the government of Syria, just as Washington chose the government of Ukraine.

The British people, or a majority of them, gave Washington the bird. But the fight is not over. Perhaps it hasn’t really yet begun. Here is what the British can likely expect: The Federal Reserve, European Central Bank, Bank of Japan, and George Soros will conspire to attack the British pound, driving it down and terrorizing the British economy. We will see who is the strongest: the will of the British people or the will of the CIA, the One Percent, and the EU and neocon nazis.

The coming attack on the British economy is the reason that leave supporters such as Boris Johnson are mistaken in their belief that there is “no need for haste” in exiting the EU. The longer it takes for the British to escape from the authoritarian EU, the longer Washington and the EU can inflict punishment on the British people for voting to leave and the more time the presstitutes will have to convince the British people that their vote was a mistake. As the vote is nonbinding, a cowardly and cowed Parliament could reject the vote.

Cameron should step down immediately, not months from now in October. The new British government should tell the EU that the British people’s decision is implemented now, not in two years and that all political and legal relationships terminated as of the vote. Otherwise, in two years the British will be so beat down by punishments and propaganda that their vote will be overturned.

The British government should immediately announce the termination of its participation in Washington’s sanctions on Russia and hook its economy to the rising nations of Russia, China, India, and Iran. With this support, the British can survive the Washington led attack on their economy.

======

Fascinating...

 

[glasgowspur]

Ok, i found the discussion:

The guy is called Dr Paul Craig Roberts, and he was previously working in Reagan's administration and wrote for the Wall Street Journal for many years as well as many academic roles.
The above video discussed the EU but also other Geopolitical topics such as the EU's purpose from a USA point of view, NATO, etc

This article below summarises his views on Brexit and what it means for the bigwigs:

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/24/the-brexit-vote-paul-craig-roberts/

=====

The Brexit Vote

Paul Craig Roberts

What does it mean?

Hopefully, a breakup of the EU and NATO and, thereby, the avoidance of World War III.

The EU and NATO are evil institutions. These two institutions are mechanisms created by Washington in order to destroy the sovereignty of European peoples. These two institutions give Washington control over the Western world and serve both as cover and enabler of Washington’s aggression. Without the EU and NATO, Washington could not force Europe and the UK into conflict with Russia, and Washington could not have destroyed seven Muslim countries in 15 years without being isolated as a hated war criminal government, no member of whom could have travelled abroad without being arrested and put on trial.

Clearly, the presstitute media lied about the polls in order to discourage the leave vote. But it did not work. The British people have always been the font of liberty. It was the the historic achievements of the British that transformed law into a shield of the people from a weapon in the hands of the state and gave accountable government to the world. The British, or a majority of them, understood that the EU is a dictatorial governing mechanism in which power is in the hands of unaccountable people and in which law can easily be used as a weapon in the hands of unaccountable government.

Washington, in an effort to save its power over Europe, launched a campaign, willingly joined by presstitutes and the brainwashed left-wing, who flocked to the One Percent’s banner, that presented the effort to preserve British liberty and sovereignty as racism. This dishonest campaign shows beyond all doubt that Washington and its media *****s have no regard whatsoever for liberty and the sovereignty of peoples. Washington regards every assertion of democratic rule as a barrier to its hegemony and demonizes every democratic impulse. Reformist leaders in Latin America are constantly overthrown by Washington, and Washington asserts that only Washington and its terrorist allies have the right to choose the government of Syria, just as Washington chose the government of Ukraine.

The British people, or a majority of them, gave Washington the bird. But the fight is not over. Perhaps it hasn’t really yet begun. Here is what the British can likely expect: The Federal Reserve, European Central Bank, Bank of Japan, and George Soros will conspire to attack the British pound, driving it down and terrorizing the British economy. We will see who is the strongest: the will of the British people or the will of the CIA, the One Percent, and the EU and neocon nazis.

The coming attack on the British economy is the reason that leave supporters such as Boris Johnson are mistaken in their belief that there is “no need for haste” in exiting the EU. The longer it takes for the British to escape from the authoritarian EU, the longer Washington and the EU can inflict punishment on the British people for voting to leave and the more time the presstitutes will have to convince the British people that their vote was a mistake. As the vote is nonbinding, a cowardly and cowed Parliament could reject the vote.

