Next Spurs Manager v.2

[NWND]

He'd use Sandro like he does Wanyama, as a midfield destroyer in certain games...

 

[braineclipse]

Thanks for these...any idea on how reliable Greg Stobart is? Has he got similar pronouncements wrong??[-o<

Stobart is one of the most trustworthy British football journalists around.

I'm sure he's gotten stuff wrong in the past, like anyone that dares to have an opinion on what's going to happen before it's being made official. At the very least he doesn't seem to make stuff up, he has sources and I think he has good reason to believe what he says when he says it. He's also a Spurs fan and isn't interested in stirring up **** for the club.

It's not gospel, but for me at least he's one of the few sources that's worth listening to.

Not quite as deep as the other 2 I mentioned though? :ross:

I used Sandro as an example but I dont think that Paulinho, Holtby or Capoue would be suited greatly to that style either. I'm not adverse to it at all, I think he could do well here but if he is appointed then people need to be realistic in that it might have to involve transfer upheaval to get players in that are a bit more suited to what he wants and that it will take time to get the style similar to what we see from Southampton.

Can't comment on Wanyama tbh, haven't noticed him much at all which probably reinforces your point.

In buildup play there's not much difference between the involvement of a defensive midfielder and a centre back. Arguably there's more demand on a full back than a defensive midfielder. Particularly if teams split their centre backs and push their full backs fairly high up the pitch.

Disagree completely about Holtby by the way, he strikes me as the kind of player that would suit Pochettino perfectly.

 

[braineclipse]

Pochettino is the only name on the contenders list who is gettable and acceptable. I would be happy with the appointment.

But my GHod, it's just so, so unnecessary and such, such a big risk.

Anyone worried about 2nd season syndrome with him? We've seen it over and over again with teams, players and managers like this. Great one season, bomb the next. I find it weird that people big up the fact he's "experienced", and yet here we are on the cusp of appointing him and I'll bet none of you can put your hand on your heart and say you're sure that experience is in any way transferable to Spurs. The fact is we really, really don't know - he's had 1 full season in the PL.

Anyone worried that getting Southampton to 8th is good, but not quite as good as the stellar reviews suggest? He's 6 points above Saudi Sportswashing Machine and 9 above Palace, both of whom have played a game less; by the weekend Saudi Sportswashing Machine could be within 3 points and Palace 6 points. I also suspect he's spent considerably more money than Pardew or Pulis/Holloway. Both Palace and Saudi Sportswashing Machine have been toilet this season. Fwiw Southampton are 14 points behind Spurs.

Spurs GD: +3. SCBC GD: +7. They've scored exactly the same number of goals as us, and have shipped 4 fewer...so that's the difference of 1 game. They've basically been leaking goals as catastrophically as we have. Anyone who's been bleating on about our defence this season and is looking at Poch to fix the problem might be disappointed. Scoring was a huge problem for us half the season, but we've exactly matched SCBC, who have a plethora of in-form strikers and scorers from midfield.

In their last 10 games they've:
- Lost 0-1 to Cardiff, 4-1 to City, 3-0 to Liverpool, 3-1 to West Ham and 3-2 to Spurs....That's 13 goals shipped.
- They've beaten Palace, Norwich, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Everton (with 2 ogs).
- They drew 0-0 with Villa

This is the immediate context of the Pochettino bandwagon. Phew.

I've seen people say he promotes youth. Meh, that is as much by necessity and the good fortune of Southampton's amazing youth structure as anything. He won't have that at Spurs (and if he does, it'll be with Sherwood's lads). We don't know Poch's youth strategy.

Transfers. Last summer he spent £40m on Osvaldo, Wanyamma and Lovren. Two good ones, one howler, £40m. Anyone can make misjudgements in the transfer market, but let's not pretend this is some kind of Dario Gradi situation. That's proper wedge.


I like him because he's young, he kinda feels Spurs, and Southampton have been good. I have a feeling he's the real deal, but it is only a vague notion. It's a complete punt. I simply do not see the clear margin over Sherwood. A slight margin? Maybe. Perhaps even quite a big margin. But when you net out the risks to the downside, the margin diminishes to the point of not being worth speaking about.

Again all of these risks you mention depends on who you're comparing him to.

