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Politics, politics, politics

glasgowspur said:
I don't care if it's Martians, if they are useful to our society, willing to contribute and there is room for them let them in.
Other side of the coin, I don't care if it's my friends or relatives if they aren't willing to contribute why should society pay for them.
For me it's one, if not the most depressing things about this whole saga, instead of trying to fix what everyone can see is wrong all the energy is being expended on name calling and finger pointing. It won't change because politicians are only concerned about getting re elected to stay on the gravy train.
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indianspur said:
I don't trust any politician tbh.

Just a few hours after the results we've had Farage backtrack about the 350 mill claim, a Tory mp has said that whatever happens he can give no assurances that immigration will be reduced to acceptable levels

Will anybody really be surprised if eventually we end up with a Swiss/Norwegian type agreement with the EU which ultimately solves few of the concerns the leave campaign highlighted?

Load of bollox
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Personally, I think the best solution for us is to have free trade, freedom of movement and none of the rest of it.

I can see the EU going for that too seeing as freedom of movement was their only response when we were discussing free trade. The problem will be getting it past the electorate.
 
The long term cause of this has been blow back from Thatcherism. Couple this with the on-going austerity policies that the modern Tories have been implementing. Ordinary working class people have had enough and this was a perfect chance for them to stick the finger up the backsides of the elites. The other cause was Cameron's pitiful leadership. The only reason we had this vote was to placate the RWNJ in his party and UKIP.
 
i haven't lived in the Uk for 13 years but I had no doubt at mailing in my Leave vote, I'm tired of going "home" and not being able to find anyone who speaks english as their native tongue anymore. I'm all for melting pots and immigration, my grandparents were immigrants to england in the 1930's but its all got out of hand in my view. People shouldn't be scared of change and while in the short term, this may hurt, in 10 years time, we'll be proud we exited this dysfunctional, dated community.
 
SpurMeUp said:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/banks-prepare-to-move-thousands-of-city-jobs-2r9j08t9t @scaramanga do you still think our financial services sector is safe? Or that our economy will not stall?
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You're an intelligent chap, so I'll assume you read past headlines and look for direct quotes. In which case, I don't see how you can come to the conclusion you have.

To my knowledge, only one person of note has actually mentioned large numbers and that was the head of JP Morgan in Dublin before the referendum with the 2,000 quote. Any ideas why he might want to be talking down the city?
 
Roy1983 said:
I remember 20 plus years ago, bearing in mind we've lived in Enfield and Tottenham, my parents and school friends parents forecasting that immigration would become a negative issue. Here we are.
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Roy.

I've respectfully read (and kept quiet) about much of what has been written on this issue. But on the 'crystal ball' proclamation that 'immigration would become a negative issue', well my friend, it is ALWAYS what becomes a 'negative issue' whenever large swathes of decent, working class people are alienated. History is littered with such occasions. They've caused world wars. Enoch Powell and Eric fudging Clapton went on and on about it in the '70s (another time with poverty and sharply divided classes). It is not a 'new' thing to blame immigrants when the chips are down. The saddest thing about this vote is that it will NOT improve conditions for those who screamed loudest that they wanted it. Blaming immigration for this situation is short-sighted and wrong IMO. Is there a dearth in Britain's tangible productivity? Absolutely! It went from being an industrial powerhouse to a service economy in 20 years. Add to that deinvestment in public education, and you end up with a country whose primary export is service and an increasingly large portion of the British population not qualified to be part of that. Call it what you will (and we all have our views) but that's the truth of the matter.

Ordinary people are unprepared to deal with the coming situation. Socially and fiscally. Things are not going to rapidly and miraculously improve for the rejected classes because of Brexit. Farage spoke of an extra 350 million a week not being sent to the EU, and people actually BELIEVE that this now means the UK will have 350 million quid sitting in a huge bank vault getting bigger every moment. I am actually surprised that Farage has been 'outted' so quickly with regards to his NHS comment, and subsequent obvious lack of a fudging clue as to WHAT the Brexit campaign is actually proposing with regards to our European neighbors and all that come with them.


Discussing respectfully...
 
