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**Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**

Jurgen the German said:
Goals change games, sorry for the cliche but it's the most important position in a football team.

Their midfield has improved, but they are still poor defensively and their goalkeeping has got worse.

We've lost players too but they don't have any world class players anymore. Last season, we had a better team and squad, but they had that one great player. This season, the teams are fairly even, but Bale gives us a slight edge.
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my initial point, was aimed at people saying : "well this season Arsenal have lost their striker so we should be looking to finish above them" - as it has turned out they are in fact a better team than last season (which is backed up by their league performance this season) so the logic of - they are going to be weaker so we have to finish above them or it is a failure - is flawed.

they improved on last seasons team, we have not - in fact it's almost a strange role reversal an under performing team carried by one individual vs a better all round side.

except both times Arsenal look to be finishing above us ](*,)
 
billyiddo said:
im not talking about taking out a player from last seasons team and looking at how they would have done - im talking about losing a player and then moving forward

Wheelchair returned to negate the loss of Song, giving them a midfield 3 of Wheelchair Arteta and Carzola
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They moved forward because they have the will power and drive to move forward and rarely just accept defeat. They lost their 2 best players (one being the heartbeat and engine that you speak about) and worked out another way to play attractive football and more importantly win games.Wheelchair tbh hasn't even been that good and has been injured a lot. They still won games quite comfortably without him and still play the same brand of football.

The facts are:

1) Arsenal lost their best player who scored over 30 goals in a season and saved them time and time again last season (like Bale has done with us) and they also lost their "heartbeat and engine" who was their standout midfielder.

2) We lost our "heartbeat and engine" as well as a very good attacking option (who lets face it, would never have survived with AVB's closing down tactics)


So either way we both lost important players but it's effected us more then it has them.
 
Arsenal are better this season even without Van persie imo they have replaced him with a collective strike force of Walcott, Giroud and Podolski who whilst individually are not better than RVP, collectively they have achieved pretty much the same. Add to that they have signed Cazorla who is better than what they had in midfield last season. Additionally they have been better collectively in defence than last season probably the "bould effect" The table does not lie. Don't give me this guff about will to win when they lost to both blackburn and bradford in the cups. That's no greater than our team - they are just more defensively resilient.
 
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kanoute16 said:
Absolute rubbish, 7 points ahead and within a fortnight it was reduced to one point because we lost our next two games, one against a brick Fulham team who rolled over to both our competitors for 4th.
How is that not throwing it away?

I know there is a love-in here for AVB but his tactics at times, not to mention his substitutions, have been terrible. We are slow, static and predictable. This is all down to AVB.
Our strikers have been very poor this season, that's down to Levy.
Yes we can go on about how far we have come, but ultimately this season has been disappointing after it promised to be so good.
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Sorry, I know this is a few pages ago but I have to ask, how on earth can you say his subs were terrible? Are you just saying it because being a football fan on the Internet you feel you have to complain about them?

I wouldn't usually be so 'funny' about this, but there is literally nothing you can say to back up the statement that his subs have been terrible. The amount of times his changes have won the matches for us is considerable. Seriously. Terrible statement.
 
billyiddo said:
my initial point, was aimed at people saying : "well this season Arsenal have lost their striker so we should be looking to finish above them" - as it has turned out they are in fact a better team than last season (which is backed up by their league performance this season) so the logic of - they are going to be weaker so we have to finish above them or it is a failure - is flawed.

they improved on last seasons team, we have not - in fact it's almost a strange role reversal an under performing team carried by one individual vs a better all round side.

except both times Arsenal look to be finishing above us ](*,)
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I'm saying the loss of Van Persie is bigger than the loss of Modric or Van Der Vaart.

Granted King is a huge miss from the club just through his presence, but he was rapidly deteriorating last season with each game from January onwards.

We've lost players, we've added Dembele, Vertonghen and Lloris, one of the best keepers in the world.
 
Robspur12 said:
Arsenal are better this season even without Van persie imo they have replaced him with a collective strike force of Walcott, Giroud and Podolski who whilst individually are not better than RVP, collectively they have achieved pretty much the same. Add to that they have signed Cazorla who is better than what they had in midfield last season. Additionally they have been better collectively in defence than last season probably the "bould effect" The table does not lie. Don't give me this guff about will to win when they lost to both blackburn and bradford in the cups. That's no greater than our team - they are just more defensively resilient.
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I really don't think they are much better in defense. The stats say they are, but talk to their fans, they will tell you they still make far too many errors. Vermaelen has had his worse season in an Arsenal shirt. Left back is still a problem for them.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I'm saying the loss of Van Persie is bigger than the loss of Modric or Van Der Vaart.

Granted King is a huge miss from the club just through his presence, but he was rapidly deteriorating last season with each game from January onwards.

We've lost players, we've added Dembele, Vertonghen and Lloris, one of the best keepers in the world.
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Sorry mate I disagree. If you look at it from a Player point of view that is too simplistic. Yes RVP is better than what we lost. But they replaced him collectively with the 3 strikers inc playing Walcott through the middle. We did not replace the playmaker role hence we are weaker.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I'm saying the loss of Van Persie is bigger than the loss of Modric or Van Der Vaart.

Granted King is a huge miss from the club just through his presence, but he was rapidly deteriorating last season with each game from January onwards.

We've lost players, we've added Dembele, Vertonghen and Lloris, one of the best keepers in the world.
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what prompted my initial post was this quote from you earlier :

But I still think Arsenal were there for the taking this season as well
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they weren't there for the taking at all - it may have appeared that way when they lost RvP - but they have become a better team despite his loss - so this idea that we should be over taking them this season is flawed



Jurgen the German said:
Don't wanna put words in his mouth, but basically I think he's saying they've dealt with the loss of players better than we have.
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i know, i agree, that's what ive been saying all along
 
billyiddo said:
what prompted my initial post was this quote from you earlier :



they weren't there for the taking at all - it may have appeared that way when they lost RvP - but they have become a better team despite his loss - so this idea that we should be over taking them this season is flawed
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They mave have improved as a team, but I would give us a very slight edge overall, hence why I think we should finish above them, especially with a 7 point lead at the beginning of March.
 
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