Yeah, second season (in the Premier League) syndrome. With Sherwood we're still worried about first season syndrome, never mind second. This was Southampton's "difficult second season" in the Premier League and I find it hard to think of many examples where finishing 8th in the second season back in the PL isn't considered a success.

Actually Crystal Palace has had a net spend of slightly over £25m this season (transfermarkt). Easily comparable to Southampton. What Pulis has done has been super impressive, but with him there would be other issues.

What is your feeling on Sherwood?

I don't quite get your risk assessment. Why is there a lower risk of failure under Sherwood? Is it just the cost of bringing in Pochettino that worries you? Or is there something I'm not understanding here?

If there is "perhaps even quite a big margin" between the two how about the risk involved in going for/keeping the lower rated of the two?

 

[Daisuk]

Pochettino is the only name on the contenders list who is gettable and acceptable. I would be happy with the appointment.

But my GHod, it's just so, so unnecessary and such, such a big risk.

Anyone worried about 2nd season syndrome with him? We've seen it over and over again with teams, players and managers like this. Great one season, bomb the next. I find it weird that people big up the fact he's "experienced", and yet here we are on the cusp of appointing him and I'll bet none of you can put your hand on your heart and say you're sure that experience is in any way transferable to Spurs. The fact is we really, really don't know - he's had 1 full season in the PL.

Anyone worried that getting Southampton to 8th is good, but not quite as good as the stellar reviews suggest? He's 6 points above Saudi Sportswashing Machine and 9 above Palace, both of whom have played a game less; by the weekend Saudi Sportswashing Machine could be within 3 points and Palace 6 points. I also suspect he's spent considerably more money than Pardew or Pulis/Holloway. Both Palace and Saudi Sportswashing Machine have been toilet this season. Fwiw Southampton are 14 points behind Spurs.

Spurs GD: +3. SCBC GD: +7. They've scored exactly the same number of goals as us, and have shipped 4 fewer...so that's the difference of 1 game. They've basically been leaking goals as catastrophically as we have. Anyone who's been bleating on about our defence this season and is looking at Poch to fix the problem might be disappointed. Scoring was a huge problem for us half the season, but we've exactly matched SCBC, who have a plethora of in-form strikers and scorers from midfield.

In their last 10 games they've:
- Lost 0-1 to Cardiff, 4-1 to City, 3-0 to Liverpool, 3-1 to West Ham and 3-2 to Spurs....That's 13 goals shipped.
- They've beaten Palace, Norwich, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Everton (with 2 ogs).
- They drew 0-0 with Villa

This is the immediate context of the Pochettino bandwagon. Phew.

I've seen people say he promotes youth. Meh, that is as much by necessity and the good fortune of Southampton's amazing youth structure as anything. He won't have that at Spurs (and if he does, it'll be with Sherwood's lads). We don't know Poch's youth strategy.

Transfers. Last summer he spent £40m on Osvaldo, Wanyamma and Lovren. Two good ones, one howler, £40m. Anyone can make misjudgements in the transfer market, but let's not pretend this is some kind of Dario Gradi situation. That's proper wedge.


I like him because he's young, he kinda feels Spurs, and Southampton have been good. I have a feeling he's the real deal, but it is only a vague notion. It's a complete punt. I simply do not see the clear margin over Sherwood. A slight margin? Maybe. Perhaps even quite a big margin. But when you net out the risks to the downside, the margin diminishes to the point of not being worth speaking about.

Thanks for summing that up. I don't have a good feeling about Pochettino at all. Southampton come across as a team punching below their weight, in my opinion. They do have a lot of good players, yet, as you point out, haven't exactly had the fantastic season some people think they've had. I hope I'm wrong, if we decide to get him in, but to me it will feel like a massive step in the wrong direction. A typical Spurs-appointment though (ooooh, he's young and had one decent season in the PL, let's get him in and pay ****loads in compensation to Soton for him).

 

[indianspur]

i just hope that Sherwood gets a job elsewhere and quickly.....it wont be healthy situation to have him still hanging around once we get a new guy in

 

[Dicko]

i just hope that Sherwood gets a job elsewhere and quickly.....it wont be healthy situation to have him still hanging around once we get a new guy in

I can just see him being a rent-a-quote about the in's and out's of THFC after he has gone. It'll last until Christmas at least.

