Politics, politics, politics

[SpurMeUp]

Focusing on people like that is wrong and you know it. There's a lot more to the leave camp than solely immigration.

For example?

Is it wrong that immigration is the main issue? We need honesty. If someone was taking my job, or immigration meant I earned less, I would put immigration front and centre. It would be key as far as I was concerned. Its not wrong to do that.

 

[Baleforce]

I'm no expert but the way I see it we are lumped with an immigration system which we don't believe in and in my opinion does not work - we should adopt the approach which countries like Australian and Canada take whereby if you have the required skills in the areas which we are lacking then welcome aboard - what we have is freedom of movement where unskilled people come here in high numbers and flood job markets which don't need filling, which drives wages down and British people out of jobs...

Every country needs healthy immigration to improve itself, but it needs to be managed properly for it to work, for all involved

I'm pro immigration, but not how it appears to be handled here in GB


Like I say I'm no expert, Im just offering my view on things

I was told that I was racist when I said the same as you in that we should adopt a similar strategy as Australia. If you're of benefit to us as a nation then please join us if not kindly stay where you are so I'm interested to see if you receive a similar reply.

but it is working, it's a boost to the economy

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ion-fuelling-george-osbornes-comeback-country

 

[billyiddo]

I was told that I was racist when I said the same as you in that we should adopt a similar strategy as Australia. If you're of benefit to us as a nation then please join us if not kindly stay where you are so I'm interested to see if you receive a similar reply.

The funny thing is IMO it's the talking down to people who have held this view over the last 10-20 years rather than listening to them and taking on board their worries which has brought us to this point - had we altered our approach to immigration then this referendum wouldn't have even come about

 

[Roy1983]

For example?

Is it wrong that immigration is the main issue? We need honesty. If someone was taking my job, and meant I earned less, I would put immigration front and centre. Its not wrong to do that.

It certainly isn't wrong no.

For many immigration was key. Rightly so it's damaging our nation. However, many remember this country pre EU. I don't however so voted leave in the hope we can govern ourselves, save billions a year and negotiate our own deals with who we decide we want to.

 

[parklane1]

Focusing on people like that is wrong and you know it. There's a lot more to the leave camp than solely immigration.

Of course its wrong but get with the program mate, all those who voted out are racist inclined ( or so a lot of those who voted remain suggest)

 

[SpurMeUp]

The funny thing is IMO it's the talking down to people who have held this view over the last 10-20 years rather than listening to them and taking on board their worries which has brought us to this point - had we altered our approach to immigration then this referendum wouldn't have even come about

It's a tricky one. Immigration helps the economy. No doubt. Scara's Manager in his company is Polish. If she wasn't there a Brit would have been. Yet for his company she's an asset. But for the Brit who didn't get that job, they are understandably not keen on EU immigration. What else does the EU bring them, having lost out on a promotion? Higher housing costs? No much else truth be told.

Remain didn't articulate benefits to people or address their real concerns regarding pay, work, aspiration, immigration. Didn't connect and get people onside with a vision for GB. Leave didn't need people to understand, it needed an emotional response, one that backs your own, your own people - which is a very compelling and noble thing to vote for.

Amazing how people can see it all in hindsight

 

[Baleforce]

For example?

Is it wrong that immigration is the main issue? We need honesty. If someone was taking my job, or immigration meant I earned less, I would put immigration front and centre. It would be key as far as I was concerned. Its not wrong to do that.

double quote so just checking, do you want examples of those three groups?

the leave campaign blatantly lied about the 350m funding to the NHS

many news outlets are quoting many leave voters who today regret their choice as they didn't think leave could win

the bnp were full of self congratulation this morning, is it a leap to assume some members voted for reasons of bigotry?



nothing wrong with making anything the main issue if people are bothered by it, don't ignore logic and reason though

 

[Roy1983]

The funny thing is IMO it's the talking down to people who have held this view over the last 10-20 years rather than listening to them and taking on board their worries which has brought us to this point - had we altered our approach to immigration then this referendum wouldn't have even come about

I remember 20 plus years ago, bearing in mind we've lived in Enfield and Tottenham, my parents and school friends parents forecasting that immigration would become a negative issue. Here we are.

 

[Baleforce]

Of course its wrong but get with the program mate, all those who voted out are racist inclined ( or so a lot of those who voted remain suggest)

do you not think right wing ideology was a factor in this referendum at any level?

 

[Glenda's Legs]

@Glenda's Legs thanks for your reply although I disagree that by leaving we'll surrender our right to deport illegal immigrants I'm sure we'll have more powers to and rightly so.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - we will of course continue to have the right to expel illegal immigrants, and rightly so, but we may lose some of the arrangements that come with our EU membership, such as returning illegal immigrants to their EU port of entry and passport control located in Calais (edit : and Eurostar terminus in Paris).

