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Politics, politics, politics

Can well understand why so many in depressed areas of Britain voted to leave. it would have been a protest against the import of cheap foreign labour, that has reduced job opportunities and driven down conditions. The Tories economic masters will not be happy with that.
 
Can well understand why so many in depressed areas of Britain voted to leave. it would have been a protest against the import of cheap foreign labour, that has reduced job opportunities and driven down conditions. The Tories economic masters will not be happy with that.

That is it, basically. And that's why Labour voters in these areas ignored their party.

There is an opportunity for Labour now though. Assuming Britain leaves the single market and no longer has free movement of EU people, the immigration fox has been shot. Now, for the people in those areas and elsewhere, the immigration issue will be resolved and the attention will turn to domestic policy, and what type of government you want to live under. You only have to see the revolt on proposed tax credit changes and disability benefits to see that many, many people don't want a rampant, unforgiving pure capitalist economic policy.
 
Absolutely not all of them. I spoke to plenty of people who wanted to leave that were able to give me fair reasoned opinions and arguments as to why it makes sense. However, there were definitely a much higher % of uneducated, village idiot bellends on the Leave side than the remain. And most of them voted leave because of 'foreigners innit'

One of the guys on my Facebook feed last night who spent all day trying to convince everyone to leave posted (whilst watching the results come through) to say 'What are Gibraltar doing voting in OUR referendum???'. Another girl proudly voted no because apparently 'The EU took GHod out of schools and that's why teenagers don't respect their elders anymore'

I mean come the fudge on.................

I agree they are/were "bellends " on the leave side, but they were also a lot of" mushroom bellends" on the remain side who believed all the flimflam they heard/read from the leaders of remain. The pound will collapse ( its been bouncing around for years, so nothing new there), our exports/inports will collapse in fact all the scare stories to frighten the " mushroom bellends".

As for what macarons on Facebook or teletext say i am surprised that so called educated folks actually believe/ get wound up by what they read on there.
 
Correlation does not = causation. But there are reasons that China has advanced. As there are that the UK has. Part of the UKs advance, economists believe, has been free trade. Not WTO trade. Or Common Wealth trade but trade with and via the EU.
If it's the free trade that's benefited us (and I think it partly is) then imagine how well we could have done if we'd had free trade with everyone

What is wrong with cheap holidays!? Why would you want them to stop?
As I said, a few % on the £ won't make holidays suddenly expensive. As a net exporter with a cash-generating European subsidiary I like a low £.

Depends on how you measure it. UK is 9th largest if measured differently. Its not ridiculous, to make logical inferences that outside the EU we will drop down the list in time.
What measure are you using? It's clearly not the one everyone else uses.

I can't see any good reason why we would drop down the list. The FTSE has rebounded, European shares are falling faster than anyone's. I can see us overtaking Germany fairly soon if they continue to have to prop up the Euro.

Its not perfection that the majority voted this way. That's not a shock at all. The democratic processes is far from perfect.

It is, but this is as close to pure democracy as you'll get.

Can you tell me which laws you have scrutinized that need re-writing?

Agency/Temp worker rights
Recent changes to holiday pay multiples
Minimum paid leave
The working time directive
The loss of one's rights against self-incrimination (this one was a favour, not part of my job)
Solvent emissions directive
The industrial emissions directive
Transfer and disposal of dangerous waste
CO2 emissions in shipping
Cleaner air for Europe
The ban of hexavalent chrome
EDIT:
I forgot the Equality Act - how the fudge did I forget that one? That one was one of the worst

That's just what I can find on my desk and with a scan through two folders on my cloud.

So its good to have people out of work! Seriously! Which economics school is this from?
The one that describes supply and demand. If you have full employment then wages (and with them, inflation) go through the roof. We need a slightly higher unemployment rate to reduce the upward pressure on wages.

More people claiming benefits, yes sure that's exactly what the UK needs.
Just reduce benefit payments.

The US said: the UK will join the back of the queue re. trade agreements. How are you so sure we will now jump that queue?
Because the two presidential candidates and Obama have all since said that. Obviously we will be lower in the queue than the EU - about 2 places as the size of our economy dictates.

But we will be leaner and better at negotiating and we're not protectionist which makes a centre-right US happy. I'm sure they'll want tariffs on some heavy lobbying industries but overall they're not set up for that kind of economy.

