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***OMT TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Everton***

monkeybarry said:
Absolutely they would.
But it wasn't a one off.

Did you see the stat about the form since Nov 2023?
Win % was somewhere around 35/40%.
Defeat % was > 50%.

Those players have played in that period. To Ange's tactics.
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Do you think the side are playing as Postecoglou had envisioned?

You either hire a manager and let them build their vision, or just end up in a cycle of not letting managers build. Now it is too late for Ange, he has lost the fans, and no doubt Levy is asking for a shortlist of new managers.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I was okay with the starting line up and said it here. That’s because I thought Gray was playing CM.
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He was effectively playing CM while in possession.
DeanoAustin said:
You look back, you’ll see that. When one poster posted the shape, I reacted shocked because it seemed insane to me. And so it proved.

That doesn’t make me a genius or anything. It was always likely.
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So you aren't one of those pillaring Ange for being inflexible, in fact he should have stuck to his rigid setup?
 
SpurMeUp said:
I didn't see your post on this head scratcher in the opening minutes, my mistake. I'm sure its there! Ange has been pillared for not being adaptable (see below). Then he adapts. Damned if he does and if he does not.

Point


But he played a different setup today :D This is a prime example of how fans end up undermining a manager. Rather than let the manager stick to their vision, they build this narrative that Ange is rigid, inflexible. So he changes things, and it makes us worse.

I'm all for sacking Ange now. Not because he is useless, but because his position is untenable. How could anyone run a team facing such a lack of confidence in him? It is nigh on impossible.
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He changed the system, but the underlying philosphy is still the same. He has players playing out in ridiculous circumstances instead of clearing their lines or putting the ball out of play. There was still huge spaces in front of the defence with one ball over the top leading to the opposition being in on goal. If you think that changing the system changed anything in the overall way we play then you are 100% wrong.
 
DubSpur said:
He changed the system, but the underlying philosphy is still the same.
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You wanted him to change his philosophy???? Serious delusion. If you hire someone you know who they are, how they play.
DubSpur said:
He has players playing out in ridiculous circumstances instead of clearing their lines or putting the ball out of play.
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I saw us both clear our lines and put the ball out of play.
DubSpur said:
There was still huge spaces in front of the defence with one ball over the top leading to the opposition being in on goal. If you think that changing the system changed anything in the overall way we play then you are 100% wrong.
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We have a certain way of playing which is high risk. There isn't room for error. Is it flawed? It isn't that different to Emirates Marketing Project's way of playing. Which shows that if you get it right, it can be a highly effective system, but it is also prone to exposure if the team is not fully on it. And with so many players out, what do you expect?
 
Kandi1977 said:
Everything will be rosy red and bright lilywhite if we just change the manager now. That's all it takes. Got nothing to do with having half the squad injured the entire season.
A change in manager is the only thing that's guaranteed to work.
Just look at United. They appointed what is supposed to be the next Pep and supposedly the best young manager in the world. Look how well that is going...
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We're free falling in to the relegation battle, has Ange displayed the traits you would want from your manager if you got sucked in to that situation?

I'd have given him till the summer but I didn't realise how close we are to getting dragged in to it and I don't think he has enough about him to do what is required should it go that way.
 
So our form over the last 6 matches is right up there with Southampton. Only Leicester's is worse.................and of course that will all change next :rolleyes: Sunday
 
SpurMeUp said:
Do you think the side are playing as Postecoglou had envisioned?

You either hire a manager and let them build their vision, or just end up in a cycle of not letting managers build. Now it is too late for Ange, he has lost the fans, and no doubt Levy is asking for a shortlist of new managers.
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I have a vision of us playing like prime Peps Barcelona - doesn't mean i can make it happen
 
billyiddo said:
I have a vision of us playing like prime Peps Barcelona - doesn't mean i can make it happen
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Which is fine, if you have all your tools at your disposal. Not sure it is fair to judge someones work when they've broken half of their tools. You could say that is on Ange for stressing his assets so much, which is fair enough. Anyway it is probably time now. I don't see how he can continue.
 
billyiddo said:
We're free falling in to the relegation battle, has Ange displayed the traits you would want from your manager if you got sucked in to that situation?

