New New Manager Poll (The Lets Get It Right This Time Edition)

[metalgear]

Whether it’s true or not, he’s an employee of the club and his final press conference was a disgrace. But he was picking away at the club throughout his time. He never wanted to be there.

So why did he take the job?
More like coming in and finding out it wasn't as promised at the interview. Has happened before, I'll believe that.

Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk

 

[tommysvr]

So why did he take the job?
More like coming in and finding out it wasn't as promised at the interview. Has happened before, I'll believe that.

Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk

Maybe. We spent a decent amount and brought in some of his players. I’m sure he wanted more. His Spurs meltdown wasn’t his first either.

Anyway, that’s getting away from my point about wishing the club could get more control over the narrative of hapless Spurs.

 

[Surfless]

I started another thread on the role of the press so I'm not going to hijack another one for long, but when I read that we are "leaking stuff to control the narrative" that just sounds like a convenient way for the press to add some false legitimacy to made up stories.

How many people do you think are actually privvy to how the new manager search is going? Levy, Cullen and probably two/three others. That's it. So when a tabloid or website quotes "insiders" who are they really going to be talking to, to get these "quotes"? The answer is either nobody or somebody disconnected from the process.

I've known Donna Cullen since she asked me to interview Martin Jol in the post Santini melee for Glory Glory. In 20 years since she's never once asked me to disseminate information on GG to improve the fan perception. Need an agenda spread fast? Go to the fan forums... Yet it has never happened, as far as I'm aware.

My employer bought a company last year. Spent £200m doing so. It was a massive deal, the biggest in their history by far. The day the news broke it was revealed that 4 people had brokered the deal, 2 from our side and 2 from the other company. I'd say that's similar to the numbers involved in finding our new manager. That means when someone quotes a source at the club they are likely getting conjecture from a tea lady.

Hijack over.

 

[Kandi1977]

Perhaps. It isn’t great though when a manager would rather stay in the Dutch league than perhaps join THFC.

They just won the league for the first time in donkeys years, and will play in the Champions league. I'd like to stay another year for that instead of joining this mess. We aren't even in the conference league!

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

I started another thread on the role of the press so I'm not going to hijack another one for long, but when I read that we are "leaking stuff to control the narrative" that just sounds like a convenient way for the press to add some false legitimacy to made up stories.

How many people do you think are actually privvy to how the new manager search is going? Levy, Cullen and probably two/three others. That's it. So when a tabloid or website quotes "insiders" who are they really going to be talking to, to get these "quotes"? The answer is either nobody or somebody disconnected from the process.

I've known Donna Cullen since she asked me to interview Martin Jol in the post Santini melee for Glory Glory. In 20 years since she's never once asked me to disseminate information on GG to improve the fan perception. Need an agenda spread fast? Go to the fan forums... Yet it has never happened, as far as I'm aware.

My employer bought a company last year. Spent £200m doing so. It was a massive deal, the biggest in their history by far. The day the news broke it was revealed that 4 people had brokered the deal, 2 from our side and 2 from the other company. I'd say that's similar to the numbers involved in finding our new manager. That means when someone quotes a source at the club they are likely getting conjecture from a tea lady.

Hijack over.

I genuinely don’t mean to be rude buddy but what is the point of a post like this and especially if you have created a whole thread on it elsewhere as you say.

Ultimately it boils down to whether the club briefs certain journos/media outlets from time to time or these alleged occasions of briefing are as you say not true and are just made up.

Some people (who are incredibly naive imo) believe the latter and some believe the former.

Whatever anyone believes on this it certainly isn’t worth doing posts about it let alone a whole thread imo.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

I agree in parts; I'm glad the club doesn't air a lot of his laundry in public though there are definitely times when coming out on the front foot would help.

People often talk about the media having an agenda against Spurs. I don't believe that. I just think we're a very big club with a lack of success, a fanbase that is desperate to be good again and a chairman that's painted as this semi-evil character.

