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OMT ***Tottenham Hotspur v Manchester United***

DubaiSpur said:
Hardly. My point was that it takes that sort of side to win the league, unless you're a fairytale like Leicester - and we have *never* been lucky enough to be a fairytale, so we need to be as strong as City. But people discount the cups with mindless ease because they think that we can win the league playing like we did today - which isn't true, and will never be true until we have enough quality in the side to be able to cope with injuries and occasionally switching off.



My point was that @billyiddo 's reading of the game was inaccurate - it wasn't even. We were worse than they were throughout the second half - second to everything. And we were punished for it. A draw would have been something we would have been relieved by - which hardly speaks of an even, level game.



The coach didn't send out his strongest side - he sent out a patched up side after disparaging the cups in general, and the competition in particular beforehand. He did nothing in the second half as we utterly switched off and went 3-2 down - and the conservation of mental energy ultimately didn't help today either. We were unlucky, fine margins, Alli scores and it's a different game - true, partly, but if my aunty had b*llocks...well, you know the rest. Point is, he made a choice, prioritising this game over the Carabao Cup game, and lost both - if you prioritize results in the league over results in the cups, get the damn result, which we didn't do today.



There is precious little when it comes to the cups. They're dismissed and belittled with none of the nuance that you're demanding we afford to Poch for losing a game like this.
As I said, it's my big gripe with Poch, and it won't go away. A man who has won nothing whatsoever cannot be picky. A club which has won nearly nothing in a quarter of a century cannot afford to be picky. And if you choose to be picky despite that, accept the damn blame and move on.
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I think Poch absolutely can be picky considering what he has done for us...but I don’t even think he is being.

His whole thing being here has been to change our mentality, to get us believing we are a top club rather than a top 6 ‘Cup side’. He is reinforcing that message every chance he gets. He isn’t saying he doesn’t want to win them, but he’s trying to get the players to raise their standards. It’s acrually very, very obvious what he is doing.

Anyway, we’ve got to a League Cup final and a FA Cup semi under him, so what justification do you have to say he ‘throws’ them. It’s rubbish.
 
There is precious little when it comes to the cups. They're dismissed and belittled with none of the nuance that you're demanding we afford to Poch for losing a game like this.
As I said, it's my big gripe with Poch, and it won't go away. A man who has won nothing whatsoever cannot be picky. A club which has won nearly nothing in a quarter of a century cannot afford to be picky. And if you choose to be picky despite that, accept the damn blame and move on.
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We rested a handful of players, with good squad players deserving of game time coming in. In a league cup game in between games against Liverpool, Man United and Real Madrid. Even with some rotation we've suffered an injury to a key player. An injury that heavier rotation might have prevented.

There's no room to prioritize the Premier League and Champions League over the league cup in this manner? That's a lack of nuance about the cup. Accepting some priorities being made in a situation like this is nuanced.
 
harr1984 said:
Well I'd had have Martial over any of our backup forwards. I'm pretty sure Mata trumps a lot of our backups too, that's without giving it much thought....
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some of them sure, I rate De Gea as the best in the game, but I meant overall, our squad is stronger
 
And @DubaiSpur ....what is your point about Emirates Marketing Project? That they’ve been able to spend more on their squad? NSS...

And as for Poch not playing our strongest side against West Ham...well no. Of course not! Are you saying he’s unable to rotate in the middle of a month we play Real twice, Liverpool, United, I’m sure I’m forgetting some tough games against top sides we’ve had or that are still to come.

You’re ranting about nothing...I get it, you want to win a cup. As do we all. And if you want to believe a manager that is all about standards would ever throw a game, more power to you. But it just isn’t true.
 
harr1984 said:
Poch. Many in here have said more bothered about getting in CL than winning a trophy too....
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I don't know how many times people need it pointing out to them but saying that the PL and CL are bigger priorities than the FA and League cup doesn't mean you don't care about the cups, it just means you're right of mind
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I think Poch absolutely can be picky considering what he has done for us...but I don’t even think he is being.

His whole thing being here has been to change our mentality, to get us believing we are a top club rather than a top 6 ‘Cup side’. He is reinforcing that message every chance he gets. He isn’t saying he doesn’t want to win them, but he’s trying to get the players to raise their standards. It’s acrually very, very obvious what he is doing.