 

[Gutter Boy]

i just hope that Sherwood gets a job elsewhere and quickly.....it wont be healthy situation to have him still hanging around once we get a new guy in

He's third favourite (6/1) for the Norwich job behind Malky Mackay and Neil Lennon.

Mark Cooper has been doing a decent job at Swindon (although missed out on the play-offs), but their chairman Lee Power is Timmeh's best mate - so I think that's likely where he'll be come August.

 

[diego_maradona]

Pochettino, Benitez, Yakin, FDB, Bielsa, maybe Tata Martino if he gets sacked...

Still plenty of options

 

[Kingdawson]

Pochettino, Benitez, Yakin, FDB, Bielsa, maybe Tata Martino if he gets sacked...

Still plenty of options

[-o<

 

[Dicko]

Thanks for summing that up. I don't have a good feeling about Pochettino at all. Southampton come across as a team punching below their weight, in my opinion. They do have a lot of good players, yet, as you point out, haven't exactly had the fantastic season some people think they've had. I hope I'm wrong, if we decide to get him in, but to me it will feel like a massive step in the wrong direction. A typical Spurs-appointment though (ooooh, he's young and had one decent season in the PL, let's get him in and pay ****loads in compensation to Soton for him).

I was gonna agree, but if you assume that Man United and Us haven't had successful seasons and you could say Arsenal too (although they may win the FA Cup they still bottled the league) That only leaves Liverpool, Everton, Chelsea and City as having a good season? AND if City don't win the league they might also consider it a bad year. So are were basically only considering these 3/4 as having a decent season? Surely when every other team below 7th has either sacked a manager, considering sacking a manager (Allardyce, Pardew etc) or has been dragged into the relaegation fight then Southampton comfortably reaching safety and finishing top half in their 2nd year when many similar teams often falter badly then they should be applauded and it should be considered excellent progress? (Rodgers only finished 11th with Swansea, and he had spells at Watford and Reading before that)

*And I'm no Pochettino fan tbh.

 

[indianspur]

Pochettino, Benitez, Yakin, FDB, Bielsa, maybe Tata Martino if he gets sacked...

Still plenty of options

:lol: why is he an option?

 

[Gutter Boy]

I can just see him being a rent-a-quote about the in's and out's of THFC after he has gone. It'll last until Christmas at least.

If you dance with the Devil, you'll get burnt....

We all saw in AVB's early months how badly the Redknapp/Sherwood red-top phalanx had their knives out. It's one of the reasons I really wanted LVG, because he would just be able to swat them.

 

[Cochise]

As I said elsewhere, I expect the Wham board to be in touch with Sherwood in the close season as they look to replace BFS.

So far as Pochetinno goes, I think Adkins needs to get some credit for a lot of their attacking play. When he left they were still a creative side, but their defence was so poor. We can cherry pick our way through Southampton's results and pick out the worst results as did Chancer but there are also a lot of impressive results in there too. I personally like to watch the football and judge a team based on their play and despite citing the Emirates Marketing Project loss, anyone who saw the game will tell you that in the first half they play City off the park, this being at the Etihad.

I do have some reservations regarding the guy but at this stage anyone we pick is going to be a risk. Sherwood isn't staying on and he represents a bigger risk than Poch with more question marks surrounding his management style.

If we want a manager with a lot of experience, then we have to go for Benitez. All other candidates are a risk for one reason or another, with perhaps Yakin the only one who is less of a risk due to his Basel side having played at a high level in Europe. FDB has only his Ajax record to go by, Poch has 18 months in English football, Allegri has no knowledge of the English game and Sherwood has just 6 months under his belt. Whoever we get in will divide this board completely.

 

[diego_maradona]

:lol: why is he an option?

Another Bielsa student. Good enough for me lol

 

[chancer]

As I said elsewhere, I expect the Wham board to be in touch with Sherwood in the close season as they look to replace BFS.

So far as Pochetinno goes, I think Adkins needs to get some credit for a lot of their attacking play. When he left they were still a creative side, but their defence was so poor. We can cherry pick our way through Southampton's results and pick out the worst results as did Chancer but there are also a lot of impressive results in there too. I personally like to watch the football and judge a team based on their play and despite citing the Emirates Marketing Project loss, anyone who saw the game will tell you that in the first half they play City off the park, this being at the Etihad.