WTO already addressed in other post. Of course we need to have the seat now we're out the EU. Absurd not to!
I want us to have a seat there I was merely pointing out that we don't have to expend that resource as the WTO is fighting our cause anyway - we don't have to fight our corner as we did with the EU.[/QUOTE]
 
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FTSE rallies to a 2.3% drop.
DAX down 5.9%
CAC down 7.2%
I won't even mention Spain and Italy
Sterling low enough to undercut on exports and negate any tariffs
Germany now the only country propping up the EU
EU urging us to hurry up and implement article 50 to end the uncertainty in their markets

Looks to me like we've got a pocket full of bargaining chips.
 


Wow I thought The Times was Pro Brexit. That article is far more fervent than I feel. Bitter almost. It seems no one wanted to stand with Cameron, despite knowing that they wanted remain. Almost as though they were afraid of the people. This is also pretty damning, but has some interesting thoughts on the future of UK politics http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/will-parliament-try-to-foil-brexit-vz3hpfm9x

What a mess. We need a strong leader to navigate this. I don't mind Borris, he could do it. But I don't think he will take the job or be voted in. Its a poisoned chalice in many regards. How do you deliver less migration, better trade, negotiate with the EU and the rest of the world, and run the country? Boris doesn't want that job. Who would that could pull it off?
 
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Wow I thought The Times was Pro Brexit. That article is far more fervent than I feel. Bitter almost. It seems no one wanted to stand with Cameron, despite knowing that they wanted remain. Almost as though they were afraid of the people. This is also pretty damning, but has some interesting thoughts on the future of UK politics http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/will-parliament-try-to-foil-brexit-vz3hpfm9x

What a mess. We need a strong leader to navigate this. I don't mind Borris, he could do it. But I don't think he will take the job or be voted in. Its a poisoned chalice in many regards. How do you deliver less migration, better trade, negotiate with the EU and the rest of the world, and run the country? Boris doesn't want that job. Who would that could pull it off?

it's gonna be a clusterfudge
 
it's gonna be a clusterfudge

Jesus. The Times has suddenly gone pro-Remain http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/recession-forecast-to-follow-brexit-vote-rc8bj3cmd wtf happened? In the run up they were pro Brexit weren't they? Yet to check out the Sun. Will look now.

Edit: yeah the Sun are ontop of it https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13349...sidies-will-stop-filming-in-northern-ireland/ :)

I am not sure what to believe now. Is Scara's approach right, all will work out, or are the likes of the Times, ratings agencies, and the FT correct in their view that instability and economic contraction will follow? It seems like an awfully big gamble with not a lot to gain. I really hope I am wrong.
 
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Jesus. The Times has suddenly gone pro-Remain http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/recession-forecast-to-follow-brexit-vote-rc8bj3cmd wtf happened? In the run up they were pro Brexit weren't they? Yet to check out the Sun. Will look now.

Edit: yeah the Sun are ontop of it https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13349...sidies-will-stop-filming-in-northern-ireland/ :)

I am not sure what to believe now. Is Scara's approach right, all will work out, or are the likes of the Times, ratings agencies, and the FT correct in their view that instability and economic contraction will follow? It seems like an awfully big gamble with not a lot to gain. I really hope I am wrong.
All the predictions I read were based on the UK having reduced trade (something I think is a flawed assumption) and the EU having decent growth (also, IMO a massively flawed assumption).

The movement after the initial uncertainty suggests that there are at least some investors that agree.

Take those two assumptions out and all the scary numbers go away.
 
I know this may contradict what I said earlier but now I've had a moment to have a breather and enjoy the sun I think we should just look to put all this behind us for good. The whole debate has driven me just as crazy as a decade of PPI cold calls, letters, emails, texts etc... has.

I do have very strong scepticism about the future and I think we are in for an extended period of turmoil but hopefully we can grit our teeth together and work through it without turning on one another or hand working immigrants who are one of a handful of things that make me proud to be British.

Appologies as well to anyone I offended with comments I made earlier. I'm just genuinley concerned that the far right movements will be galvinised and believe that the electorate is behind them and a large minority of idiots can cause an awful lot of damage. Look at Russia's sizeable far right as an example.

I think the best thing that can happen given the result is for other nations to say they'd like to call it a day. The statement from the EU where they said they looked forward to continuing their relationship with Britain caught me by surprise. It seems like they know their days are numbered and I pray (not that I believe in GHod) that there could be some leeway for rejoining the EU if major changes are made which the nation can compromise on with one another.

The worst thing that can happen is that this debate rumbles on for the next decade or two. Calling for a revote is a bit petulant to the democratic process. The same can be said for Scottish independence as every time the Scots vote to remain they can call for anotherone but as soon as the Scots vote to leave we will never see them again.

Think we should focus less on the union we were part of and look to draw together the one we remain in.

Rule Britannia, COYS, and fudge off back to Woolwich dial Square...
 