One thing I've been thinking about lately is how battered we get in the press in comparison to other teams. I feel like part of our PR strategy should be to get an ex-player or two out there as a pundit to properly defend the club. The ex-players that I can think of at the moment are:

Lineker (BBC) - more Leicester, the host and Mr Uncontroversial
Jenas (BBC) - I don't think many would consider him 'Spurs'
Danny Murphy (BBC) - Liverpool
Crouch (BT) - played at many clubs, more of a 'banter' kind of pundit
Jamie Redknapp (Sky) - Liverpool and with a pretty heavy axe to grind on behalf of his dad
Jamie O'Hara (Talkspot) - bit of a muppet on a show and station full of muppets. Does stick up for us, but it's a very dull argument

Then you get those that they roll out for matches
Danny Rose (Sky, recently) - didn't have a great experience at the end
Robbie Keane - seems like a good candidate for some PR
Glenn Hoddle - more analytical than emotional whenever I've seen him as a pundit
Ledley King - officially employed by the club and Mr. Nice

You compare that with some of the others out there; Neville, Keane, Carragher, Richards etc. They will all criticise their own club by my word they also defend them and promote them at times too.

I readily acknowledge that this could all be complete and utter gonad*s but I do wish we had someone out there sticking up for us in the press. Trying to control this narrative that's just completely gone out of control.

I hope our next manager can be a bit of a clam in this way. Conte was the opposite, joining the press in criticising and complaining about the club at every point.

Perhaps I am interpreting your post incorrectly but you seem to be implying that by and large all is well at ship thfc and the media are the villains unjustifiably bringing the club down.

Of course the media are clams but the club’s name being dragged through the mud is self inflicted by outcomes (albeit not always the ownerships fault) and decisions made by Levy and co.

People can believe what they want about our managerial search but without even looking at what the media are saying it is clear as day our search has been shambolic by virtue of the fact of who we are left to choose from.

That says it all that the managers out there do not view our club and its strategic direction at all favourably.

It really feels to me that enic’s time has run its course. It would be great for them to go and for the club to have a fresh start.

 

[glasgowspur]

The club is macaronIC when it comes to dictating narratives in media. If you don't get ahead of them, the media will have their way. ALL we needed to do when we appointed Mason is say something to the effect of - "We are committed to making sure the next appointment is right for the club in all manner of ways, and as such, we will be reviewing possibilities over the coming weeks with no decision to be made until after the season ends."

And stick to it. Say nothing else. Even when it is clear that a camp such as Nagelsmann's has leaked some info to the press. Ignore it. When asked, repeat the mantra.

Instead, we always REACT with some rubbish. We did it with Nagelsmann, and we did it again with Slot, in fact we even tried to seed the idea that he has used us to get a fatter contract, as if he had somehow 'seduced' us with promises when he knew all along he wasn't interested. As if he'd need us to get a better contract, having just won the league, got into the CL and become a 'property'.

Our inability to control narratives from the start is as much of an issue as any issue itself.

The one word in there that i feel sums us up is react.
We start with a plan, we work towards executing that plan and something happens, appears to me that it could be something with little or no impact on our plan, and we either pause to examine this change and lose momentum or we decide to change the plan and persue this new direction.
I see no focused plan, no plan that we have stuck to, no absolutely clear direction on the football side.
Dof, no dof.
Coach/manager/coach.
Black box, algorithm, data, tried that, binned it off, transfer committee.
My impression going on what has happened over the last 10 years is that we looking for a magic bullet, that one last piece to make everything right, we don't know what that piece is, what it looks like or even what it will bring us, but we know we want it.

This is my opinion, its based on what i have observed and taken from the actions of the club of the club over the last 10 years or so and not as seems to be the topic of the day the bad people in press telling us tales.

 

[tommysvr]

Perhaps I am interpreting your post incorrectly but you seem to be implying that by and large all is well at ship thfc and the media are the villains unjustifiably bringing the club down.

The club definitely has issues. I think everyone can see that. But that's the point of PR, to get out in front of those issues and paint everything as rosey even when it's not.

 

[Grays_1890]

The one word in there that i feel sums us up is react.
We start with a plan, we work towards executing that plan and something happens, appears to me that it could be something with little or no impact on our plan, and we either pause to examine this change and lose momentum or we decide to change the plan and persue this new direction.
I see no focused plan, no plan that we have stuck to, no absolutely clear direction on the football side.
Dof, no dof.
Coach/manager/coach.
Black box, algorithm, data, tried that, binned it off, transfer committee.
My impression going on what has happened over the last 10 years is that we looking for a magic bullet, that one last piece to make everything right, we don't know what that piece is, what it looks like or even what it will bring us, but we know we want it.