Anyway, we’ve got to a League Cup final and a FA Cup semi under him, so what justification do you have to say he ‘throws’ them. It’s rubbish.
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"It would mean nothing for me to win the League Cup or the FA Cup even though they are important. For me, the principal reason I am here is to try to challenge for the Premier League and the Champions League, to compete in the best competition in the world." - Mauricio Pochettino, August 19, 2017.

"If we forget those two, it's a big mistake. For a big team to win trophies, it means the Premier League or Champions League. Wigan won the FA Cup. Where is Wigan now? League One. That is the most important example." - September 18, 2017.

"I would like to win the Carabao Cup. But I think it will not change the life of Tottenham. If you want to be a big team and if you want to fight for big things, it's impossible if you don't use all the squad and rotate in England. I think we need to teach our fans because it's so difficult to fight for four competitions." - October 24, 2017.

The selection against Arsenal in 2015. The selection against Liverpool in 2016. The selection against West Ham mid-week.

These are my gripes - my only gripes - with Mauricio Pochettino. I'm angry and disappointed every time he dismisses a trophy he has never won in an attempt to 'raise standards'. And although he's earned the right to do it (tenfold), I will subsequently expect that at least that sort of throwaway is justified - because it is a *big* throwaway, in my opinion.

And when he goes and loses the next game in the 'more important' competition, it does not reflect well on him or his policy of prioritization. He deserves a bit of stick for that.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
And @DubaiSpur ....what is your point about Emirates Marketing Project? That they’ve been able to spend more on their squad? NSS....
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My point is that you need that sort of squad to play like we did today and still win the league. Players are human - I don't expect them to be switched on every game for an entire season, nor do I expect injuries to somehow *not* occur. But to cover up for that, you need a damn good squad that can use its quality to bail you out when you're switched off.

We do not have that type of squad, and so our quest to win the league will always start off on the wrong foot until we spend the dosh that is necessary or somehow build that squad in absence of that money being spent. But our fans who dismiss the cups as beneath us don't seem to realize that, is my point.
 
billyiddo said:
I don't know how many times people need it pointing out to them but saying that the PL and CL are bigger priorities than the FA and League cup doesn't mean you don't care about the cups, it just means you're right of mind
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Dress it up how you want, it's the same thing. You pick a half baked team for the league cup,say how you're only really bothered about league and CL and it filters down. The attendances are massively down, and the players attitudes lack the intensity of normal. Yes we was 2-0 up, but bar one or two moves we had still played played poorly. He might aswell just sent out a proper reserve side. He does care about the FA cup, from what I've seen he's played stronger sides for that competition....
 
harr1984 said:
Dress it up how you want, it's the same thing. You pick a half baked team for the league cup,say how you're only really bothered about league and CL and it filters down. The attendances are massively down, and the players attitudes lack the intensity of normal. Yes we was 2-0 up, but bar one or two moves we had still played played poorly. He might aswell just sent out a proper reserve side. He does care about the FA cup, from what I've seen he's played stronger sides for that competition....
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No it isn't the same thing that's the bloody point - he/we treat the cups the same as every other side - rotated team in the league cup and early rounds of FA when able and progressively stronger sides as the competition wares on and you have a more likely chance of winning - same as everyone else.
 
galeforce said:
I wouldn’t swap with them personally
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Yes I agree, but Llorente is not of the quality United can call on from the bench!
Llorente has looked very poor/long in the tooth?
I would like a better option for when we are without our top players!
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Do you mean the free kick in the first half? The one that was going wide but hugo didn’t know and dealt with it?

That was their only shot on target in that half
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Nah, the Lukaku one - from wide. Lloris palmed it across goal, and no one was following up in the middle or on the far side as it flew across the line.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Nah, the Lukaku one - from wide. Lloris palmed it across goal, and no one was following up in the middle or on the far side as it flew across the line.
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Ah... I think that’s the one after the Davies clearance but thought he got his foot to it

Either way it was a save I agree
 
StephenH said:
Yes I agree, but Llorente is not of the quality United can call on from the bench!
Llorente has looked very poor/long in the tooth?
I would like a better option for when we are without our top players!
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every squad can be improved certainly
 
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