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Politics, politics, politics

I think a special mention must go to Nigel Farage. Not everyone'scup of tea and I think at times he has done more harm then good, I also do not believe he has the stage craft to be a politician.

But at times it was only him that was standing up to Brussels, without him the government would never have given the option to the people to decide their future. A life times work has come to fruition and he can place himself as one of the great political campaigners whether you like him or not hr achieved something so many said was impossible and against so many who shouted and abused him, against the bureaucrats who lied to him year after year in Brussels. Farage...the hero of democracy.
 
SpurMeUp said:
But you get the impression many only understand the implications of Leave now we've voted.
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That may well be because the majority of expert opinion from the Remain side was effectively preceded with "Now listen hear, you provincial uneducated bigots, the rich folks in the capital are trying to explain something to you in very simple terms..."
 
SpurMeUp said:
Where have the Leave leaders gone? All those who preached Leave have laid too low for my liking. What a fuking shambles. All they have said is we don't want to leave right now!! Remain for a while :eek:
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Probably sick to death of hearing the moaning and bitching by some because they did not get the result they wanted.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I think a special mention must go to Nigel Farage. Not everyone'scup of tea and I think at times he has done more harm then good, I also do not believe he has the stage craft to be a politician.

But at times it was only him that was standing up to Brussels, without him the government would never have given the option to the people to decide their future. A life times work has come to fruition and he can place himself as one of the great political campaigners whether you like him or not hr achieved something so many said was impossible and against so many who shouted and abused him, against the bureaucrats who lied to him year after year in Brussels. Farage...the hero of democracy.
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Out of curiosity, what yard stick do Leave voters measure Brexit by? For those that voted Leave, what will be a happy Brexit for you? What will it look like?

The Brexit Farage would like to see differs probably quite a bit from say Boris Johnson and Gove's vision. What would be your ideal scenario?
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
Personally, Farage's 4am triumphalism niggled me.

Apparently I'm not an ordinary, decent or good person for wanting to remain. Apparently no shots were fired.

I think perhaps the feeling of inequity that some of the Remainers have is down to the type of campaign that Leave ran. The spin and misinformation seemed rife. It got distilled down to immigration. And now we have the backtracking from the likes of Hannan. Some of the Leavers were sold a pig in a poke.

And then the reports of the regretful Leavers; anecdotal, sure, but enough different examples to crop up on multiple news outlets to become a theme.

I'm personally incredulous that people voted Leave when they didn't really want to, that they didn't think it would make a difference, that they thought it would be a protest vote, that they readily admit they didn't know what they were doing or the effect it would have.

And I'm angry at Cameron for promising the referendum to protect his own interests. He was complacent and arrogant. I don't think matters of this complexity and importance should be directly left to the people.

And when we're told to deal with it, live with it, get on with it - you must remember that this is something permanent. It's not a general election where we get another go in 5 years time. This is it now. So a little humility from the Leave campaign, perhaps even a little compassion might just go some way to toning down the rhetoric and the response.
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left wing media being sore losers, at least we know where the kids get it from.

the shot being fired was clearly a reference to the past when countries wanted to self govern it always got violent, India etc.

So because your side lost people should not get to decide on things, maybe we should do away with general elections as the public are to thick to understand anything. I am told how education standards have stopped and I suppose the high turnout for remain would back that up.
 
There's a lot of tit-for-tat going on in this thread right now. And whilst all opinions are valid and there are considered points, I think we are all in danger of going into the territory that we are berating others for on social media etc. There are sore losers and sore winners, when what should be happening now is discussing what is the best way forward. As someone mentioned earlier, this referendum means squat unless the decision is made to leave or stay.

Also, my avatar is Putin on a bear, so don't fudge with me.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I liked your post. Then you edited it and started banging on about youth (so unliked it). Fair points before that. This expresses the issue with the old determining the young's future and does it with some humour. The author cites his Mum who ask him how he wanted her to vote, as "she'd be dead soon".

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/wrinklies-have-well-and-truly-stitched-us-up-qfz509cz8

Some exerts:

For make no mistake, it is the old people who did this to us. I assume you have seen the voting breakdown by age? In the 18-24 group it was 64 per cent to Remain and 24 per cent to Leave. In the 25-49 age group it was 45 per cent to 39. Only in the 50-64 bracket does the balance shift, going over to 49 per cent for Leave, as against 35 for Remain. And then among the over-65s it was an astonishing 58 per cent for Leave, against 33 per cent for Remain.

The less time a person had left on earth to live and face up to their decision, in other words, the more likely they were to vote to leave the European Union.

