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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=snoopers+charter
It's the reason I didn't vote Conservative at the last election.
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indianspur
Guest
I see. Tbh I'm not too bothered about the bill but I can of course understand many people having a problem with it.
For me it goes entirely against conservative principles. They should be about freedom from government and keeping their noses out of our business.
This is the kind of thing I'd expect from a Labour party that doesn't think we're capable of running our own lives, but the last thing a conservative should campaign for.
Added to which, it will never work.
I've made this argument before, but currently proper disk encryption, log-free VPNs, TOR, TAILS, etc are out of the mainstream. They only work properly when used by cautious people who know their way around computers really well. This means that your average terrorist/paedo/insert boogeyman here cannot evade police detection or evidence gathering. If you start snooping on everyone, everyone wants privacy. Once everyone wants privacy then these measures become mainstream and therefore easier to use and more difficult to break.
It a poorly thought out bill, that is wrong in both principle and execution.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
A document was released on Monday by two EU bigwigs called Jean-Marc Ayrault (French Foreign Minister) and Frank-Walter Steinmeier (German Foreign Minister) : A strong Europe in a world of uncertainties
URL Link: http://www.voltairenet.org/article192564.html
PDF version: http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/DokumentUE-2.pdf
Some key parts of the document:
Page 1:
"France and Germany remain most firmly of the belief that the European Union pro-vides a unique and indispensable framework for the pursuit of freedom, prosperity and security in Europe, for shaping peaceful and mutually beneficial relationships amongst its people and for contributing to peace and stability in the world. Our two countries share a common destiny and a common set of values that provide the foundation for an ever closer union between our peoples. We will therefore move further towards political union in Europe and invite the other Europeans to join us in this endeavour."
Page 2:
"To deliver better, Europe must focus on today’s main challenges – ensure the security of our citizens confronted with growing external and internal threats; establish a stable cooperative framework for dealing with migration and refugee flows; boost the European economy by promoting convergence and sustainable and job-creating growth and advancing towards the completion of the Economic and Monetary Union."
Page 5:
"In the medium term, we should work towards a more integrated approach for EU internal security, based on the following measures: creation of a European plat-form for intelligence cooperation, fully respecting national prerogatives and using the current frameworks (e.g. CTG); improvement of data exchange; European contingency planning for major crisis scenarios affecting several member states; creation of a European response capability; establishment of a European civil protection corps." Is this the EU Army that @Danishfurniturelover mentioned a few days ago?
"In the longer term, it would make sense to enlarge the scope of the European public prosecutor’s office in future (currently limited to prosecuting offenses con-cerning the EU’s financial interests) to include fighting terrorism and organised crime. This would require harmonisation of criminal law among the member states."
Page 6:
"Securing our external border is no longer exclusively a national task but also a common responsibility. We are determined that the EU should establish the world’s first multinational border and coast guard. In the short term, FRONTEX will be manned by mean of secondments from member states. France and Germany should propose a joint contribution to that end. Over the medium term FRONTEX should be scaled up not only in terms of having its own permanent staff but also with adequate technical equipment to fulfil this task."
Page 7:
"To this day, our common currency constitutes the most visible and ambitious under-taking of European unification. The euro has helped protect its member states from international speculation and contributed to building a common economic area. The euro reflects our commitment to the irreversibility of European integration."
So Brexit or no Brexit, the show must go on...
URL Link: http://www.voltairenet.org/article192564.html
PDF version: http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/DokumentUE-2.pdf
Some key parts of the document:
Page 1:
"France and Germany remain most firmly of the belief that the European Union pro-vides a unique and indispensable framework for the pursuit of freedom, prosperity and security in Europe, for shaping peaceful and mutually beneficial relationships amongst its people and for contributing to peace and stability in the world. Our two countries share a common destiny and a common set of values that provide the foundation for an ever closer union between our peoples. We will therefore move further towards political union in Europe and invite the other Europeans to join us in this endeavour."
Page 2:
"To deliver better, Europe must focus on today’s main challenges – ensure the security of our citizens confronted with growing external and internal threats; establish a stable cooperative framework for dealing with migration and refugee flows; boost the European economy by promoting convergence and sustainable and job-creating growth and advancing towards the completion of the Economic and Monetary Union."
Page 5:
"In the medium term, we should work towards a more integrated approach for EU internal security, based on the following measures: creation of a European plat-form for intelligence cooperation, fully respecting national prerogatives and using the current frameworks (e.g. CTG); improvement of data exchange; European contingency planning for major crisis scenarios affecting several member states; creation of a European response capability; establishment of a European civil protection corps." Is this the EU Army that @Danishfurniturelover mentioned a few days ago?
"In the longer term, it would make sense to enlarge the scope of the European public prosecutor’s office in future (currently limited to prosecuting offenses con-cerning the EU’s financial interests) to include fighting terrorism and organised crime. This would require harmonisation of criminal law among the member states."
Page 6:
"Securing our external border is no longer exclusively a national task but also a common responsibility. We are determined that the EU should establish the world’s first multinational border and coast guard. In the short term, FRONTEX will be manned by mean of secondments from member states. France and Germany should propose a joint contribution to that end. Over the medium term FRONTEX should be scaled up not only in terms of having its own permanent staff but also with adequate technical equipment to fulfil this task."
