*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Saudi Sportswashing Machine FC ***

[90291Spur]

As many as ours?

I read three. Apparently viruses can be picked up be people who haven’t been ruined by Ange.

 

[Robspur12]

I read three. Apparently viruses can be picked up be people who haven’t been ruined by Ange.

Fair enough.

 

[thfcsteff]

No we don't, not sensible ones anyway. Illness and injury have some of the same root causes, fatigue and stress. As I said it's a perfectly valid question. We know the Festive period is busy so you have to manage your players to limit both. You don't have cover so you can only manage the way you play.

I can only say that whilst I see what you're saying, I wholly disagree that we should drastically alter the way we play based on an injury crisis. I think the net success (so far as extra points gained) would be negligible at best. The modifications we've made have been appropriate.

The fatigue and stress are absolutely right, and we have been unable to break that cycle. I think changing the way we play would only add to that. Again, we have modified aspects of what we do.

 

[metalgear]

Levy isn't a football man and this shows clearly the difference. Hate pool owners but they've been making all the right decisions for the club.

"Liverpool Football Club acknowledges PGMOL’s admission of their failures last night. It is clear that the correct application of the laws of the game did not occur, resulting in sporting integrity being undermined.

We fully accept the pressures that match officials work under but these pressures are supposed to be alleviated, not exacerbated, by the existence and implementation of VAR.

It is therefore unsatisfactory that sufficient time was not afforded to allow the correct decision to be made and that there was no subsequent intervention.

That such failings have already been categorised as “significant human error” is also unacceptable. Any and all outcomes should be established only by the review and with full transparency.

This is vital for the reliability of future decision-making as it applies to all clubs with learnings being used to make improvements to processes in order to ensure this kind of situation cannot occur again.

In the meantime, we will explore the range of options available, given the clear need for escalation and resolution."

This is why Liverpool get favourable refereeing decisions. They had the guts to go after PGMOL, ironically after our game.

Here is Arsenal's

"Arsenal Football Club wholeheartedly supports Mikel Arteta’s post-match comments after yet more unacceptable refereeing and VAR errors on Saturday evening.

We’d also like to acknowledge the huge effort and performance from our players and travelling supporters at St James’ Park.

The Premier League is the best league in the world with the best players, coaches and supporters, all of whom deserve better. PGMOL urgently needs to address the standard of officiating and focus on action which moves us all on from retrospective analysis, attempted explanations and apologies.

We support the ongoing efforts of Chief Refereeing Officer, Howard Webb and would welcome working together to achieve the world-class officiating standards our league demands."

It is an even stronger message than Liverpool's, but had a positive impact.

I genuinely believe that this weekend Levy needs to sanction an equivalent comm from THFC. We now need to go on the offensive against PGMOL. Howard Webb needs to feel the pressure for his team to start following the laws of the game again. They are breaking the system that is football once more.

 

[stratnumberone]

I dont feel like crap, but I am angry with the decisions out there, which weren't really black or white. Ok the handball I can understand because of the rules, whilst it sucks it was 1-1. It is a different level of upset for me today, but as I said before the game as long as we tried and played our football we can do, then the result didnt matter. Alas, it does for the stupid refereeing and VAR.

What I am angry about is the following:

1) Blatant yellow card for Joelinton not given
2) Blatant second yellow card for Joelinton not given
3) Blatant Red Card for elbow for Joelinton
4) Blatant second yellow for Burn for the deliberate handball

They should have been down to 9 men essentially and we would have easily won.

Also the timewasting from those fcukers was bad, not the worst I've seen but still awful.

We are not having any luck go our way unfortunately, on injuries, ref decisions, fine margins (posts being hit, saves etc) and its highly frustrating.

Plus, you all know how bias one team, fans, manager can be, but Howe saying they deserved the win today is bullcrap. Also him saying they managed the game well at the end, what a clam. I used to think he was alright but he is a bit of a bellend now.

I just watched the MOTD replay on iPlayer which obviously gives a different perspective to the events mentioned above. That said, even from my seat in North level one it was clear that the referee missed several easy decisions.