I do have some reservations regarding the guy but at this stage anyone we pick is going to be a risk. Sherwood isn't staying on and he represents a bigger risk than Poch with more question marks surrounding his management style.

If we want a manager with a lot of experience, then we have to go for Benitez. All other candidates are a risk for one reason or another, with perhaps Yakin the only one who is less of a risk due to his Basel side having played at a high level in Europe. FDB has only his Ajax record to go by, Poch has 18 months in English football, Allegri has no knowledge of the English game and Sherwood has just 6 months under his belt. Whoever we get in will divide this board completely.

Just to be 100% clear Coch, I went to the BBC website and picked out their last 10 games using the tool on the Tables page, up to an including their win against Everton on Saturday. I did not go into all their results and arbitrarily cherry pick the ones that suited my argument.

 

[glorygloryeze]

If you dance with the Devil, you'll get burnt....

We all saw in AVB's early months how badly the Redknapp/Sherwood red-top phalanx had their knives out. It's one of the reasons I really wanted LVG, because he would just be able to swat them.

This absolutely

 

[braineclipse]

Just to be 100% clear Coch, I went to the BBC website and picked out their last 10 games using the tool on the Tables page, up to an including their win against Everton on Saturday. I did not go into all their results and arbitrarily cherry pick the ones that suited my argument.

But what is it about that sample size of 10 games that makes it so relevant?

If we were having this discussion at a stage when their last 10 games had been more impressive to you would you still have brought up the last 10 games as a point in your argument? Or would you have looked elsewhere?

By the way I had a look at some predictions before the season started, I couldn't find a single expert or journalist tipping Southampton higher than 8th.

 

[Daisuk]

I was gonna agree, but if you assume that Man United and Us haven't had successful seasons and you could say Arsenal too (although they may win the FA Cup they still bottled the league) That only leaves Liverpool, Everton, Chelsea and City as having a good season? AND if City don't win the league they might also consider it a bad year. So are were basically only considering these 3/4 as having a decent season? Surely when every other team below 7th has either sacked a manager, considering sacking a manager (Allardyce, Pardew etc) or has been dragged into the relaegation fight then Southampton comfortably reaching safety and finishing top half in their 2nd year when many similar teams often falter badly then they should be applauded and it should be considered excellent progress? (Rodgers only finished 11th with Swansea, and he had spells at Watford and Reading before that)

*And I'm no Pochettino fan tbh.

Yeah, maybe you're right. I don't think they've had a poor season at all, they just haven't been that good either.

 

[braineclipse]

I was gonna agree, but if you assume that Man United and Us haven't had successful seasons and you could say Arsenal too (although they may win the FA Cup they still bottled the league) That only leaves Liverpool, Everton, Chelsea and City as having a good season? AND if City don't win the league they might also consider it a bad year. So are were basically only considering these 3/4 as having a decent season? Surely when every other team below 7th has either sacked a manager, considering sacking a manager (Allardyce, Pardew etc) or has been dragged into the relaegation fight then Southampton comfortably reaching safety and finishing top half in their 2nd year when many similar teams often falter badly then they should be applauded and it should be considered excellent progress? (Rodgers only finished 11th with Swansea, and he had spells at Watford and Reading before that)

*And I'm no Pochettino fan tbh.

I agree with your overall point, but you have to include Palace at least as having a good year.

If not for Rodgers pushing Liverpool into a title fight and possibly even winning the title I think a very good argument could be made for making Pulis manager of the season. Even when considering Rodgers I think what Pulis has done might be more impressive, but title fights rightly get a lot of attention and plaudits.

 

[chancer]

But what is it about that sample size of 10 games that makes it so relevant?

Oh come on man, if you read my post you'll see it was just a throwaway sub-point of my main point, which was about goals scored and conceded this season:

- Southampton have scored the same number of goals as us this season, in a season when we've had dire problems up front.
- Southampton have conceded the same number of goals as us this season, in a season when we've had dire problems at the back.

That is the point worth debating, not a throwaway comment about the last 10 games.