The wrinkly bastards stitched us young ’uns up good and proper on Thursday. From their stairlifts and their zimmer frames, their electric recliner beds and their walk-in baths, they reached out with their wizened old writing hands to make their wobbly crosses and screwed their children and their children’s children for a thousand generations.

The older people get, the more they think they have earned the right to do and think whatever they damn well please. And this leads to their being wrong. About everything. Not just about elasticated waistbands, brightly coloured outerwear, fluffy little pale blue hairdos, big chunky spectacles, beige trousers,Countdown and young people today. About everything.

And then of course there is immigration. A report for the World Bank in 2012 found that, “It is old people everywhere who oppose immigration the most, across the board. In every country for which we have data (except Sweden) older natives disproportionately oppose immigration, regardless of income, education and employment status.”

And don’t go telling me that we owe at least a debt of respect to the elderly. Respect for what? Don’t confuse the elderly of today with the elderly of the recent past. This lot did not fight a war (not many of them). They didn’t free us from the yoke of tyranny. They didn’t live in modesty and hardship and hunger so that future generations might thrive. They just enjoyed high employment, good pay, fat benefits, enormous pension privileges, international travel, the birth of pop music and lashings of free sex. We don’t owe them a thing. We should cut them off. Rewrite the franchise to start at 16 and end at 60 and do this thing all over again.
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The last paragraph is the most sensible thing I've read for a long time and I say this as someone approaching 70, unfortunately the young who should be concerned with the future are not interested, they just want to have a larf and get on their smart phone or appear on YouTube showing parts of their body. I can understand how people are disillusioned with politicians and the process as only minority groups appear to get anything out of them, but if you don't get engaged thats what happens.
 
richie_spur said:
That may well be because the majority of expert opinion from the Remain side was effectively preceded with "Now listen hear, you provincial uneducated bigots, the rich folks in the capital are trying to explain something to you in very simple terms..."
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It does make you wonder if some of those who did look for the change needed would have voted out if they knew that the bitching and crying by those who lost ' (a democratic vote) on the remain side would be such a whine.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
left wing media being sore losers, at least we know where the kids get it from.

the shot being fired was clearly a reference to the past when countries wanted to self govern it always got violent, India etc.

So because your side lost people should not get to decide on things, maybe we should do away with general elections as the public are to thick to understand anything. I am told how education standards have stopped and I suppose the high turnout for remain would back that up.
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*too

No, I disagree with referenda generally. It's nigh on impossible for those on either side to fully grasp something this involved and its implications. A one-off referendum is hardly the same as a regular GE.

With regard to the bullet comment, he was so carried away with hubris he forgot the massively relevant, huge news story from the previous week. What a guy.

I don't follow your first comment. Been a long week, admittedly.
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
I think perhaps the feeling of inequity that some of the Remainers have is down to the type of campaign that Leave ran. The spin and misinformation seemed rife. It got distilled down to immigration. And now we have the backtracking from the likes of Hannan. Some of the Leavers were sold a pig in a poke.

And when we're told to deal with it, live with it, get on with it - you must remember that this is something permanent. It's not a general election where we get another go in 5 years time. This is it now. So a little humility from the Leave campaign, perhaps even a little compassion might just go some way to toning down the rhetoric and the response.
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To be fair this is a post all joking aside that I get

I think the trap is that people are judging the quality of 17m people on the leave campaign and that is where my lengthy post comes into it because I hand on heart believe a large % were leave, campaign or no campaign. I think in may place, right or wrong, the leave vote was ingrained in people, especially up north since the days of Maggie T (thats a deep theory for another day).

I agree there were people that voted leave without knowing the full facts and now regret, but you are only going to hear about them in this level of decision, I know at least a dozen people who had no view who voted remain and I would hazard a guess the numbers remain vacuumed up from undecided or not bothered was huge.

My reaction of deal with it purely comes from the reaction to the vote, I am not from the land of rubbing peoples nose in it, nor have I seen it, but when socially you read things like "you idiots what have you done" and you hear the press call it "hate over fear" then there is a defense factor aswell.

Personally and seriously I will take a leaf from remain, Great Britain, together we are stronger so lets unite and build a great country. Believe it or not my vote was purely for the future
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
left wing media being sore losers, at least we know where the kids get it from.

the shot being fired was clearly a reference to the past when countries wanted to self govern it always got violent, India etc.

So because your side lost people should not get to decide on things, maybe we should do away with general elections as the public are to thick to understand anything. I am told how education standards have stopped and I suppose the high turnout for remain would back that up.
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Which 'left wing media' ? There isn't much left to compete with Herr Murdoch.
 
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