Having seen the replays several teams and in slow motion, I have absolutely no idea how neither Burn nor Joelinton was sent off. You could possibly argue that Saudi Sportswashing Machine would’ve been unlucky to have had both sent off, although that would also have been fully justified had the officials decided to correctly apply the rules. Given that they could’ve been down to 10 or 9 with the score at 1-1 and within half an hour, I think we can consider ourselves very unlucky.

And that’s without even discussing whether or not their goal should have stood. Either way, for the officials to so steadfastly apply the rules but then fail to apply them for the Burn handball is absolutely indefensible.

In fact, there is no part of the referees performance today that is defensible. I dislike to call someone a cheat because it makes me sound exceedingly childish. So I won’t. I’ll refrain from going beyond saying that this referee is absolutely unfit for purpose and shouldn’t be allowed near a premier league (or any other professional) match again until some serious remedial training has been carried out, and significantly improved performance proven. He was utterly, utterly dire.

You mention Howe and his tactics for time wasting. His Saudi Sportswashing Machine side has been the absolute master of stealing time out of the game for a good few seasons now. Unfortaintely they will persevere with it because they make tangible gains as a result of this cheating. It’s a sad indictment of the state of the game that this tactic - which requires massive buy in at every level of the club from the first team manager down - is so widespread and so successful. That said, it requires more than ACTIVE participants; it also requires willing inactive participation. In this case, the much maligned referee, who was absolutely destroyed by Saudi Sportswashing Machine from start to finish. I am sick and tired of seeing officials stopping games for non-head injuries and failing to prevent time wasting at set pieces and during substitutions (including players being told they’re about to be taken off and sprinting to the far side of the field before then being allowed to slowly amble the long way back to the bench upon seeing their number come up). Worst of all from the players, however, is the constant pretence of a head injury when they experience nothing of the sort. These things are so, so easy for the powers-that-be to stop: properly add time on at the end of the game (4 mins first half, 10 mins second half absolutely nowhere near enough), enforce the rules for substitutions whereby players take the shortest route off the pitch, don’t stop the game for a player taking a lie down and retrospective punishment for pretending to have a head injury.

 

[Daveeeeeeeed]

I just watched the MOTD replay on iPlayer which obviously gives a different perspective to the events mentioned above. That said, even from my seat in North level one it was clear that the referee missed several easy decisions.

Having seen the replays several teams and in slow motion, I have absolutely no idea how neither Burn nor Joelinton was sent off. You could possibly argue that Saudi Sportswashing Machine would’ve been unlucky to have had both sent off, although that would also have been fully justified had the officials decided to correctly apply the rules. Given that they could’ve been down to 10 or 9 with the score at 1-1 and within half an hour, I think we can consider ourselves very unlucky.

And that’s without even discussing whether or not their goal should have stood. Either way, for the officials to so steadfastly apply the rules but then fail to apply them for the Burn handball is absolutely indefensible.

In fact, there is no part of the referees performance today that is defensible. I dislike to call someone a cheat because it makes me sound exceedingly childish. So I won’t. I’ll refrain from going beyond saying that this referee is absolutely unfit for purpose and shouldn’t be allowed near a premier league (or any other professional) match again until some serious remedial training has been carried out, and significantly improved performance proven. He was utterly, utterly dire.

You mention Howe and his tactics for time wasting. His Saudi Sportswashing Machine side has been the absolute master of stealing time out of the game for a good few seasons now. Unfortaintely they will persevere with it because they make tangible gains as a result of this cheating. It’s a sad indictment of the state of the game that this tactic - which requires massive buy in at every level of the club from the first team manager down - is so widespread and so successful. That said, it requires more than ACTIVE participants; it also requires willing inactive participation. In this case, the much maligned referee, who was absolutely destroyed by Saudi Sportswashing Machine from start to finish. I am sick and tired of seeing officials stopping games for non-head injuries and failing to prevent time wasting at set pieces and during substitutions (including players being told they’re about to be taken off and sprinting to the far side of the field before then being allowed to slowly amble the long way back to the bench upon seeing their number come up). Worst of all from the players, however, is the constant pretence of a head injury when they experience nothing of the sort. These things are so, so easy for the powers-that-be to stop: properly add time on at the end of the game (4 mins first half, 10 mins second half absolutely nowhere near enough), enforce the rules for substitutions whereby players take the shortest route off the pitch, don’t stop the game for a player taking a lie down and retrospective punishment for pretending to have a head injury.

