• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

SpurMeUp said:
And that is exactly my point. Why would a PM deliver out the EU, without regard to the interests of the country? @Grays_1890 that is what he is suggesting.

MPs likewise will have to vote on Brexit changes. If they also believe actions are in the interests of the UK (but not Brexit) which course do they follow?

Far from simple.
Click to expand...
In order to become PM a referendum had to be offered. Ever since the EU fudged us on the Lisbon "treaty" it's been a requirement for a huge number of voters.

Clegg and Cameron both backed a referendum in 2010 and it helped them run the country. Somehow they managed to delay it, but promising one in 2015 was part of what got Cameron in again.

I think a more important question is what chance did anyone have without a referendum?
 
scaramanga said:
In order to become PM a referendum had to be offered. Ever since the EU fudgeed us on the Lisbon "treaty" it's been a requirement for a huge number of voters.

Clegg and Cameron both backed a referendum in 2010 and it helped them run the country. Somehow they managed to delay it, but promising one in 2015 was part of what got Cameron in again.

I think a more important question is what chance did anyone have without a referendum?
Click to expand...

with hindsight the Tories will be kicking themselves, they were in a better position than they knew and would have won without offering the referendum
 
As a leaver i have been doing my job of rounding up all foreign persons in my area. It was a little sad seeing the back of the wife and some life long friends, but of course it had to be done. Must gut wrenching was putting my son on the train as he is half Irish but I consoled myself I was doing just work. Also with the trains round here he won't actually fudging get anywhere.

All the remain people have told me we are getting rid of foreigners, they tell me this while putting on a thick working class accent. As they hate the working class I do not think they are joking.

I am slightly worried I jumped the gun, also without the wife I got to cook my own dinner. Would have gone down the takeaway but myself and two bald guys I know who I assume are racist as they are bald rounded up the people from the takeaways and sent them packing.




@ remain people, calm down the above is a joke, just like you lot thinking everyone hates foreign born nationals because we want to govern ourselves.
 
galeforce said:
with hindsight the Tories will be kicking themselves, they were in a better position than they knew and would have won without offering the referendum
Click to expand...
I don't know, it was pretty close.

It wouldn't take a huge swing in some of the marginal seats where UKIP voters tactically voted Tory to take away such a small majority.
 

@Grays_1890 has your position changed from your last post:

"No one has to implement or decide on a promise, they just have to steer the government into a non EU situation..."

My point was the PM very much has to decide on a promise. If you were the PM or an MP how would you implement Brexit? Is reduced immigration what you deliver, or removal from the single market? No one defined what Brexit looks like. We don't even have an PM to have a hint at what Brexit might look like.

It's funny you should compare it to leading a country through and out of war. Maybe a bit dramatic, but probably no less easy. At least with a war you have national unity. The new PM will face sever fractions with Scotland and London wishing to leave the union.

Re. Promises, you are effectively saying that people have been duped? That all the talk of Brexit delivering were a sham?
"Any statements or in your words promises made by ANYONE outside the government should have been taken as they were and on the authority of who said them." Oh dear, the government made statements that Brexit would be bad. Others outside government campaigned fervently that it would not, are you saying if people believed these claims and voted Leave, they are not "grown ups" and believed false claims from people who had no authority?

This whole scenario is ridiculous. How democratic is it, when people are voting for things that no one in power is offering?

2m and counting on the government website vote. Mostly young people who want a positive future.
 
Last edited:
At my sister's children's school they were teaching them that if we voted out a war would start. 12 & 9 year olds for fcuks sake. Did not realize the level people had dropped to. Kind of her own fault for marrying a taco and sending her kids to state school.
 
"It's funny you should compare it to leading a country through and out of war"

Forums annoy me for this reason, I never compared it to leading a country through war, I just gave it as an example of duty.

"Oh dear, the government made statements that Brexit would be bad"

The Government gave people the vote, are you saying that they were only prepared for one outcome? Remain? Maybe Camerons actions prove that because leave was a very possible outcome, it was because it happened.

