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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

P.D. said:
I don't listen to him daily but when I have he comes across as arrogant/condescending who shuts down debate from callers that disagree with him that are intelligent enough to put forward an alternative viewpoint and seems to have a superiority complex over others.

But I can see why people who agree with his views would enjoy his show but even to this day he continues to dismiss anyone voting for Brexit as dumb which is ignorant at best.
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I've rarely seen him talk people down, only when they insult him, are rude or get stuck on repeating some futile point. He seems open to any viewpoint from what I've heard and seen.

The lazy characterisation is he's arrogant or superior, but that's likely going off a few choice clips and doesn't really have a basis in reality.
 
nayenezgani said:
How did being in the EU cause you issues? What negative effects did it have on your day to day life? Or are you simply concerned with England's 'sovereignty'? Just trying to understand where your vehement opposition stems from.
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great question!
I can’t think of any major gains for Mr average.
The big winners will be eventually those with an already healthy portfolio.
 
scaramanga said:
A question for all of you who know/care more about the fishing side of the deal than I do;

If we leave with no deal and the EU tariffs our fisherman out of the market, where does the EU get its fresh fish from?
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Don't we import more fish from the EU than we export to it?

I guess both sides will just have less choice, although a cursory glance at a map (what am I, a Tory Brexit negotiator) suggests the EU does have some coastline too.

I'm also assuming there is an amount of fishing ground around Ireland that remains accessible, and a reasonable chance that both Wales and Scotland will gain independence and rejoin the EU in the not too distant future.

Still, its a whopping 0.5% of our economy, so worth going to the mattresses for.
 
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P.D. said:
I don't listen to him daily but when I have he comes across as arrogant/condescending who shuts down debate from callers that disagree with him that are intelligent enough to put forward an alternative viewpoint and seems to have a superiority complex over others.

But I can see why people who agree with his views would enjoy his show but even to this day he continues to dismiss anyone voting for Brexit as dumb which is ignorant at best.
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he absolutely doesn't do that, he oft repeats that those to blame are the charlatans that tricked people into voting for it
 
P.D. said:
But I can see why people who agree with his views would enjoy his show but even to this day he continues to dismiss anyone voting for Brexit as dumb which is ignorant at best.
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Makes a change from being called a racist just because the MAJORITY voted for Brexit. Four years and some are still crying and flapping their gums about just that.
 
nayenezgani said:
How did being in the EU cause you issues? What negative effects did it have on your day to day life? Or are you simply concerned with England's 'sovereignty'? Just trying to understand where your vehement opposition stems from.
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My reasons for voting out and boy have I done this to death, but I dont think with you yo be fair, so here I go again.

Is not in any particular order but the first one is the one I do find most sinister.

I do not like the creeping influence the EU has on every area of life it worries when anyone country or group of countries seek to dominate another. Have often repeated if it were a trade club as it was originally meant to be I would have no issue in being a member.

Do not like the European convention of human rights which I perceive as giving criminals an easy ride. See the issues we had trying to deport the Islamic extremists (I know muslims, they were not true muslims)

Do not like how the EU are so protectionist, how they have persecuted African farmers is a point in proof. Again British fishermen, know of no other country that would be giving away a natural resource.

I'm an outwardly looking chap, which is why my last 7 holidays have been outside the EU area. I would rather be part of a country that traded and interacted with the whole world.

I know of tradespeople who were absolutely hurt as were some low paid people by mass immigration. I dont think it is racist to have some controls on immigration. Would not go as far as @awesome dawson and claim to make the process so tough as to deter "undesirables"

Perhaps after the worry of where the EU is headed the next most important reason for wanting to leave is that I like the idea of being able to kick out the government every 5 years. Would stake everything on the tories being rightfully kicked out at the next election. The EU employed Neil Kinnock for years.

I distrust government's in general, smaller government is for me. That is not the EU.

I like the idea of nationalising the railways and think some industries should be subsidised (water, electric) quite socialist in many ways am I. Was very fond of Corbyn and the is a reason why he spent his life criticising the EU, it's to big and to far reaching.