Great post mate and completely agree. I can't remember the Geordie assistant (you know the sunbed tanned prick) but at 10 mins injury time in second half he was pointing to his watch and speaking to the 4th official to blow up, when he knew he had one of his players down for two fudging minutes. You're right it has to be engrained from top to bottom and maybe we just don't want to do that. It frustrates me so much and it can be sorted very easily.

We need to follow rugby in terms of respect, let the refs mics be heard. Only the captain can approach the ref.

We need to sort out time wasting and I've said it before but go to a stop clock where when the ball exits play or play is stopped the time stops. It's easy they just won't do it.

Throw ins and goal kicks are easy too, you simply have 8 seconds from picking up the ball , which is more than enough (I said 6 before but it's probably too little) to take the kick or throw in or it's a corner / throw in to the opposition.

The game is fudged and has been for ages and that's why the enjoyment is less and less each year for me.

 

[stratnumberone]

Great post mate and completely agree. I can't remember the Geordie assistant (you know the sunbed tanned prick) but at 10 mins injury time in second half he was pointing to his watch and speaking to the 4th official to blow up, when he knew he had one of his players down for two fudging minutes. You're right it has to be engrained from top to bottom and maybe we just don't want to do that. It frustrates me so much and it can be sorted very easily.

We need to follow rugby in terms of respect, let the refs mics be heard. Only the captain can approach the ref.

We need to sort out time wasting and I've said it before but go to a stop clock where when the ball exits play or play is stopped the time stops. It's easy they just won't do it.

Throw ins and goal kicks are easy too, you simply have 8 seconds from picking up the ball , which is more than enough (I said 6 before but it's probably too little) to take the kick or throw in or it's a corner / throw in to the opposition.

The game is fudged and has been for ages and that's why the enjoyment is less and less each year for me.

I agree on all counts.

One interesting thing I’ve gauged from speaking to various people is that the time wasting seems to irritate the match-going fan far more than the TV fan. Obviously I’ve only encountered a very small sample size, nonetheless it may give an indication of the feeling regarding time wasting among the wider football population.

For the record, I think that certain elements of ‘game management’ do not constitute time wasting (eg playing the ball into the corner) and are a legitimate - albeit frustrating - aspect of football. The time wasting, however, is cheating pure and simply.

Actually it would help if the media community would dispense with the ridiculous ‘dark arts’ style euphemisms and refer to it as what it is: cheating. It’s stealing time out the game in an illegitimate manner and is rewarding underhand tactics while simultaneously short-changing the fans. Saudi Sportswashing Machine is a Cat A game at Spurs and I don’t think there are any tickets available below the £70 mark. The majority are into the £80s bracket. Broadly speaking that’s £1 per minute: Saudi Sportswashing Machine probably took at least 15 minutes out of the second half alone…

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I just watched the MOTD replay on iPlayer which obviously gives a different perspective to the events mentioned above. That said, even from my seat in North level one it was clear that the referee missed several easy decisions.

Having seen the replays several teams and in slow motion, I have absolutely no idea how neither Burn nor Joelinton was sent off. You could possibly argue that Saudi Sportswashing Machine would’ve been unlucky to have had both sent off, although that would also have been fully justified had the officials decided to correctly apply the rules. Given that they could’ve been down to 10 or 9 with the score at 1-1 and within half an hour, I think we can consider ourselves very unlucky.

And that’s without even discussing whether or not their goal should have stood. Either way, for the officials to so steadfastly apply the rules but then fail to apply them for the Burn handball is absolutely indefensible.

