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Mousa Dembele

afsoc4life said:
^Easy to forget that he won the Eredivisie with LvG at AZ Aikmaar despite the presence of Ajax and PSV in that league. We (and I am guilty at times) are too harsh on our players at times.
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I'm sorry, but winning the Eresdivisie with any team is not enough to avoid the "unfulfilled potential" label considering the talent Dembele obviously has.
 
braineclipse said:
I'm sorry, but winning the Eresdivisie with any team is not enough to avoid the "unfulfilled potential" label considering the talent Dembele obviously has.
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This is in response to

Before this season Dembele had no more than 2-3 seasons at most playing really well at top European league level.
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Considering that he most likely was playing with AZ in the Europa as well - I would challenge that statement.
 
braineclipse said:
Him not playing for a bigger club than Spurs is only part of it. Before this season Dembele had no more than 2-3 seasons at most playing really well at top European league level. His last season at Fulham and his first season with us were very good, other than that he hadn't been doing much.

Plenty of clubs that have been bigger than us since Dembele signed for us that do not only sign metronomic passers.

It's judging him by a high standard, and it's a touch harsh (as I already said). But it's not wrong. Unfulfilled potential was not harsh on him up until this season though, not at all.
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Herein lies Dembele's problem, its very hard to define the type of midfielder he is, consequently he flies under the radar. He is not a classic defensive midfielder like Carrick, Schneiderlin or Bender, he is not a goal scoring midfielder like Lampard, Chadli or Lamela, and he is not a metronomic playmaker. I believe many teams only appreciate what Mousa brings to the team once they have played him. IIRC Alex Ferguson was so impressed after watching his United team dominated by Mousa when they played Fulham, that he considered signing him before we got in there first.

braineclipse said:
Before this season Dembele had no more than 2-3 seasons at most playing really well at top European league level. His last season at Fulham and his first season with us were very good, other than that he hadn't been doing much.
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Not sure what you are saying here. He played really well for 2-3 seasons but did not reached his potential? What is his potential if not performing really well? It's a bit unfair to dismiss his last title winning season at Altmaar where he was regarded as one of the players of season and to lump it in the "he hadn't been doing much" column. He can only perform well in the team he is put in which ever league that happens to be in.
 
He's a bit like yaya toure now, but I'm too lazy to look up their goal-scoring stats since I know that's where Mousa can add to his game. I'm not even too bothered about it, he tires half the opposition team with their futile pressing.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I can't say how happy I am seeing Mousa perform so well. He is a vital member of our team and as important as any other player that we have.
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^This^

And its why with him being 28 and injuring prone we must look to someone to bring on as a Dembele II for next season.
Not Mason, Bentaleb or Carroll.
 
StephenH said:
^This^

And its why with him being 28 and injuring prone we must look to someone to bring on as a Dembele II for next season.
Not Mason, Bentaleb or Carroll.
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The problem is that there is no one like him out there... I've never seen someone so strong on the ball, you pretty much have to punch him to get the ball of him, he just walks through tackles like no ones buisness.

If we're looking for someone similar we'll be left dissapointed.
 
NorwegianSpursFan said:
The problem is that there is no one like him out there... I've never seen someone so strong on the ball, you pretty much have to punch him to get the ball of him, he just walks through tackles like no ones buisness.

If we're looking for someone similar we'll be left disappointed.
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I think Poch still has a soft spots for Wanyama (only 24)! Also Schneiderlin 26.
Both will be expensive though.
Poch will coach them back to their best.
 
That player at Seville ( Krychowiak) seems a little bit similar, always looks pretty good when I see him play but think he's a bit more defensive.
 
NorwegianSpursFan said:
The problem is that there is no one like him out there... I've never seen someone so strong on the ball, you pretty much have to punch him to get the ball of him, he just walks through tackles like no ones buisness.

If we're looking for someone similar we'll be left dissapointed.
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I don't think we *should* be looking for someone similar. In terms of ball retention (understood to just mean the retaining of the ball by the team, not by the individual), the only one I can think of who keeps the ball with as much assuredness and poise is Modric, and he does it in a completely different way (thinking three steps ahead of everyone else and moving it on to better-placed teammates without fail). Unless Luka's open to coming back (and has grown to love the chicken badge once more) and Madrid are macaronic enough to sell him, I don't think there's a player available in Europe who can do what Dembele does in terms of relieving pressure and simultaneously linking defense and attack.

We should, however, be looking to find alternatives to Dembele that can do his job with a modicum of efficacy (not to the same level, of course) but do it in a different way. Tying in to the Dembele-Modric dichotomy in terms of approach (dribbling versus passing), having the ability to switch up our creation of chances and possession play from deep (from a dribbling approach to a pass-and-move strategy, as employed by Modric) would allow us to confound opponents by switching up play at will by taking one off and bringing the other one on (or starting with one or the other). It would also give us some sort of cover for Dembele - not similar in form, but similar in function.

I think Onomah can be a mini-Dembele in terms of dribbling, should we take that route. But I'd rather we tried to do the above, to maximise our tactical options and versatility. F*ck knows where we'd find a hard-pressing, strong, energetic Modric-lite though. Beyond Luka himself, that is.
 
I don't think Mousa is particularly injury prone and at 28 we have at least 4 years of him. That's plenty of time to find some alternatives and I completely agree with Dubai and others in the thinking that some pragmatic alternatives are needed.

One of the impressive things that Poch has done is bring in the possibility of different options in different positions. We don't have any players that are identical and "like for like" swaps, but rather players that do the same role in different ways. This is important and means, for me, that we are less predictable in our approach to break down teams, but always press, press, and press.
 
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