*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Manchester United ***

[SpurMeUp]

Not one fan has complained about us winning

About the manner in which we won.

 

[Bishop]

When you state that we can't be taken seriously it is undermining, and its naive.

The way we play now with the players we have currently we can't be. You see where we sit in the table, you've watched the matches. We aren't a serious outfit yet. By serious I mean the very best at the top of table challenging for the league. We aren't that yet, if you think we are you're the one who is naive.

We are what we are for now, with time I think it can change but I'm not gonna pretend that reality is different from what it actually is.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Not one fan has complained about us winning

No but they are the type of people who would moan if they won the Lottery that the number did not come out in the order they had on their ticket.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The way we play now with the players we have currently we can't be.

We can. And despite an extensive injury list we’re winning games. Can I take you seriously? I certainly take Postecoglou a lot more seriously than the snipers.

You see where we sit in the table, you've watched the matches. We aren't a serious outfit yet. By serious I mean the very best at the top of table challenging for the league. We aren't that yet, if you think we are you're the one who is naive.

We’ve been that side fleetingly once or twice in 20 years. Losing Kane we’re now rebuilding. Do you suffer delusions of grandeur?

We are what we are for now, with time I think it can change but I'm not gonna pretend that reality is different from what it actually is.

Part of this is on supporters who were so close to undermining a very decent manager. Some, like Slot, can see it. And understand there is a vision and that we’re work in progress. Others - even our own fans - don’t take us seriously.

 

[Baleforce]

Don't think so, United has a real problem up front and their defending sucks

- They had two gifted goals (rooster ups from FF) and a set piece goal
- We had 3 goals from open play and one set piece goals (rooster up from their keeper)

On another day, both keepers do better and it's a 3-1 game, I'm not sure what variable (other than hope) shows United were in with a chance of winning, lets be clear if FF had not roostered up the first goal, none of their others would have followed and the game probably ends 3-0.

I think 3 of ours were rooster ups, just as bad as what Forster did, the keeper dropped one, missed one, and a defender couldn't have setup Kulu any better had he wanted to.

Only Solanke's second was a good goal.

 

[Raziel]

I think 3 of ours were rooster ups, just as bad as what Forster did, the keeper dropped one, missed one, and a defender couldn't have setup Kulu any better had he wanted to.

Only Solanke's second was a good goal.

Again disagree, understanding that almost every goal has some level of mistake

- Goal one, strong shot low to keeper, he wasn't going to hold it, Solanke simply read play/better positioned/reacted faster, that's not great defending but it's not a fudge up/giveaway
- Goal two, Son and Maddison one-two and do their defense, defender unable to adjust to clear appropriately, again, well placed attacker reacts first
- Goal three, pass to break lines with well time striker run, striker beats defender
- Goal 4, set piece that keeper misjudged completely, fudge up/gift

None of those are -> keeper passes ball to nowhere in 6 yard box or keeper waits till attacker is on him then boots it off him into goal level of fudge up

 

[Jordinho]

It is funny, when our own fans complain about us winning. Slot - who many seem to think is the answer - gets it. He can see the wood for the trees, unlike a lot of our supporters.


Slot believes Spurs were unfortunate not to beat United by a bigger margin in their quarter-final and questioned how Postecoglou can be considered under pressure at a club that is not synonymous with silverware. “I don’t think there are many season-ticket holders in the country that can say they watch so many great games. Maybe the ones at Liverpool!” said Slot.

“I think it is a privilege to be a season ticket holder at Tottenham at the moment because they play such a great style and it’s not like since Ange arrived they don’t win anything any more. Before that they were not a club that won many things, but they always won the sympathy of the fans in Europe, maybe also in England as well, I don’t know, because of the style of play they had. That is something you cannot underestimate.

“If I think about Spurs, I think about the shirt, the playing style and their identity and certain players. For me, he brought that back completely. I’ve said so many positive things about Ange now that if I say another thing it will seem like I’m his agent!”

Let's hope it has the same effect as Russell Martin praising Ange.

 

[Bishop]

We can. And despite an extensive injury list we’re winning games. Can I take you seriously? I certainly take Postecoglou a lot more seriously than the snipers.

We’ve been that side fleetingly once or twice in 20 years. Losing Kane we’re now rebuilding. Do you suffer delusions of grandeur?

Part of this is on supporters who were so close to undermining a very decent manager. Some, like Slot, can see it. And understand there is a vision and that we’re work in progress. Others - even our own fans - don’t take us seriously.

What's wrong with you?