All the predictions I read were based on the UK having reduced trade (something I think is a flawed assumption) and the EU having decent growth (also, IMO a massively flawed assumption).

The movement after the initial uncertainty suggests that there are at least some investors that agree.

Take those two assumptions out and all the scary numbers go away.

Are you factoring in the fall in the pound? The FTSE is *only* down 4-5%, but if you factor in the pounds loss, the real valuation of UK companies stands a shocking 11% down on this morning. That is a massive massive drop. Maybe the pound will recover, but people who work in fiance are concerned:

The FT's Bryce Elder points out that Sterling's slump means the FTSE 100 outperformed world markets. But that told only half the story. Priced in dollars, the FTSE 100 tumbled 10.9 per cent. The daily loss was second only to its Black Monday crash of 1987, which sent the benchmark plunging 12.2 per cent in dollar terms.

And

So, bottom line, the verdict from the markets is that this event has made UK-listed companies much less valuable. And, as a Lex note later will make clear, the performance of smaller stocks in the FTSE 250 is much worse. The 250 is down 7% today, or in dollar terms, some nasty double-digit number.


The greatest concern for me is we have no long term leader, and who would want the job? Who can deliver the impossible or at least give the impression that they can, to stabalise things?
 
I know this may contradict what I said earlier but now I've had a moment to have a breather and enjoy the sun I think we should just look to put all this behind us for good. The whole debate has driven me just as crazy as a decade of PPI cold calls, letters, emails, texts etc... has.

I do have very strong scepticism about the future and I think we are in for an extended period of turmoil but hopefully we can grit our teeth together and work through it without turning on one another or hand working immigrants who are one of a handful of things that make me proud to be British.

Appologies as well to anyone I offended with comments I made earlier. I'm just genuinley concerned that the far right movements will be galvinised and believe that the electorate is behind them and a large minority of idiots can cause an awful lot of damage. Look at Russia's sizeable far right as an example.

I think the best thing that can happen given the result is for other nations to say they'd like to call it a day. The statement from the EU where they said they looked forward to continuing their relationship with Britain caught me by surprise. It seems like they know their days are numbered and I pray (not that I believe in GHod) that there could be some leeway for rejoining the EU if major changes are made which the nation can compromise on with one another.

The worst thing that can happen is that this debate rumbles on for the next decade or two. Calling for a revote is a bit petulant to the democratic process. The same can be said for Scottish independence as every time the Scots vote to remain they can call for anotherone but as soon as the Scots vote to leave we will never see them again.

Think we should focus less on the union we were part of and look to draw together the one we remain in.

Rule Britannia, COYS, and fudge off back to Woolwich dial Square...
Best case scenario is a few others leaving and the EU falling apart. Then we can all start a free trade bloc with no external tariffs, no subsidies and a resolution that this is all the group will ever be, signed in blood.

Things dragging out is not necessarily the worst scenario. The EU is clearly suffering on its exchanges, they want the uncertainty done with as Germany can't prop everyone up indefinitely and the Netherlands will be gone in no time if they're asked to stump up more. We have a very strong hand all the time their markets are falling faster than ours (not something predicted by the doomsayers over the last few months BTW).
 
Are you factoring in the fall in the pound? The FTSE is *only* down 4-5%, but if you factor in the pounds loss, the real valuation of UK companies stands a shocking 11% down on this morning. That is a massive massive drop. Maybe the pound will recover, but people who work in fiance are concerned:

The FT's Bryce Elder points out that Sterling's slump means the FTSE 100 outperformed world markets. But that told only half the story. Priced in dollars, the FTSE 100 tumbled 10.9 per cent. The daily loss was second only to its Black Monday crash of 1987, which sent the benchmark plunging 12.2 per cent in dollar terms.

And

So, bottom line, the verdict from the markets is that this event has made UK-listed companies much less valuable. And, as a Lex note later will make clear, the performance of smaller stocks in the FTSE 250 is much worse. The 250 is down 7% today, or in dollar terms, some nasty double-digit number.


The greatest concern for me is we have no long term leader, and who would want the job? Who can deliver the impossible or at least give the impression that they can to stabalise things?
The Sterling drop is, IMO, a temporary correction because the markets were uncharacteristically bullish last week and everyone bet on remain. They all had to cover their losses as much as possible by dumping Sterling again. The £ isn't down all that much compared to other lows over the past few months, it's just a particularly hard fall from the heights it had wrongly climbed last week.

Bear in mind that the Sterling drop was all overnight. It steadied very quickly and the movement in the market was away from Europe towards the UK for the rest of the day. Initial uncertainty can do anything but the active movement after it settled shows conscious choices.
 
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