Cameron should step down immediately, not months from now in October. The new British government should tell the EU that the British people’s decision is implemented now, not in two years and that all political and legal relationships terminated as of the vote. Otherwise, in two years the British will be so beat down by punishments and propaganda that their vote will be overturned.

The British government should immediately announce the termination of its participation in Washington’s sanctions on Russia and hook its economy to the rising nations of Russia, China, India, and Iran. With this support, the British can survive the Washington led attack on their economy.

======

Fascinating...

Nutter

 

[glorygloryeze]

Nutter

Why do you say that btw?

 

[glasgowspur]

Why do you say that btw?

The language for one, no right minded person trying to sway an argument with reasonable people would use terms like that.
The EU was not created by Washington, it was created as a bulwark against the USA and its growing influence. In fact the reason the UK couldn't join until the 70s was because de Gaulle, one if not the chief architect of the EU, repeatedly blocked the UK as he judged us to be nothing more than a Trojan horse for the US.
This guy is obviously using any means he can to promote his agenda.
And finally what's with all the GHod/heavenly graphics at the beginning.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Ha, ha. Fat Tim Brooke Taylor just pulled a heart muscle. At least this shows he can count.

 

[The Portugeezer]

Nutter

That's not accurate at all. In fact Dr Paul Craig Roberts knows a lot more about geopolitics than a lot of us do and glorygloryeze is spot on, they will make our lives difficult for trying to leave the EU.

 

[scaramanga]

That's not accurate at all. In fact Dr Paul Craig Roberts knows a lot more about geopolitics than a lot of us do and glorygloryeze is spot on, they will make our lives difficult for trying to leave the EU.

Knowledge ≠ rational thinking. He may know more than all of us put together but can still be a complete nut. He's a complete nut.

Equally, he may be right that the EU will do everything they can to make the UK's choice look worse than it is (including dirty tricks). That doesn't mean that he EU is a US puppet, nor that there is a concerted effort from over there to do anything more than profit from international market trading.

 

[glorygloryeze]

The language for one, no right minded person trying to sway an argument with reasonable people would use terms like that.

What do you mean here: Terms like what?

The EU was not created by Washington, it was created as a bulwark against the USA and its growing influence. In fact the reason the UK couldn't join until the 70s was because de Gaulle, one if not the chief architect of the EU, repeatedly blocked the UK as he judged us to be nothing more than a Trojan horse for the US.

That the EU was created as a Bulwark against the USA certainly sounds plausible/reasonable. However, there are also other theories that suggest the EU was (along with NATO) acting as a good/friendly buffer against Russia and it's Eastern/Communist Bloc. Also, the USA's attitude to whether the UK left the EU certainly seems to suggest that perhaps in reality they see the EU as useful to them in the very least.
Certainly a point for discussion: who created the EU and what was it for (in theory and also in practice)? Was it really something to balance against growing USA influence? Did it work from the beginning seeing as how many Military bases USA have had in the EU, esp Germany, Scandinavia and Greece?

This guy is obviously using any means he can to promote his agenda.

Eh? What do you mean here? What agenda??

And finally what's with all the GHod/heavenly graphics at the beginning.

fudge knows about that one!

 

[monkeybarry]

I understand that parliament might want to discuss the terms of exit, but I can't see any legitimate excuse they could have for discussing whether or not we leave - that choice was clear.

The EUrocrats are making any parliamentary ratification virtually impossible by refusing to discuss terms until article 50 is invoked. My suggestion would be that we very publicly start negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world and start dismantling all the pointless regulation now - the EU will realise that the pressure is on them to resolve this and will weaken on their insistence of no negotiations.

That's the point, it wasn't that clear cut.
A 4% swing is such a narrow margin that it allows lots of wiggle room.

As far as MP careers go, most areas were almost 50/50 (even London was only 60/40) and there is a good case that many feel hoodwinked into a leave vote.
A GE with parties clearly stating their intentions to implement/not implement Art 50 is the only way.
Could be interesting as many voted across party lines.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Hopefully we can play the ball and not the man; if Paul Craig Roberts is a nutter or not, i think it'd be best to discuss the rights and wrongs of what he actually says...