This is my opinion, its based on what i have observed and taken from the actions of the club of the club over the last 10 years or so and not as seems to be the topic of the day the bad people in press telling us tales.

I agree with alot of that however on the flip side I also think if we are trying to implement a new structure which is much needed, but now the issue people have is the time thats taking to put into place. In my opinion we need to move away from that magic bullet approach but thats going to take time. I am hopeful that with this new sporting director and subsequent DOF, with Levy becoming more commercial focused there is less of the issues you rightly lay out in your post. We can live in hope

I don't subscribe to this frequently used idea that there is some magical list we are working down of managers or at the lest one that only contains the names of managers from a forum pole. Even if we believe we believe rumours we missed out on 3 managers, the idea thats in the entire world of football that now only leaves us with the dregs is slightly OTT.

That said I will start to get more nervous if we have not done our work within the next fortnight

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

The one word in there that i feel sums us up is react.
We start with a plan, we work towards executing that plan and something happens, appears to me that it could be something with little or no impact on our plan, and we either pause to examine this change and lose momentum or we decide to change the plan and persue this new direction.
I see no focused plan, no plan that we have stuck to, no absolutely clear direction on the football side.
Dof, no dof.
Coach/manager/coach.
Black box, algorithm, data, tried that, binned it off, transfer committee.
My impression going on what has happened over the last 10 years is that we looking for a magic bullet, that one last piece to make everything right, we don't know what that piece is, what it looks like or even what it will bring us, but we know we want it.

This is my opinion, its based on what i have observed and taken from the actions of the club of the club over the last 10 years or so and not as seems to be the topic of the day the bad people in press telling us tales.

100% mate imo.

If enic wont bugger off at the very least Levy needs to be completely removed from the football side of the operation.

His name across the football world (save for some twerking by Rangnick recently) is absolutely in the mud.

Hopefully once the dof and manager are in place the club make an announcement making it very clear Levy now deals with commercial aspects and has zero input on the football side. Then lets see him at less games etc so he disappears from peoples minds.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

The club definitely has issues. I think everyone can see that. But that's the point of PR, to get out in front of those issues and paint everything as rosey even when it's not.

I don’t want an illusion painted of rosiness, I want the club to stop fudging itself.

 

[tommysvr]

I don’t want an illusion painted of rosiness, I want the club to stop fudging itself.

I mean...that's pretty obvious. We want a functional club. Think about Saudi Sportswashing Machine and the Saudis. Do you think they just roll over for the media?

 

[DubSpur]

The club is macaronIC when it comes to dictating narratives in media. If you don't get ahead of them, the media will have their way. ALL we needed to do when we appointed Mason is say something to the effect of - "We are committed to making sure the next appointment is right for the club in all manner of ways, and as such, we will be reviewing possibilities over the coming weeks with no decision to be made until after the season ends."

And stick to it. Say nothing else. Even when it is clear that a camp such as Nagelsmann's has leaked some info to the press. Ignore it. When asked, repeat the mantra.

Instead, we always REACT with some rubbish. We did it with Nagelsmann, and we did it again with Slot, in fact we even tried to seed the idea that he has used us to get a fatter contract, as if he had somehow 'seduced' us with promises when he knew all along he wasn't interested. As if he'd need us to get a better contract, having just won the league, got into the CL and become a 'property'.

Our inability to control narratives from the start is as much of an issue as any issue itself.

So you think we reacted "with some rubbish" and Cullen leaked to the press that Slot just used us to get a better contract?
Which of these do you think is more likely?
a) Journalist finds out that Slot has a new contract and confirms that there were no discussions with Spurs. He needs a story and uses the same one that has been written a thousand times when this exact scenario has happened repeatedly with both players and managers and writes an article that Spurs were used.

b) Journalist finds out that Slot has a new contract and confirms that there were no discussions with Spurs. They go "damn, I can't think of what to write, I know, I'll phone Cullen or Levy and ask them what I should write"

You really seem to be going out of your way lately to paint a picture that we're constantly leaking stuff to the press to create a narrative when there's no chance we're going to be able to control it like that.
No matter what the club statement is the media is going to write brick to try and generate clicks.