I'd have given him till the summer but I didn't realise how close we are to getting dragged in to it and I don't think he has enough about him to do what is required should it go that way.
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I'm still not worried about getting relegated. I'm dead against changing manager mid season. You rarely end up with anything other than make shift option. Mason wouldn't do any better with this depleted and fatigued squad.
The main thing now will be getting players back. It's a disaster of a season, but there are still plenty to play for.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Which is fine, if you have all your tools at your disposal. Not sure it is fair to judge someones work when they've broken half of their tools. You could say that is on Ange for stressing his assets so much, which is fair enough. Anyway it is probably time now. I don't see how he can continue.
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I've said for some time whilst wanting Ange to see this tough period out I have no issue with anyone wanting Ange out - results haven't been good enough, personally I saw enough green shoots and nuances in many games to think he's worth persevering with but wouldn't argue with anyone who thinks differently as we all have different tolerance levels.

I just at least wanted him to have the opportunity with a closer to fully fit squad to show what he can do one last time, but if we don't beat Leicester I can't see Levy not pulling the trigger. And at the end of the day, we can't say Levy hasn't given Ange ample time and opportunity - something he has definitely not done in the past. So at least there is some positive perhaps....
 
Kandi1977 said:
I'm still not worried about getting relegated. I'm dead against changing manager mid season. You rarely end up with anything other than make shift option. Mason wouldn't do any better with this depleted and fatigued squad.
The main thing now will be getting players back. It's a disaster of a season, but there are still plenty to play for.
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I agree
 
SpurMeUp said:
He was effectively playing CM while in possession.


So you aren't one of those pillaring Ange for being inflexible, in fact he should have stuck to his rigid setup?
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I’ve never pilloried Ange. I’ve criticised him from the beginning for how he sets up. You cannot be successful at this level defending how he defends IMO.

That has little to do with formations which he has changed on occasion (v Arsenal in midweek, v Liverpool in the SF and v City at home last year most notably). It’s the principles of how he plays which are the problem regardless of formation and he sticks to those principles rigidly.

I genuinely would have loved for it to work for him because I think it’d be brilliant for football. But there is too much evidence there now that proves it just won’t work.
 
harr1984 said:
I've said for some time whilst wanting Ange to see this tough period out I have no issue with anyone wanting Ange out - results haven't been good enough, personally I saw enough green shoots and nuances in many games to think he's worth persevering with but wouldn't argue with anyone who thinks differently as we all have different tolerance levels.

I just at least wanted him to have the opportunity with a closer to fully fit squad to show what he can do one last time, but if we don't beat Leicester I can't see Levy not pulling the trigger. And at the end of the day, we can't say Levy hasn't given Ange ample time and opportunity - something he has definitely not done in the past. So at least there is some positive perhaps....
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Yes it is a shame we didn't get to develop and refine this way of playing. It is high risk, but get it right, and we could succeed too. What does it take to get an Ange side to click? Obviously any manager needs fit players. Not having Romero, VDV and Bentancur has been seismic. And the lack of rotation for attackers is equally undermining. We probably also need a more developed squad. We're invested into youth players, and they are not going to slip into the side and play at a top level right away. And then we need to give it time. It needs some time and patience. Something you won't get at Spurs when results are not forthcoming.
 
Kandi1977 said:
Everything will be rosy red and bright lilywhite if we just change the manager now. That's all it takes. Got nothing to do with having half the squad injured the entire season.
A change in manager is the only thing that's guaranteed to work.
Just look at United. They appointed what is supposed to be the next Pep and supposedly the best young manager in the world. Look how well that is going...
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The way we set up against Everton today was way too open. We were doing ok offensively in the first half but once Everton attacked we were vulnerable. That is on the manager. Everton couldn't buy a goal under Dyche. Today they score 3 and could have had more.

This manager can only stay if he can reasonably get us out of this mess using the players available. He lost to Arsenal in the week. Fair enough, they are sadly better than us. Today he lost to the team 1 place below us. We are in big trouble unless we pick up points soon. Which given we also have Europe restarting seems highly unlikely atm.
 
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