You agree we aren't a side challenging for the title, you agree we aren't a serious side yet why are you upset at me stating this.

I can't undermine the manager, I'm a man on a message board talking about Spurs. I'm also an Ange inner so again what are you complaining about exactly? Supporting Ange is not being deluded as to what we are currently.

I don't find myself particularly upset about our results or performances because it's what I expect of this side at this point in time. That doesn't mean I can't asses where I think we can progress I mean that's the point after all.

 

[Baleforce]

Again disagree, understanding that almost every goal has some level of mistake

- Goal one, strong shot low to keeper, he wasn't going to hold it, Solanke simply read play/better positioned/reacted faster, that's not great defending but it's not a fudge up/giveaway
- Goal two, Son and Maddison one-two and do their defense, defender unable to adjust to clear appropriately, again, well placed attacker reacts first
- Goal three, pass to break lines with well time striker run, striker beats defender
- Goal 4, set piece that keeper misjudged completely, fudge up/gift

None of those are -> keeper passes ball to nowhere in 6 yard box or keeper waits till attacker is on him then boots it off him into goal level of fudge up

Keepers are supposed to be able to get their body behind the ball and make saves, get the ball safe, that’s 99% of their job.

They are not supposed to be involved in passing.

 

[thfcsteff]

Keepers are supposed to be able to get their body behind the ball and make saves, get the ball safe, that’s 99% of their job.

They are not supposed to be involved in passing.

...this statement is brought to you courtesy of the 1970s...

 

[thfcsteff]

I look at our club objectively, unlike most of our supporters. We are presently 10th for a reason. Utd won 2 trophies with a weaker squad because our manager is hopeless, although I would love to be proved wrong going forward. The fact is we play a system without any real tactics. This means we will have some great results, but at the same time we will have some dreadful ones. What matters is how many we end up losing, drawing, and winning, and I believe the ultimate outcome won't be favourable.

Absolutely untrue.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yep, I think that is how we get better and better though. I've never been one of those that can't accept logical arguments on how we improve even when we do well. That is the path in life to winning things. Some fans just get on the defensive if you dare to put a point across after you've won a game. I have to remind them it's them being negative, not me. I'm just suggesting ways of positive improvement. I want trophies.

By the way, doesn't mean I don't enjoy the goals and the wins. There are still 3 holes in the ceiling last night in my local where we watched the game. The 3 of us Spurs fans had a right giggle, but could have done without the 2nd half drama. In fact my mate said at one point that Ange would be gone in the morning if we lost that 3-0 lead. I didn't agree, but we were definitely all angry about how it unfolded.

Speakijng for myself, the reason I disagreed with your criticisms is because (to my eye) they did not fit what actually happened more than they seemed to ride the narrative that occurs every time an Ange side concedes a goal. The narratives don't match the facts. Only Arsenal and Liverpool have conceded LESS premier league goals than us this season. Only Chelsea have scored MORE premier league goals.

 

[SpurMeUp]

What's wrong with you?

You agree we aren't a side challenging for the title, you agree we aren't a serious side

No I don’t agree.

yet why are you upset at me stating this.

Because it’s undermining. And because it’s nonsense. It shows your analysis can’t be taken seriously.

I can't undermine the manager, I'm a man on a message board talking about Spurs. I'm also an Ange inner so again what are you complaining about exactly? Supporting Ange is not being deluded as to what we are currently.

Fans can and have undermined the manager. Stating nonsense like we can’t be taken seriously is pathetic.

I don't find myself particularly upset about our results or performances because it's what I expect of this side at this point in time. That doesn't mean I can't asses where I think we can progress I mean that's the point after all.

Now you’re contradicting yourself and backtracking.

 

[Bishop]

No I don’t agree.

Because it’s undermining. And because it’s nonsense. It shows your analysis can’t be taken seriously.

Fans can and have undermined the manager. Stating nonsense like we can’t be taken seriously is pathetic.

Now you’re contradicting yourself and backtracking.

No. Go find my posts where I said I was upset. Go find where I spat venom about Ange.

Is English your first language? Do you understand subtly and subtext? This is what I said in the post that offended you

"There is a happy medium somewhere between the two extremes of Conte and Ange. Ange isn't a million miles off that but we are a bit too gung ho"

Does that really read to you as someone who is undermining the manager? Does that read as someone frothing at the mouth and demanding he gets the sack?

Ok next post

I get (that) you (are) overly optimistic and want to only see the positives but there is a middle ground. We aren't brick but we also aren't great.

Again you red this and really thought im super unhappy with how things are going?

And finally.