But it is down to the Conservative Party to lead the country now, however that looks, its their job, its their duty as the elected party that gave people the vote on the referendum

Youth reference that keeps cropping up

Its easy to keep referencing the youth wanting to protect their future but its such a poor argument because they firstly have no experience in what it has been like to live in the UK in the past in order to make a more informed call on the future. I am not at all discounting them as a voice at all but again WHAT right does anyone have to knock the 50+ vote, effectively to say old people have no idea what they are talking about shows just how juvenile the younger demographic can be.

Firstly if the youth had such a clue why is the average age of a UK politician 50?

Secondly you think these people care more about themselves than say their parents? You really saying that the 50+ are saying "I am ok sod my kids" because talking from being a father no sane person does that, so infact the 50+ vote should be more respected for the experience and thought process attached to the vote. Its laughable that people are saying that people voted on the basis of "I dont care I dont have long to live" thats just laughable, I am laughing typing it. Ignore the fact it comes from experience just to make a point. I would argue that the youth are more aware of their options and take a GREATER carefree view to voting
 
Last edited:
Grays_1890 said:
But it is down to the Conservative Party to lead the country now, however that looks, its their job, its their duty as the elected party that gave people the vote on the referendum
Click to expand...

yep

I do hope that people remember that the party won the election not David Cameron, when they elect a new leader they are the PM, with no less a mandate than DC
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
As a leaver i have been doing my job of rounding up all foreign persons in my area. It was a little sad seeing the back of the wife and some life long friends, but of course it had to be done. Must gut wrenching was putting my son on the train as he is half Irish but I consoled myself I was doing just work. Also with the trains round here he won't actually fudgeing get anywhere.

All the remain people have told me we are getting rid of foreigners, they tell me this while putting on a thick working class accent. As they hate the working class I do not think they are joking.

I am slightly worried I jumped the gun, also without the wife I got to cook my own dinner. Would have gone down the takeaway but myself and two bald guys I know who I assume are racist as they are bald rounded up the people from the takeaways and sent them packing.




@ remain people, calm down the above is a joke, just like you lot thinking everyone hates foreign born nationals because we want to govern ourselves.
Click to expand...

Haha, that made me chuckle. To play Devil's Advocate, not everyone on the Remain side thinks that everyone on the Leave side hates foreigners/immigrants etc. However, there is an undoubted concern that this result has given the extreme right impetus to consolidate their views and hatred. They see this as a victory for them, and that is scary because it gives them a feeling that their views are at the forefront of this situation now. You only have to look at certain groups online to see how they are using this to their advantage to promote hatred and incite violence.

On the flipside, it is very sad to see some 'Remainers', who would be first to jump to the defence of every day Muslims compared to extremism (and rightly so), behaving in the same way when it comes to 'Leavers' and extremists on the other side.
 
Grays_1890 said:
"It's funny you should compare it to leading a country through and out of war"

Forums annoy me for this reason, I never compared it to leading a country through war, I just gave it as an example of duty.

"Oh dear, the government made statements that Brexit would be bad"

The Government gave people the vote, are you saying that they were only prepared for one outcome? Remain? Maybe Camerons actions prove that because leave was a very possible outcome, it was because it happened.

But it is down to the Conservative Party to lead the country now, however that looks, its their job, its their duty as the elected party that gave people the vote on the referendum

Youth reference that keeps cropping up

Its easy to keep referencing the youth wanting to protect their future but its such a poor argument because they firstly have no experience in what it has been like to live in the UK in the past in order to make a more informed call on the future. I am not at all discounting them as a voice at all but again WHAT right does anyone have to knock the 50+ vote, effectively to say old people have no idea what they are talking about shows just how juvenile the younger demographic can be.

Firstly if the youth had such a clue why is the average age of a UK politician 50?