 

[SpurMeUp]

double quote so just checking, do you want examples of those three groups?

the leave campaign blatantly lied about the 350m funding to the NHS

many news outlets are quoting many leave voters who today regret their choice as they didn't think leave could win

the bnp were full of self congratulation this morning, is it a leap to assume some members voted for reasons of bigotry?



nothing wrong with making anything the main issue if people are bothered by it, don't ignore logic and reason though

And I agree in the main. Farrage himself said the 350 was a mistake didn't he? Truth is, you are ignoring logic and reason if you can't see why 52% voted leave. There is their logic and reason. Try and see it. It may not be academic evidence based, but it made sense, it resonated. Politics is more about this than logic.

 

[Baleforce]

And I agree in the main. Farrage himself said the 350 was a mistake didn't he? Truth is, you are ignoring logic and reason if you can't see why 52% voted leave. There is their logic and reason. Try and see it. It may not be academic evidence based, but it made sense, it resonated. Politics is more about this than logic.

I can see why, I'm offering my opinion on how that happened

pretty big mistake by the way, they printed it on the side of a bus

 

[Roy1983]

Of course its wrong but get with the program mate, all those who voted out are racist inclined ( or so a lot of those who voted remain suggest)

Indeed. I've sensed a lot of 'high horsery' and a general sense of being better from remainers today. Not on here in general. Not good.

 

[Roy1983]

I can see why, I'm offering my opinion on how that happened

pretty big mistake by the way, they printed it on the side of a bus

I don't think it was a mistake. The figures show we give £350m a day to the EU. That money will be spent on our own issues somewhere I don't think anyone really thought every penny would go to the NHS that'd be ludicrous.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I can see why, I'm offering my opinion on how that happened

pretty big mistake by the way, they printed it on the side of a bus

Not for those that wanted out.

Look I agree with all your points more or less. But we need to get on with it now. Three things:

1) Leaving the EU is far from a done deal. Much to be negotiated and worked out.

2) Some change can be a good thing. Being stale is the worst condition. Shaking things up can be beneficial, whether in your own life or in a nations.

3) You are free. You can, for the moment at least, move to any country in Europe. Funny that Roy would like to move to Spain a vote to remain would allow anyone to flit between Spain and the UK. But its likely we'll still have some agreements with the EU, and be able to live and work there, not that much will change. I hope not anyway.

 

[parklane1]

I don't think it was a mistake. The figures show we give £350m a day to the EU. That money will be spent on our own issues somewhere I don't think anyone really thought every penny would go to the NHS that'd be ludicrous.

I say it again mate get with the program, as you say i fail to see how ANY one with average intelligence could suggest that is what he meant. Strange that folks are doing just that though.

 

[Roy1983]

Not for those that wanted out.

Look I agree with all your points more or less. But we need to get on with it now. Three things:

1) Leaving the EU is far from a done deal. Much to be negotiated and worked out.

2) Some change can be a good thing. Being stale is the worst condition. Shaking things up can be beneficial, whether in your own life or in a nations.

3) You are free. You can, for the moment at least, move to any country in Europe. Funny that Roy would like to move to Spain a vote to remain would allow anyone to flit between Spain and the UK. But its likely we'll still have some agreements with the EU, and be able to live and work there, not that much will change. I hope not anyway.

My aim was always to buy an apartment in Spain outright and own my own bar. Leaving the EU hasn't changed anything from my POV. I'm 32 and around 8-10 years from my dream.

 

[parklane1]

do you not think right wing ideology was a factor in this referendum at any level?

I voted out and i can assure you there was no right wing ideology in that decision at all alas i can not speak for others as it was not me who made their vote. However you seem to believe you can tell why others voted that way you obviously have a rare talent to be able to do that.

 

[Baleforce]

I don't think it was a mistake. The figures show we give £350m a day to the EU. That money will be spent on our own issues somewhere I don't think anyone really thought every penny would go to the NHS that'd be ludicrous.

the figures also show that 190m of it is channeled straight back

i'm sure it was taken at face (bus?) value somewhere

 

[Baleforce]

I voted out and i can assure you there was no right wing ideology in that decision at all alas i can not speak for others as it was not me who made their vote. However you seem to believe you can tell why others voted that way you obviously have a rare talent to be able to do that.

are you going to answer the question?

I'm not questioning your motivations at all by the way, I don't think everyone who voted leave is a fascist either, but I do think there is an element there