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Politics, politics, politics

the numbers are all in this thread (mostly posted by @milo), services are struggling due to an ageing population

immigration is a net win for the uk, in 2013 the OBR reported that we needed more immigration to help aleviate the strain

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ts-to-reduce-strain-of-ageing-population.html


I was wondering when someone else would bring up that excuse, of course we have got a aging population but that is not the problem on/in its self. Some can not just accept that the vote has been done, everyone has had their chance to make their mark now the country needs to get together and move on to better things. It seems some are just poor losers and can not accept that they are in the minority. ( according to the RESULT)
 
What would you class as pure? I was born in Enfield, England. So were both my parents and all 4 of my grandparents.

I liked your post, because its honest, its how you feel. And politicians, certainly the remain side, are guilty of not finding out how people really feel. So caught up in banks, economics etc, they forgot to understand how people really feel and address it. When people vote, they represent themselves. Of course. And if you're fighting for jobs with EU immigrants, can't afford housing in this overpopulated city, don't travel abroad much or at all, then that it is a totally understandable vote. Shame Cameron and friends didn't understand. UKIP and leave certainly did. People on here should be able to see it from both sides.

The problem is, as you say Roy, no one really thinks politicians will deliver on the promises. Out of 650 odd MPs only about 160 believe in Brexit. And even those that believe, have different positions, some in favour of partial remain.

But to address your quote, there isn't such a thing as a pure Brit. The Angles mixed with the Germanic Saxons (Anglo-Saxon), who were diluted by French and Scandinavian peoples (Normans and Vikings). You, as 'pure' are a mix of European genes.
 
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I was wondering when someone else would bring up that excuse, of course we have got a aging population but that is not the problem on/in its self. Some can not just accept that the vote has been done, everyone has had their chance to make their mark now the country needs to get together and move on to better things. It seems some are just poor losers and can not accept that they are in the minority. ( according to the RESULT)

in what way am I not accepting it?

am I screaming about hanging chads and demanding a recount?

I'm merely admitting my bitterness (I was asked) and bemoaning the situation, airing my concerns on a discussion forum, is that not what GG is for?

I'm concerned the situation can not lead onto better things but merely the re-treading of a terrible path
 
Again very easily answered. Those migrants who have bypassed a dozen countries to get to England in search of a better life. Support them when they need it yes but only until they can be safely returned.

Also, I'd like to know what people think about the 20-30 year old generation who have come to England within the last 3/4 years and are yet to work. I'm not sure people realise just how many of these there are. I am aware that this is a small percentage in the grand scheme of things but it's a major problem I hope is now addressed.

I do understand your concerns. However looking at your first point above, when you talk about migrants who have bypassed several countries to arrive here, and who can be "safely returned" it seems (and forgive me if I misunderstand you) that you are talking about migrants from outside the EU? - ie. those from war torn areas who choose to come to the UK, or economic migrants from outside Europe? If that is the case, then I am not sure how that fits in with this particular referendum, where leaving the EU will have no impact on the scenarios you talk about. If you are talking about EU migration, then those migrants have not actually 'bypassed' any countries to be here. We will continue to have illegal immigrants, asylum seeker immigrants and legal immigrants from outside the EU, regardless of yesterday's vote.
The UK is definitely a magnet for immigration, in large part due to our generous benefits system but through being part of the EU, we do currently have the right to return illegal immigrants back to their original port of EU entry. That right will most likely disappear once we leave the EU. Additionally, France allows us to have our immigration control situated in Calais to check the credentials of all those coming across the Channel before they arrive here. That right is also likely to be removed post Brexit. So we are in danger of losing some existing safety nets. However the UK will remain attractive to immigrants regardless of our non-membership of the EU.
Acceptance of refugees is totally separate to membership of the EU. In fact the UK has - and has exercised - an opt out from the EU directive on quotas for settlement of Syrian refugees. The number we accept is at our own discretion, no one else's. I am proud that we can offer refuge to those in need but for those who are uncomfortable with this, it is a domestic matter, not an EU one.

Re your second paragraph, I honestly can't argue against your point as I do not know the numbers of 20-30 year olds who have come to the UK and never worked. However, one of the few concessions that David Cameron managed to achieve in his pre-Bexit negotiations was the right to withhold benefits from EU migrants residing here for less than a specified period of time ( xx number of years, I can't recall the exact detail). So some of your concerns would have been dealt with in any case.

Your opinion is equally as valid as anyone else's (especially when it come to Ryan Mason :) where we are in agreement) but I am not convinced that a Leave vote will result in any significant change to the immigration levels we have today.
 
Thing is, this works. Remain got it wholly wrong. It didn't connect. No one was really motivated in Remain. They probably didn't do focus groups etc. They all thought it would be cool. Whoops!

that it works is one thing I'm complaining about
 
I do understand your concerns. However looking at your first point above, when you talk about migrants who have bypassed several countries to arrive here, and who can be "safely returned" it seems (and forgive me if I misunderstand you) that you are talking about migrants from outside the EU? - ie. those from war torn areas who choose to come to the UK, or economic migrants from outside Europe? If that is the case, then I am not sure how that fits in with this particular referendum, where leaving the EU will have no impact on the scenarios you talk about. If you are talking about EU migration, then those migrants have not actually 'bypassed' any countries to be here. We will continue to have illegal immigrants, asylum seeker immigrants and legal immigrants from outside the EU, regardless of yesterday's vote.
The UK is definitely a magnet for immigration, in large part due to our generous benefits system but through being part of the EU, we do currently have the right to return illegal immigrants back to their original port of EU entry. That right will most likely disappear once we leave the EU. Additionally, France allows us to have our immigration control situated in Calais to check the credentials of all those coming across the Channel before they arrive here. That right is also likely to be removed post Brexit. So we are in danger of losing some existing safety nets. However the UK will remain attractive to immigrants regardless of our non-membership of the EU.
Acceptance of refugees is totally separate to membership of the EU. In fact the UK has - and has exercised - an opt out from the EU directive on quotas for settlement of Syrian refugees. The number we accept is at our own discretion, no one else's. I am proud that we can offer refuge to those in need but for those who are uncomfortable with this, it is a domestic matter, not an EU one.