 

[Grays_1890]

The club definitely has issues. I think everyone can see that. But that's the point of PR, to get out in front of those issues and paint everything as rosey even when it's not.

I think its more a case of if you just keep quiet it creates more room for people to spout BS. Definitely room for the club to inform people more of things that subsequently come to fruition which is a failing in their part IMO. The current MO seems to be say nothing and let imaginations run wild.

 

[DubSpur]

I genuinely don’t mean to be rude buddy but what is the point of a post like this and especially if you have created a whole thread on it elsewhere as you say.

Ultimately it boils down to whether the club briefs certain journos/media outlets from time to time or these alleged occasions of briefing are as you say not true and are just made up.

Some people (who are incredibly naive imo) believe the latter and some believe the former.

Whatever anyone believes on this it certainly isn’t worth doing posts about it let alone a whole thread imo.

Simple solution, don't read the post/thread if it doesn't interest you, it obviously interests others

 

[scaramanga]

I agree with you largely, I just think a blanket statement ahead of the churn means that when the churn happens, we don't end up with these cringeworthy feeders like 'we were never interested in Nagelsmann' and 'some at the club feel that Slot used them"...

It would, but that only matters to people who care what the press write.

 

[Gazza]

The club definitely has issues. I think everyone can see that. But that's the point of PR, to get out in front of those issues and paint everything as rosey even when it's not.

They don't themselves any favors either

 

[scaramanga]

Perhaps.
You don't have to look too far to see where (and how) we've pinched pennies/tripped over pounds to pick up pennies...

We certainly have in the past.

But in this case we have a manager saying there was no interest, we have a result that would have been reached with no interest and the club haven't spoken about any interest. The only logical conclusion is no interest.

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

Harry Redknapp heavily backing Ange.

Back then Tim Cahill told me what a fantastic coach he is and that was good enough for me.

I knew he had to be good if Tim was bigging him up that much and I’m not really surprised at what he’s achieved. I’m sure there’s a lot more to come yet.

I was impressed when I met Ange, and he’s been wonderful for Celtic even though some people didn’t know much about him and thought he might struggle there.

No disrespect to Celtic, but when a Premier League club like Tottenham shows interest then you have to take notice.

They have a football stadium as good as anywhere in the world and an amazing training ground now they need to get things right on the pitch.

They clearly need to bring in some new players in different areas and Ange has already shown at Celtic how clever he is with his recruitment, especially bringing in the quality boys from Japan, which is obviously a market he knows very well.

If the club can keep him, Tottenham still have the best centre forward around, for me, in Harry Kane so it’s a great opportunity there for Ange.

The moment Spurs sacked Conte back in March, Ange Postecoglou’s name was the first one that jumped into my mind.

I mentioned it to plenty of other people also because I genuinely feel he’d be a perfect fit for Tottenham.

I thought he’d be a front-runner then for sure but nothing seemed to happen until the club was initially linked with ex-Bayern Munich boss Julian Nagelsmann.

But now I see Ange is very much in the frame and that’s a shame for Celtic fans because he’s done an incredible job there.

This is the Premier League we’re talking about here. You saw that with Steven Gerrard who did a great job at Rangers and then got his chance at Aston Villa.

I think if Spurs make an approach it will be a difficult one for Ange to turn down. He’s been excellent you only have to see the way his teams play.

It’s great on the eye and I feel he’d be a great choice for Tottenham.

I think Spurs need to be less timid and have a go at teams, when I was there we played with two wingers home and away in Aaron Lennon and Gareth Bale and played on the front foot.

That’s the way I like to see teams play and I think that's what the supporters want. Ange would bring that sort of approach.

 

[tommysvr]

I think its more a case of if you just keep quiet it creates more room for people to spout BS. Definitely room for the club to inform people more of things that subsequently come to fruition which is a failing in their part IMO. The current MO seems to be say nothing and let imaginations run wild.

Exactly, perfectly summed up my ramblings.