I have to say, i for one, hope he IS a nutter!

 

[scaramanga]

That's the point, it wasn't that clear cut.
A 4% swing is such a narrow margin that it allows lots of wiggle room.

As far as MP careers go, most areas were almost 50/50 (even London was only 60/40) and there is a good case that many feel hoodwinked into a leave vote.
A GE with parties clearly stating their intentions to implement/not implement Art 50 is the only way.
Could be interesting as many voted across party lines.

That won't give us an accurate decision on leaving though.

Think how many scousers will never, ever, ever vote Tory - many would literally die before they did. No matter how much they believed in leaving, they would never be able to vote for it. Equally, if Con were campaigning for leave and Lab for remain, I'd have to fudge our economy, my business and my savings just to vote remain - it would never work.

 

[glasgowspur]

What do you mean here: Terms like what

The EU and NATO are evil, pressitutes, avoidance of world war 3.

It can debated as long as you like, but the fact remains the EUbwas set up for the reasons I've mentioned. As for NATO in the 50s de Gaulle actually took France out of NATO for the same reasons.
De Gaulle had visions of France maintaining its world influence and US were a block on that.
It's debatable (but I'm not offering to open one up) as to whose view is correct, but the stark differences between how the British and French viewed their position in the world and the attitudes towards the futures of their colonies is down to the relationships each country with the super powers.
France wanted an equal footing we flip flopped between them almost as a vassal state depending on the govt of the time.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

The language for one, no right minded person trying to sway an argument with reasonable people would use terms like that.
The EU was not created by Washington, it was created as a bulwark against the USA and its growing influence. In fact the reason the UK couldn't join until the 70s was because de Gaulle, one if not the chief architect of the EU, repeatedly blocked the UK as he judged us to be nothing more than a Trojan horse for the US.
This guy is obviously using any means he can to promote his agenda.
And finally what's with all the GHod/heavenly graphics at the beginning.

Because he's another neo-liberal, right wing, religious, nut job.

 

[glasgowspur]

That's the point, it wasn't that clear cut.
A 4% swing is such a narrow margin that it allows lots of wiggle room.

As far as MP careers go, most areas were almost 50/50 (even London was only 60/40) and there is a good case that many feel hoodwinked into a leave vote.
A GE with parties clearly stating their intentions to implement/not implement Art 50 is the only way.
Could be interesting as many voted across party lines.

I think there is that much contrasting information out there now it's almost impossible for anyone who doesn't follow politics to much an informed view.

 

[glorygloryeze]

The EU and NATO are evil, pressitutes, avoidance of world war 3.

It can debated as long as you like, but the fact remains the EUbwas set up for the reasons I've mentioned. As for NATO in the 50s de Gaulle actually took France out of NATO for the same reasons.
De Gaulle had visions of France maintaining its world influence and US were a block on that.
It's debatable (but I'm not offering to open one up) as to whose view is correct, but the stark differences between how the British and French viewed their position in the world and the attitudes towards the futures of their colonies is down to the relationships each country with the super powers.
France wanted an equal footing we flip flopped between them almost as a vassal state depending on the govt of the time.

Hmmm, fair points. Agree the language of the guy is a bit inflammatory - although if he end up being right, will his words simply be seen as descriptive?

All interesting nonetheless; as i say, i hope he IS nuts (with regards to what his says about the likely reaction by the powers that be to the Brexit vote) but i don't believe he is sadly..
Time will tell.

 

[glasgowspur]

Not trying to make any kind of point or jab etc, but can one explain why if 1% of the population hold 99% of the wealth , they would be trying to screw 1% off the "poor".
Surely the numbers would dictate they would be trying to screw each other? I mean it's hard worth it is it?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

So what have we learnt today? We learnt that Bozo Boris aka Fat Tim Brooke Taylor can count, we learnt that he has no heart and we also learnt that he is a wrecker. He came in, smashed the joint up, asked everybody to thank him for doing such a splendid job and then fudged off. I mean, seriously the buffoon is a walking, talking, policy free zone

 

[glasgowspur]

You reap what you sow boris, no point moaning about being stabbed in the back.
He took the clegg approach, I can sign anything no ones stupid enough to vote for it anyway.