In fact, there is no part of the referees performance today that is defensible. I dislike to call someone a cheat because it makes me sound exceedingly childish. So I won’t. I’ll refrain from going beyond saying that this referee is absolutely unfit for purpose and shouldn’t be allowed near a premier league (or any other professional) match again until some serious remedial training has been carried out, and significantly improved performance proven. He was utterly, utterly dire.

You mention Howe and his tactics for time wasting. His Saudi Sportswashing Machine side has been the absolute master of stealing time out of the game for a good few seasons now. Unfortaintely they will persevere with it because they make tangible gains as a result of this cheating. It’s a sad indictment of the state of the game that this tactic - which requires massive buy in at every level of the club from the first team manager down - is so widespread and so successful. That said, it requires more than ACTIVE participants; it also requires willing inactive participation. In this case, the much maligned referee, who was absolutely destroyed by Saudi Sportswashing Machine from start to finish. I am sick and tired of seeing officials stopping games for non-head injuries and failing to prevent time wasting at set pieces and during substitutions (including players being told they’re about to be taken off and sprinting to the far side of the field before then being allowed to slowly amble the long way back to the bench upon seeing their number come up). Worst of all from the players, however, is the constant pretence of a head injury when they experience nothing of the sort. These things are so, so easy for the powers-that-be to stop: properly add time on at the end of the game (4 mins first half, 10 mins second half absolutely nowhere near enough), enforce the rules for substitutions whereby players take the shortest route off the pitch, don’t stop the game for a player taking a lie down and retrospective punishment for pretending to have a head injury.

I agree but that is all part of "game management" which is praised in media, commentators rarely mention time wasting or the number of time teams conveniently have a player needing medical attention so that the rhythm of the game is broken. Most people attending games can see this but on TV its missed as a replay of incidents are shown and the viewer loses the sense of time play has stopped. Every season we are told the refs will come down on certain elements of the game but after the initial few weeks it's back to the same old nonsense, the refs aren't helped by changing the interpretation of rules so often but they have only themselves to blame for their own incompetence.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I agree on all counts.

One interesting thing I’ve gauged from speaking to various people is that the time wasting seems to irritate the match-going fan far more than the TV fan. Obviously I’ve only encountered a very small sample size, nonetheless it may give an indication of the feeling regarding time wasting among the wider football population.

For the record, I think that certain elements of ‘game management’ do not constitute time wasting (eg playing the ball into the corner) and are a legitimate - albeit frustrating - aspect of football. The time wasting, however, is cheating pure and simply.

Actually it would help if the media community would dispense with the ridiculous ‘dark arts’ style euphemisms and refer to it as what it is: cheating. It’s stealing time out the game in an illegitimate manner and is rewarding underhand tactics while simultaneously short-changing the fans. Saudi Sportswashing Machine is a Cat A game at Spurs and I don’t think there are any tickets available below the £70 mark. The majority are into the £80s bracket. Broadly speaking that’s £1 per minute: Saudi Sportswashing Machine probably took at least 15 minutes out of the second half alone…

Damn beat me to it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arse players also picked up the virus.

Yeah and they spend all their time defending so it makes sense

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Funny how Maddison has more league goals than Johnson this season from a deeper position but you’re not happy with his overall output (or Son’s from last season) but fine with Johnson. I can’t reconcile the asymmetry.

Hold on… your getting two things mixed up again
I’m talking about their defending and you talk goals…. Not sure how your correlating the two

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Hold on… your getting two things mixed up again
I’m talking about their defending and you talk goals…. Not sure how your correlating the two

What's Don Vito Correlating got to do with this?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What's Don Vito Correlating got to do with this?

He would put some of our players and fans out of their misery

 

[Muttley]

I just watched the MOTD replay on iPlayer which obviously gives a different perspective to the events mentioned above. That said, even from my seat in North level one it was clear that the referee missed several easy decisions.

Having seen the replays several teams and in slow motion, I have absolutely no idea how neither Burn nor Joelinton was sent off. You could possibly argue that Saudi Sportswashing Machine would’ve been unlucky to have had both sent off, although that would also have been fully justified had the officials decided to correctly apply the rules. Given that they could’ve been down to 10 or 9 with the score at 1-1 and within half an hour, I think we can consider ourselves very unlucky.