Re your second paragraph, I honestly can't argue against your point as I do not know the numbers of 20-30 year olds who have come to the UK and never worked. However, one of the few concessions that David Cameron managed to achieve in his pre-Bexit negotiations was the right to withhold benefits from EU migrants residing here for less than a specified period of time ( xx number of years, I can't recall the exact detail). So some of your concerns would have been dealt with in any case.

Your opinion is equally as valid as anyone else's (especially when it come to Ryan Mason :) where we are in agreement) but I am not convinced that a Leave vote will result in any significant change to the immigration levels we have today.

Fantastic post. Could you tell this guy as well please:

 
that it works is one thing I'm complaining about

But that is to lament humanity. Why do you think people should understand dull dull dull economics and global politics? Why would you? A picture like that captures peoples fears and feelings. A projected % loss from some economic bank does nothing, connect with no one who voted leave. UKIP and others had been preparing for this chance, they knew what connected. They got it. Remain, well, no one wanted to go out on a limb apart from Cameron, and they didn't understand peoples genuine concerns. Real concerns. Real problems. They were ignored. UKIP didn't ignore them.

(Never mind that delivering on these promises may not be possible).
 
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But that is to lament humanity. Why do you think people should understand dull dull dull economics and global politics? Why would you? A picture like that captures peoples fears and feelings. A projected % loss from some economic bank does nothing, connect with no one who voted leave. UKIP and others had been preparing for this chance, they knew what connected. They got it. Remain, well, no one wanted to go out on a limb apart from Cameron, and they didn't understand peoples genuine concerns. Real concerns. Real problems. They were ignored. UKIP didn't ignore them.

(Never mind that delivering on these promises may not be possible).

exactly, but in this climate is such lament unreasonable, we come together and vote with aspiration surely?
 
I don't believe the answer is throwing up the shutters and turning our back, which I believe is the path we are now on

Britain is at breaking point all on its own, immigrants and refugees have not made things any worse, yet they are being used as a politcal piñata we can blame for everything
I'm no expert but the way I see it we are lumped with an immigration system which we don't believe in and in my opinion does not work - we should adopt the approach which countries like Australian and Canada take whereby if you have the required skills in the areas which we are lacking then welcome aboard - what we have is freedom of movement where unskilled people come here in high numbers and flood job markets which don't need filling, which drives wages down and British people out of jobs...

Every country needs healthy immigration to improve itself, but it needs to be managed properly for it to work, for all involved

I'm pro immigration, but not how it appears to be handled here in GB


Like I say I'm no expert, Im just offering my view on things
 
exactly, but in this climate is such lament unreasonable, we come together and vote with aspiration surely?

People did. Why should you as a voter understand economics, geo-politics, the egos in the Tory party etc etc. These are subjects that are as dull as you can get. People who voted Leave are extremely aspiring. They don't have a lot necessarily and want to change things for the better. They are not represented and haven't had much of a voice. They need something to aspire to and only UKIP offered something they can connect with. If you were in the same position, you'd feel the same. We all would. Hard to imagine that, to feel what it might be like, but true.
 
@Glenda's Legs thanks for your reply although I disagree that by leaving we'll surrender our right to deport illegal immigrants I'm sure we'll have more powers to and rightly so.
 
People did. Why should you as a voter understand economics, geo-politics, the egos in the Tory party etc etc. These are subjects that are as dull as you can get. People who voted Leave are extremely aspiring. They don't have a lot necessarily and want to change things for the better. They are not represented and haven't had much of a voice. They need something to aspire to and only UKIP offered something they can connect with. If you were in the same position, you'd feel the same. We all would. Hard to imagine that, to feel what it might be like, but true.

because that's what we are being asked our opinion on

let me be clear, my issue is with those who have deceived the electorate, those who have voted in Ill thought protest and of course those whose motivations are bigoted
 
I'm no expert but the way I see it we are lumped with an immigration system which we don't believe in and in my opinion does not work - we should adopt the approach which countries like Australian and Canada take whereby if you have the required skills in the areas which we are lacking then welcome aboard - what we have is freedom of movement where unskilled people come here in high numbers and flood job markets which don't need filling, which drives wages down and British people out of jobs...

Every country needs healthy immigration to improve itself, but it needs to be managed properly for it to work, for all involved

I'm pro immigration, but not how it appears to be handled here in GB


Like I say I'm no expert, Im just offering my view on things

I was told that I was racist when I said the same as you in that we should adopt a similar strategy as Australia. If you're of benefit to us as a nation then please join us if not kindly stay where you are so I'm interested to see if you receive a similar reply.
 
@Glenda's Legs thanks for your reply although I disagree that by leaving we'll surrender our right to deport illegal immigrants I'm sure we'll have more powers to and rightly so.

maybe, I do wonder about the logistics, we can't just put them in France anymore, do we just fly them all the way back, does that involve putting our forces in danger delivering them back into war zones?

I'll go and have a look at the leave campaigns literature, they must have thought of that
 
maybe, I do wonder about the logistics, we can't just put them in France anymore, do we just fly them all the way back, does that involve putting our forces in danger delivering them back into war zones?

I'll go and have a look at the leave campaigns literature, they must have thought of that

There are many logistics but the answer has to be they can't remain in our country indefinitely.
 
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