You see where we sit in the table, you've watched the matches. We aren't a serious outfit yet. By serious I mean the very best at the top of table challenging for the league. We aren't that yet, if you think we are you're the one who is naive.

We are what we are for now, with time I think it can change but I'm not gonna pretend that reality is different from what it actually is.

So sorry, where have I backtracked? I've always given space for the idea that we can progress and that we are not yet the finished article.

That somehow offends you, so that must mean you think we are the finished article. Shouldn't you then be the one upset that we aren't top of the table with a perfect record in that case? Because I've always consistently said we don't yet have the players capable of playing Ange's system to the standard required. You must think otherwise?

 

[Muttley]

Speakijng for myself, the reason I disagreed with your criticisms is because (to my eye) they did not fit what actually happened more than they seemed to ride the narrative that occurs every time an Ange side concedes a goal. The narratives don't match the facts. Only Arsenal and Liverpool have conceded LESS premier league goals than us this season. Only Chelsea have scored MORE premier league goals.

Actually what got lost in the discussion was that my point was made about being 3-0 up in the cup, and that part was totally forgotten in the points coming back. You've done a little of that above quoting the league table defensive record. I totally get all that, but game management in that scenario needed to be different than it played out.

There is also another subtlety to this as well. We don't have Kane deliberately jumping under high balls and avoiding buffeting with the centre halves anymore. We have prime Solanke who is very likely to make a bad ball good. He's physical and he's quick and fantastically keen. Net, net is that we know Forster has an expectation on him to use his feet in Ange's system. I just wish he'd remembered the Peter Kay advert and shouted "ave it" as he put his foot through it.

I have a feeling that a little more directness has crept back into the game recently at the top end of the league. In my mind, it's actually OK to mix it up. Playing 5-a-side football from your goal to theirs is easy on the eye, but there's nothing like a long punt forward, a defensive mistake and your centre forward capitalising with a goal. Fans love it.

I hope Ange and Fraser have had a great discussion about what happened. I hope the manager has simplified things for him in his head so we don't get a repeat. Venom is out for a while longer yet.

 

[Kandi1977]

On the flip side of that, taking a veteran keeper and asking him to do unnatural things is just plain dumb.

He's been doing it just fine until that moment. It was just a mistake. He didn't look up and see that Bruno was right there. And that mistake affected him, and caused the 2nd one. It happens. He's not being asked to be Pirlo and spread magnificent passes left, right and centre. He's asked to make simple, short passes or chip it medium range, or just whack it when necessary. He's done it totally fine in the previous games. This was just unlucky. He's perfectly capable of doing it.
Neuer has played for over a decade for a team that askes a lot more from the GK, and he's pretty good on the ball, but ain't no Neymar. Most of the time he's OK, but he's made mistakes like Forster many times. It happens.

 

[Kandi1977]

How many would we need to lead by in the 1st leg to think we have a chance to go through at Anfield?

If we let the current 13th best team into a game under zero pressure, you've got to wonder how the system will fair against good opposition.

It is a future problem, don't get me wrong it's great to pick up two wins and the accompanying momentum, but the players are so very frail in their mentality, we need leaders who settle the younger players down to enable them to flourish, yet it's the experienced ones who are bricking the bed.

Does away goals count in this competition? If they do, I'd take a 1-0 win at home, followed by a 4-3 loss, with them having an 95th minute winner chalked off for offside.
Brings back a few memories that

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Does away goals count in this competition? If they do, I'd take a 1-0 win at home, followed by a 4-3 loss, with them having an 95th minute winner chalked off for offside.
Brings back a few memories that

Think that got taken away

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He's been doing it just fine until that moment. It was just a mistake. He didn't look up and see that Bruno was right there. And that mistake affected him, and caused the 2nd one. It happens. He's not being asked to be Pirlo and spread magnificent passes left, right and centre. He's asked to make simple, short passes or chip it medium range, or just whack it when necessary. He's done it totally fine in the previous games. This was just unlucky. He's perfectly capable of doing it.
Neuer has played for over a decade for a team that askes a lot more from the GK, and he's pretty good on the ball, but ain't no Neymar. Most of the time he's OK, but he's made mistakes like Forster many times. It happens.

Exactly
If your asking someone to do something that clearly is unnatural to them they will have moments of weakness
I see it at work when I try to train experience people in new ways of working. They do fumble every now and then but I would still use them and employ them every time

 

[Mikey10]

The latest View From the Lane has the best summation of this game that I’ve read or heard: two deeply flawed teams going at each other.

Made me chuckle, but pretty accurate.