And that’s without even discussing whether or not their goal should have stood. Either way, for the officials to so steadfastly apply the rules but then fail to apply them for the Burn handball is absolutely indefensible.

In fact, there is no part of the referees performance today that is defensible. I dislike to call someone a cheat because it makes me sound exceedingly childish. So I won’t. I’ll refrain from going beyond saying that this referee is absolutely unfit for purpose and shouldn’t be allowed near a premier league (or any other professional) match again until some serious remedial training has been carried out, and significantly improved performance proven. He was utterly, utterly dire.

You mention Howe and his tactics for time wasting. His Saudi Sportswashing Machine side has been the absolute master of stealing time out of the game for a good few seasons now. Unfortaintely they will persevere with it because they make tangible gains as a result of this cheating. It’s a sad indictment of the state of the game that this tactic - which requires massive buy in at every level of the club from the first team manager down - is so widespread and so successful. That said, it requires more than ACTIVE participants; it also requires willing inactive participation. In this case, the much maligned referee, who was absolutely destroyed by Saudi Sportswashing Machine from start to finish. I am sick and tired of seeing officials stopping games for non-head injuries and failing to prevent time wasting at set pieces and during substitutions (including players being told they’re about to be taken off and sprinting to the far side of the field before then being allowed to slowly amble the long way back to the bench upon seeing their number come up). Worst of all from the players, however, is the constant pretence of a head injury when they experience nothing of the sort. These things are so, so easy for the powers-that-be to stop: properly add time on at the end of the game (4 mins first half, 10 mins second half absolutely nowhere near enough), enforce the rules for substitutions whereby players take the shortest route off the pitch, don’t stop the game for a player taking a lie down and retrospective punishment for pretending to have a head injury.

I think it is absolutely OK to call Madley and other referees cheats. Their job is to administer the laws of the game, not ignore. No football stakeholder has ever given a referee permission to not use the laws of the game. This is nothing to do with the 2 clubs in the game of football. This is about dereliction of duties.

If a striker was pretending to shut down a goalkeeper, or trying to win a penalty that would be cheating. What the referees are doing is no different.

 

[Kompakted]

Did I say it was a foul? My entire point is that you can have physical contact in a game without it being a foul / a yellow. It's a contact game and accidents happen with varying degrees of severity. If people want to be ridiculous and wail about supposed injustices, fine but at least own the ridiculousness.

Respectfully I don't know if we really want to get in to this again mate! Does it lead anywhere positive in terms of discourse?

I'm not devastated by the recent performances and I don't think there's some kind of agenda, although I was honestly surprised by the Gordon goal handball (or no handball I should say). Hopefully we all want consistency but no two situations are exactly the same...

100%. People crying about Saudi Sportswashing Machine players throwing their weight around and bullying our goalkeeper should maybe be asking why we weren't doing the same? You play the game and ref you're in, not the one you want to be in. If you've got a ref that let's challenges go then use it to your advantage like Saudi Sportswashing Machine did. If the ref dishes out a yellow in the first 10 mins you know you're in a different game. Its not rocket science it's the same thing on a Sunday on a park.

In the first half we allowed ourselves to be bullied. Second half to be fair I imagine Ange has said similar at half time and we came out and got on top of them physically and our football improved as a result. But we can be so soft in these games and we can be a bunch of whinge-bags as a club. Its what Roy Keane was talking about with the "lads, it's Tottenham" and while I think Poch and maybe Redknapp managed to shift the mentality, I think under Ange we do look very naive and inexperienced at times and you could absolutely apply the Roy Keane description to many games we play: "we know what Spurs are about, they're nice and tidy on the ball, but we'll f**king do them". If I'm being honest, that's Angeball in the PL right now: "nice and tidy on the ball, lots of chances and goals, but we'll lose 70% of our games"

And I'm sick of the victim mentality seeping into the club currently. Whether it's moaning about the injuries or the hand ball. If we hadn't played a hospital pass to Bergvall on the edge of our own box which he's had to stretch for and hit straight towards their pressing player the hand ball debate wouldn't even be a thing....