Page 7:
"To this day, our common currency constitutes the most visible and ambitious under-taking of European unification. The euro has helped protect its member states from international speculation and contributed to building a common economic area. The euro reflects our commitment to the irreversibility of European integration."
So Brexit or no Brexit, the show must go on...
tynesidespur
Terry Yorath
Surely there are no other viable options on the right of politics?
Of course mine is a wasted vote anyway up here in the North!
That's some seriously scary stuff. I'd take a few years of financial turmoil over that any day of the week.
You're right, there aren't. That's why it's so important she doesn't win the leadership contest.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Point one, you are right that is is too early to say what the medium and long term impact will be, but according to some of the scare stories spread around before and after the vote you would think we would be dead and buried already. History shows that the pound and the markets are bouncing about all the time so nothing new there.
Point two, i am not going to trawl through this thread but they have been a lot of things said ( from different sources) saying that the world is not going to end and we will not be in a mess ( Mervyn King being one) who said that there is a lot of scaremongering going on and people should not panic. So it all honesty are you not doing the same thing you are accusing us of? ie you are only listening to the voices that support your position?
I disagree, the media is giving a distorting impression. There isn't a huge slump in the markets like it's been reported, not even at the levels we saw in the 2008 financial crisis!
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
This kind thinking is a bigger threat to the EU than brexit will ever be. German and French people do not, have not and never will share a common destiny or set of values.
Don't they get it yet?
wiziwig
Steed Malbranque
It's all gone selfism and very few in Britisn politics care about stuff like that any more.
We get to see the NeoLiberal Hipster Youth, blindly stand side by side with companies such as Goldman Sachs and the other people that gave us the 2008 financial crash.
The Neo Liberal Hipster Youth, pour their scorn on the indeginous old people and on the uneducated menial worker of their nation, all in favour for the internationalist globalist agenda.
You couldn't make it up, we live in topsy-turvy times. We get to see those dullurds such as, the Anti Fascist and SWP, even the Anarchists too, venting their anger on the Leave vote. Well done Soros, good work.
Not a peep from those that call themselves democratic socialist, regarding the destruction of the hopes, of large swathes of young people across Europe, due to the monerterist policies of the undemocratic Imperial Superstate, whilst their envious eyes fixated on the pensions of Mr and Mrs Kinnock.
Worrying times.
So Boris pulls out because Gove stepped in it seems.
Fox wouldn't be a bad choice but those same disgusting arseholes in the press who went for him last time would do so again.
Fox wouldn't be a bad choice but those same disgusting arseholes in the press who went for him last time would do so again.
wiziwig
Steed Malbranque
Hotshot-Tottenham
Edgar Davids
What a catalyst you turned out to be,
Loaded the guns and you run off home for your tea.
The Eton Rifle.
It's all about perspective.
Look at a 1yr 250 graph - things look OK. Not great, but OK.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
I think we have to understand that the UK Brexit vote is NOT what the EU Powers that be wanted on so many levels, least of all encouraging other States to think about exiting the EU and making the planned Political Union of Europe harder.
It has to be expected that the Powers that be that have a vested interest in the creation of the European Superstate will indeed punish us here in the UK for it to:
a) show others "don't f with the EU"
b) cause a re-vote to stay in, or push a new PM to NOT enact article 50 and keep UK in the EU
It is likely that in the time between now and whenever a PM eventually beings the process of enacting article 50 that the Economic punishment will come.
There was a discussion i heard from someone who used to work for the US treasury as well as several Academic roles that aid that the Federal Reserve, EU Bank and Bank of Japan will likely club together to manipulate currency stocks in such a way that the value of the pound plummets.
This would be then be used to push for an even greater uproar and a case for the next PM to get the UK back in the EU.
I'll see if i can find that again as the person very much tread into some fascinating Geopolitical theory on top of this.
So @milo , @The Portugeezer , @parklane1 and others it's too early to say one way or another that Brexit has not effected the markets, but it is inevitable that there will be some attempt at waging Economic warfare on the UK to get us back into the EU.
So probably it's time for us all to hold on to your hats; the powers that be will NOT take this democratic vote lightly!
It has to be expected that the Powers that be that have a vested interest in the creation of the European Superstate will indeed punish us here in the UK for it to:
a) show others "don't f with the EU"
b) cause a re-vote to stay in, or push a new PM to NOT enact article 50 and keep UK in the EU
It is likely that in the time between now and whenever a PM eventually beings the process of enacting article 50 that the Economic punishment will come.
There was a discussion i heard from someone who used to work for the US treasury as well as several Academic roles that aid that the Federal Reserve, EU Bank and Bank of Japan will likely club together to manipulate currency stocks in such a way that the value of the pound plummets.
This would be then be used to push for an even greater uproar and a case for the next PM to get the UK back in the EU.
I'll see if i can find that again as the person very much tread into some fascinating Geopolitical theory on top of this.
So @milo , @The Portugeezer , @parklane1 and others it's too early to say one way or another that Brexit has not effected the markets, but it is inevitable that there will be some attempt at waging Economic warfare on the UK to get us back into the EU.
So probably it's time for us all to hold on to your hats; the powers that be will NOT take this democratic vote lightly!
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Boris has jumped/Ben pushed because he won't will a general election.
Something labour and corbyn should take note of.
Something labour and corbyn should take note of.