Secondly you think these people care more about themselves than say their parents? You really saying that the 50+ are saying "I am ok sod my kids" because talking from being a father no sane person does that, so infact the 50+ vote should be more respected for the experience and thought process attached to the vote. Its laughable that people are saying that people voted on the basis of "I dont care I dont have long to live" thats just laughable, I am laughing typing it. Ignore the fact it comes from experience just to make a point. I would argue that the youth are more aware of their options and take a GREATER carefree view to voting
Click to expand...

I liked your post. Then you edited it and started banging on about youth (so unliked it). Fair points before that. This expresses the issue with the old determining the young's future and does it with some humour. The author cites his Mum who ask him how he wanted her to vote, as "she'd be dead soon".

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/wrinklies-have-well-and-truly-stitched-us-up-qfz509cz8

Some exerts:

For make no mistake, it is the old people who did this to us. I assume you have seen the voting breakdown by age? In the 18-24 group it was 64 per cent to Remain and 24 per cent to Leave. In the 25-49 age group it was 45 per cent to 39. Only in the 50-64 bracket does the balance shift, going over to 49 per cent for Leave, as against 35 for Remain. And then among the over-65s it was an astonishing 58 per cent for Leave, against 33 per cent for Remain.

The less time a person had left on earth to live and face up to their decision, in other words, the more likely they were to vote to leave the European Union.

The wrinkly bastards stitched us young ’uns up good and proper on Thursday. From their stairlifts and their zimmer frames, their electric recliner beds and their walk-in baths, they reached out with their wizened old writing hands to make their wobbly crosses and screwed their children and their children’s children for a thousand generations.

The older people get, the more they think they have earned the right to do and think whatever they damn well please. And this leads to their being wrong. About everything. Not just about elasticated waistbands, brightly coloured outerwear, fluffy little pale blue hairdos, big chunky spectacles, beige trousers,Countdown and young people today. About everything.

And then of course there is immigration. A report for the World Bank in 2012 found that, “It is old people everywhere who oppose immigration the most, across the board. In every country for which we have data (except Sweden) older natives disproportionately oppose immigration, regardless of income, education and employment status.”

And don’t go telling me that we owe at least a debt of respect to the elderly. Respect for what? Don’t confuse the elderly of today with the elderly of the recent past. This lot did not fight a war (not many of them). They didn’t free us from the yoke of tyranny. They didn’t live in modesty and hardship and hunger so that future generations might thrive. They just enjoyed high employment, good pay, fat benefits, enormous pension privileges, international travel, the birth of pop music and lashings of free sex. We don’t owe them a thing. We should cut them off. Rewrite the franchise to start at 16 and end at 60 and do this thing all over again.
 
scaramanga said:
In order to become PM a referendum had to be offered. Ever since the EU fudgeed us on the Lisbon "treaty" it's been a requirement for a huge number of voters.

Clegg and Cameron both backed a referendum in 2010 and it helped them run the country. Somehow they managed to delay it, but promising one in 2015 was part of what got Cameron in again.

I think a more important question is what chance did anyone have without a referendum?
Click to expand...

This maybe true. But it is history. Does it have any implications for how Brexit is negotiated and defined?
 
The elderly deserve respect for the fact like in my circumstance not only did they bring into the world my parents, my parents did the same for me and I will continue to do the same for my kids, so working in the UK to bring up a family, whilst working, whilst contributing deserves every ounce of respect in my opinion.

For the benefit of this argument my father voted remain and falls into the old category, so the blanket argument of the old voting for one reason falls into the same place as the blanket argument that all leavers are racist....The sore losers bin

Maybe all this retrospective knowledge that everyone has should have been used in the campaign ???????????????????????????????????????????
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
This maybe true. But it is history. Does it have any implications for how Brexit is negotiated and defined?
Click to expand...
This is why Cameron should have stayed.

As he was going anyway he could have agreed free trade and free movement of people and got away with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back