You might not believe this, I'm just some guy on the internet you have never met but I am actually fairly well off and the way my crypto is going I'm going to be more. So the negatives of us leaving, a slight short contraction to the economy I can more then withstand.
 
Baleforce said:
he absolutely doesn't do that, he oft repeats that those to blame are the charlatans that tricked people into voting for it
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What about us that have never read a Murdoch paper and have disliked the EU and thought coming out the ERM was a good thing in the long run?

I often hear romoaners say we were fooled by lies. But as they are so quick to tell us, leavers were older so based our decisions on life experience.

No one I know voted leave did so because of Farage or Johnson and as I said the other day Farage has stood 3 times for parliament in leave voting strong holds and not got close to getting in. So it's not like he has people in the palm of his hand.
 
Being a Eurosceptic, which I am, doesn't mean I think we will be better off out. Simple thing alot of people haven't stomached. It's not binary. Staying within leads to more prosperity overall. It leads to more stability. What we have now is we will be worse with a bad deal and a lot worse with a no deal. That's a fact.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
What about us that have never read a Murdoch paper and have disliked the EU and thought coming out the ERM was a good thing in the long run?

I often hear romoaners say we were fooled by lies. But as they are so quick to tell us, leavers were older so based our decisions on life experience.

No one I know voted leave did so because of Farage or Johnson and as I said the other day Farage has stood 3 times for parliament in leave voting strong holds and not got close to getting in. So it's not like he has people in the palm of his hand.
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There are obviously a number of independently wealthy crypto investors and industrial sociopaths (that can benefit from making their staff work with toxic chemicals in unregulated ways) who were happy with the economic hit, fair play to them, they are getting what they hoped they were voting for.

I’m thinking more of north east car factory workers whose leave vote has cost them their jobs and the poor people of Kent who will
have their town turned into a lorry park.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
My reasons for voting out and boy have I done this to death, but I dont think with you yo be fair, so here I go again.

Is not in any particular order but the first one is the one I do find most sinister.

I do not like the creeping influence the EU has on every area of life it worries when anyone country or group of countries seek to dominate another. Have often repeated if it were a trade club as it was originally meant to be I would have no issue in being a member.

Do not like the European convention of human rights which I perceive as giving criminals an easy ride. See the issues we had trying to deport the Islamic extremists (I know muslims, they were not true muslims)

Do not like how the EU are so protectionist, how they have persecuted African farmers is a point in proof. Again British fishermen, know of no other country that would be giving away a natural resource.

I'm an outwardly looking chap, which is why my last 7 holidays have been outside the EU area. I would rather be part of a country that traded and interacted with the whole world.

I know of tradespeople who were absolutely hurt as were some low paid people by mass immigration. I dont think it is racist to have some controls on immigration. Would not go as far as @awesome dawson and claim to make the process so tough as to deter "undesirables"

Perhaps after the worry of where the EU is headed the next most important reason for wanting to leave is that I like the idea of being able to kick out the government every 5 years. Would stake everything on the tories being rightfully kicked out at the next election. The EU employed Neil Kinnock for years.

I distrust government's in general, smaller government is for me. That is not the EU.

I like the idea of nationalising the railways and think some industries should be subsidised (water, electric) quite socialist in many ways am I. Was very fond of Corbyn and the is a reason why he spent his life criticising the EU, it's to big and to far reaching.

You might not believe this, I'm just some guy on the internet you have never met but I am actually fairly well off and the way my crypto is going I'm going to be more. So the negatives of us leaving, a slight short contraction to the economy I can more then withstand.
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I'm not totally sure how you categorise "creeping influence on every area of life"? That sounds like hyperbole to me. In what ways did they try and dominate you?

You can't trade and interact with the whole world while being a member of the EU? That's news to me. Also you can't create your own immigration laws while being a member of the EU? Again, news to me.

I'm getting that you fear the EU will eventually become one giant ruling body that applies laws to you that your country can't control? Again I'm just trying to understand. But that also sounds like a reach.