 

[Muttley]

Great post mate and completely agree. I can't remember the Geordie assistant (you know the sunbed tanned prick) but at 10 mins injury time in second half he was pointing to his watch and speaking to the 4th official to blow up, when he knew he had one of his players down for two fudging minutes. You're right it has to be engrained from top to bottom and maybe we just don't want to do that. It frustrates me so much and it can be sorted very easily.

We need to follow rugby in terms of respect, let the refs mics be heard. Only the captain can approach the ref.

We need to sort out time wasting and I've said it before but go to a stop clock where when the ball exits play or play is stopped the time stops. It's easy they just won't do it.

Throw ins and goal kicks are easy too, you simply have 8 seconds from picking up the ball , which is more than enough (I said 6 before but it's probably too little) to take the kick or throw in or it's a corner / throw in to the opposition.

The game is fudged and has been for ages and that's why the enjoyment is less and less each year for me.

Amen to that. The game is dull as ditchwater because the officials have let the dark arts overtake the skill in the game.

They need to just administer to the letter of the law, and then we can get behind them again.

 

[Juicebox]

Teams need to start countering the time-wasting feigning of injuries to stop play. Perhaps competing for drop balls, or not giving the ball back when kicked out.

I have noticed that refs are calling on the trainer much sooner when a player goes down to obviously break up momentum of play. Meaning the player that needs to be treated will need to spend 30 seconds off the pitch.

One of the guys that sits near me suggested that the player spends the amount of time off the pitch that the game was stopped for.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I think it is absolutely OK to call Madley and other referees cheats. Their job is to administer the laws of the game, not ignore. No football stakeholder has ever given a referee permission to not use the laws of the game. This is nothing to do with the 2 clubs in the game of football. This is about dereliction of duties.

If a striker was pretending to shut down a goalkeeper, or trying to win a penalty that would be cheating. What the referees are doing is no different.

On another point which really boils my tinkle is that refs in the same game insist that a freekick is taken from a precise spot at one time and then let one be taken several yards away at another. Last week v Wolves the ref gave them a freekick on the corner of our box marched his idea of 10 yards (or whatever, who knows?) Got his toy out a drew a line which at it furthest point was about 2 yards further back, if they had scored I'd have been livid, but hey the pundits would have had a good laugh (if they noticed).

 

[Mikey10]

Just watched the MOTD coverage of the game. Burn should probably have gone, and Joelinton was certainly walking a tightrope at best. The Kulu challenge on Gordon was ugly too though. I’m not 100% convinced it was entirely accidental.

Away from the potential sendings off, I would be starting Bergvall against Liverpool. Others who have come in as forced cover (Spence and Reggie) have done enough for me to be used much more frequently, even when this current injury crisis abates.

It was good to see us clearing our lines a few times when we were under pressure in the first half; just a shame we didn’t launch it before conceding the first goal.

 

[Muttley]

On another point which really boils my tinkle is that refs in the same game insist that a freekick is taken from a precise spot at one time and then let one be taken several yards away at another. Last week v Wolves the ref gave them a freekick on the corner of our box marched his idea of 10 yards (or whatever, who knows?) Got his toy out a drew a line which at it furthest point was about 2 yards further back, if they had scored I'd have been livid, but hey the pundits would have had a good laugh (if they noticed).

Yes, it's a cultural problem in PGMOL that has existed for years. I actually though Howard Webb would clean up that culture that strongly existed under Mike Riley. He hasn't so far.

I think it is perfectly OK for this organisation to come under intense scrutiny every single week until they start performing. The managers need to speak up, just like Klopp and Arteta did.

I wonder what Howard Webb thought of Ange's interview yesterday and those repeated words. If I were Ange, I would have just said that the club is expecting Howard Webb to visit the club during the week and talk about his team's performance over this season. Then mentioned that referees are now impacting the league table. Fight fire with fire.