Roy1983 said:
Maybe. I've got options. I still believe this country is ruined but I've got some hope after this result that things might get better. I will end up in Spain one day though within 10 years preferably.
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Do you have Spanish relatives mate? Otherwise getting residency papers might be rather tough now. I mean, why should Spain accept immigrants? Genuine question and not a wind-up.
 
parklane1 said:
Without trawling through all you post about this since the result i have just took examples from your last couple. You have insinuated that those who disagree with you are ( take your pick) manipulated, self harming, narrow minded, turkeys. ( i sure they are more) As i say maybe its you who has the problem not those who had the cheek to vote for their rights/choice.
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With choice and rights come responsibility. I would HOPE that EVERYONE who voted for Brexit understands what they were voting for. I have sadly come across many examples of people who appear not to have fully gauged the full circumference of the vote's potential ramifications. For a start, the immigration thing is huxterville; a lot of current British immigration involves non-EU citizens! As for the refugee thing thrown around, Britain has actually done a 'marvelous' (and yes,use the term sarcastically!) making sure it does in fact NOT take anything like it's purported (and formerly mandated) 'fair share' of refugees as an EU member state. That's just for starters...has anyone told the poor that no-one is going to give them any of the much-rumoured extra 350 million quid a week to help bridge their collapsed incomes as the economy shifts? Of course things will eventually stabilize, that's how the world works, but the chaos beforehand will torture the very people who thought they were voting for a 'better and independent Britain'...that's my view anyway mate.
 
I'm sorry, can anyone seriously offer me a proper manifesto from the Brexit campaign? I am aware of the 'immigration argument' but is there anything else? Do they have a stated series of plans to discuss how Britain
*becomes an export powerhouse by itself
*regenerates itself into an economy that isn't dominated by the service industry (because let's face it, that's what will need to happen here)
*deals with the immigrants here
*differentiates between the immigrants who are here (what about the Irish, for example? Should they now be kicked out?)
*continue to work with our European neighbours in a diplomatic and productive way
...look, the list of questions I have goes on and on. \
Let's face it, they don't have a fudging clue.

My biggest concern here is the traction that right-wing nationalists worldwide will get from this result...
 
Is anyone even a tiny bit surprised that Nicolas Sturgeon is acting the clam over all of this?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but accepting the UK's handouts in their referendum also meant accepting that they are a small part of the UK and cannot have majority decisions by themselves.

As soon as a decision goes against them they want another referendum? That's not how it works.
 
No one should be kicked out Steff and I don't think anyone but a very small minority of far right idiots would even think that's a possibility - what it hopefully means is that we have better control of who comes in to the country. You say yourself that large numbers of British nationals are no longer qualified to work in certain industries so why are we allowing in unskilled migrant workers to make their opportunities even less? It doesn't stack up imo


With regards to the rest people seem to be working on the assumption that because a lot of our trade revolves around EU trade deals that we're buggered, but all that means is that there will be a period of adjustment as we renegotiate those deals on our terms.

My girlfriend works for Citigroup and was distraught yesterday morning when she checked the results - she's been working herself up about what it will mean for her and the banking industry, well last night after a day at work she was much more relaxed and said the overall opinion from work was that after an initial period of instability things will settle down and carry on as normal and the end of days which had been predicted was nothing more than hyperbole
 
scaramanga said:
Is anyone even a tiny bit surprised that
Gilzeantoscore said:
The long term cause of this has been blow back from Thatcherism. Couple this with the on-going austerity policies that the modern Tories have been implementing. Ordinary working class people have had enough and this was a perfect chance for them to stick the finger up the backsides of the elites. The other cause was Cameron's pitiful leadership. The only reason we had this vote was to placate the RWNJ in his party and UKIP.
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I wondered how long it would take before thatcher got the blame. Absolute rubbish.

If anything it's politicians like Corbyn who are blame. It was obvious that he had no interest in a remain vote but rather than do the decent thing and campaign for what he believed in and possibly lose his lucrative promotion he kept his mouth shut. Now he can't even bring himself to resign, he's clinging on for hrs worth. For HIS gain not the country's. That's who the people are sticking their fingers up at, politicians who don't give s damm about anything but themselves.

Politicians aren't listening and anyone who thinks this vote will change is in for a terrible shock.
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"I would HOPE that EVERYONE who voted for Brexit understands what they were voting for."

Do you genuinely believe that the reverse is the case, everybody who voted to stay fully understood what they were voting for?

"I am aware of the 'immigration argument' but is there anything else?"

You will be aware of the "immigration argument" because the remain campaign made quite a good job of painting a picture of Brexit supporters as having no other reason to vote leave, when in fact the majority took time to consider all the arguments and consequences of their decision, as indeed did the remain supporters.
 
scaramanga said:
Is anyone even a tiny bit surprised that Nicolas Sturgeon is acting the clam over all of this?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but accepting the UK's handouts in their referendum also meant accepting that they are a small part of the UK and cannot have majority decisions by themselves.

As soon as a decision goes against them they want another referendum? That's not how it works.
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She has to say something, the deluded Nat voters think this is their moment. But she knows another Indy ref and they would lose and lose well enough to bury this for a generation at least.
The assumption that all who voted to remain is an Indy vote is like a lot of the assumptions being made after the vote, totally wrong.
 
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