The rest I guess I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but have you considered that what you've voted for likely isn't just a 'slight short contraction' to the economy.

What if it takes generations to fix for everyday working class people? Like how will your son go coping with it?
 
Also, Chich, you have a young son right, are you not concerned about the economy from his point of view, where it will be in 5/10 years?

How about the environmental protection regression this will inevitably lead to, what will the country be like for your grandchildren to grow up in?
 
Baleforce said:
There are obviously a number of independently wealthy crypto investors and industrial sociopaths (that can benefit from making their staff work with toxic chemicals in unregulated ways) who were happy with the economic hit, fair play to them, they are getting what they hoped they were voting for.

I’m thinking more of north east car factory workers whose leave vote has cost them their jobs and the poor people of Kent who will
have their town turned into a lorry park.
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Kent is a car park.
 
Baleforce said:
Also, Chich, you have a young son right, are you not concerned about the economy from his point of view, where it will be in 5/10 years?

How about the environmental protection regression this will inevitably lead to, what will the country be like for your grandchildren to grow up in?
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I hope he goes out into the world to work. The world is bigger then Europe, not accusing you but always found a bit of arrogance around Europeans thinking it was the centre of the world.

As for the environment, the government will not get reelected if they abandon their commitment to it. Being green is a vote winner.
 
nayenezgani said:
I'm not totally sure how you categorise "creeping influence on every area of life"? That sounds like hyperbole to me. In what ways did they try and dominate you?

You can't trade and interact with the whole world while being a member of the EU? That's news to me. Also you can't create your own immigration laws while being a member of the EU? Again, news to me.

I'm getting that you fear the EU will eventually become one giant ruling body that applies laws to you that your country can't control? Again I'm just trying to understand. But that also sounds like a reach.

The rest I guess I can kind of understand where you're coming from, but have you considered that what you've voted for likely isn't just a 'slight short contraction' to the economy.

What if it takes generations to fix for everyday working class people? Like how will your son go coping with it?
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I am more optimistic then you or your more pessimistic then me. I think how this country was going along under the EU was troubling and I'm quite sure that a lot felt similar backed up by election results. Once out of the EU we will vote a centre left labour party in and go about our place as part of a global economy away from a protectionist EU.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I am more optimistic then you or your more pessimistic then me. I think how this country was going along under the EU was troubling and I'm quite sure that a lot felt similar backed up by election results. Once out of the EU we will vote a centre left labour party in and go about our place as part of a global economy away from a protectionist EU.
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Fine but you still haven't articulated how or why it was troubling for you, day to day. Maybe you can't, maybe it's a hunch? I just find it fascinating.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm saying that there were a while range of deals that we were told were available to us when the statements about it being simple were made. When those statements were made, they were both accurate and truthful

Regardless of how good or bad you think those deals were, they were there (with a little tweaking) to be had.

They were suddenly and emphatically no longer available once the EU realised we were serious. That's their prerogative - being untruthful to the other party is a part of getting good deals. But you can't criticise the govt for claiming there were deals ready for us when they were told there were.
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There are a wide range of deals available to us now. None of them are as good as the deal we had. That is the rub. That is the crux of Brexit. Sold as a positive, when you finally strip back the BS and look at the trade reality, the promises evaporate, and you're left with suboptimal arrangement that leaves the UK worse off. That was the point.
 
Baleforce said:
Don't we import more fish from the EU than we export to it?

I guess both sides will just have less choice, although a cursory glance at a map (what am I, a Tory Brexit negotiator) suggests the EU does have some coastline too.

I'm also assuming there is an amount of fishing ground around Ireland that remains accessible, and a reasonable chance that both Wales and Scotland will gain independence and rejoin the EU in the not too distant future.

Still, its a whopping 0.5% of our economy, so worth going to the mattresses for.
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I don't think it matters at all, just intrigued by the negotiation side of things.

I believe we do import from the EU, but my understanding is that it's fish they've caught from their quota in our waters mainly.
 
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