Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[billyiddo]

Surprise surprise you miss the point and double down.

 

[Pirate55]

Surprise surprise you miss the point and double down.

You crack on

Ostrich-like, head in the sand response only to be expected once pulled up on something so obviously flawed in your line of argument.

 

[Pirate55]

There is such thing as a winning mentality but it's not a literal mentality that you gain by winning...

Winning mentality is something players exhibite in themselves on a day to day basis - the focus/dedication to play to your maximum consistently. Our players will already show this on the training field

QED.

 

[billyiddo]

The fact you think that quote is in any way a slight on me or my position just shows how incredibly thick you actually are.

 

[SteveAWOL]

For every one of these, I can point you to serial cup and title winners, where a first win has led quickly to a succession of others.

Personally I rate our current team higher than any of this motley crew... Aside from these anomalies, every other domestic cup competition this century has been won by one of the Sky Five (ManU, Chavski, Dippers, ARSEnal, Emirates Marketing Project) who have all spent vastly more money than us and thus should expect to win several trophies every decade.

 

[Pirate55]

The fact you think that quote is in any way a slight on me or my position just shows how incredibly thick you actually are.

Before you throw around such slights, what exactly is so hard to understand by the statement that a winning mentality actually comes from winning not experience gained from losing?

 

[Pirate55]

Personally I rate our current team higher than any of this motley crew... Aside from these anomalies, every other domestic cup competition this century has been won by one of the Sky Five (ManU, Chavski, Dippers, ARSEnal, Emirates Marketing Project) who have all spent vastly more money than us and thus should expect to win several trophies every decade.

View attachment 4283

View attachment 4287

View attachment 4286

View attachment 4288

View attachment 4289

View attachment 4290

I dont disagree with you that one off anomalies don't necessarily lead to winning mentality that will deliver cups or titles on a regular basis. However, my point here is that the first trophy can lead to a succession of subsequent trophies. Before everything was totally skewed by the Sky Era, look at earlier dynasties of the Shankley"s Pool, Kendall's Everton, Clough's, Forrest and Derby, SAF's Man U, Wenger's early Arsenal, even Bill Nick's Spurs to see where one cup often leads to others in quick succession.

 

[billyiddo]

Before you throw around such slights, what exactly is so hard to understand by the statement that a winning mentality actually comes from winning not experience gained from losing?

A winning mentality is a personality trait - it's not a literal mentality that comes from winning, it's a focus/drive/determination to succeed, the players will show this on the training field by having the determination to improve themselves and they will show it on the pitch in games throughout the season over a multitude of different circumstances - it's a driving force which leads to success, not something which comes from success.

Did Leicester City players have the winning mentality to win the league before they won it and used it in order to win the league that season or did they only gain the winning mentality once they had won the league and set about retaining it the following season? How does that make sense?

How do you win a trophy if you need the mentality to do so, which can only be gained post win? It's a paradox.

All big game experience aids players development and there are lessons that can be learned from the big games we lose - it shows the players what is required to play at that level, it shows where we must improve and we have to do in the future to win those types of games- in fact isn't it widely considered so that you learn more in times of despair than in times of triumph?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I dont disagree with you that one off anomalies don't necessarily lead to winning mentality that will deliver cups or titles on a regular basis. However, my point here is that the first trophy can lead to a succession of subsequent trophies. Before everything was totally skewed by the Sky Era, look at earlier dynasties of the Shankley"s Pool, Kendall's Everton, Clough's, Forrest and Derby, SAF's Man U, Wenger's early Arsenal, even Bill Nick's Spurs to see where one cup often leads to others in quick succession.

I can't help but think you are confusing correlation with causation. The teams you mention all won lots of trophies because they were the best teams of their time. Of course their dominance all started with a single trophy, but if each of those teams had instead lost that first Cup final they were in then they all probably would still have gone on to dominate.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Personally I rate our current team higher than any of this motley crew... Aside from these anomalies, every other domestic cup competition this century has been won by one of the Sky Five (ManU, Chavski, Dippers, ARSEnal, Emirates Marketing Project) who have all spent vastly more money than us and thus should expect to win several trophies every decade.

View attachment 4283

View attachment 4287

View attachment 4286

View attachment 4288

View attachment 4289

View attachment 4290

Take that f.cking picture of c.untbell down off this site IMMEDIATELY!

 

[Pirate55]

A winning mentality is a personality trait - it's not a literal mentality that comes from winning, it's a focus/drive/determination to succeed, the players will show this on the training field by having the determination to improve themselves and they will show it on the pitch in games throughout the season over a multitude of different circumstances - it's a driving force which leads to success, not something which comes from success.

Did Leicester City players have the winning mentality to win the league before they won it and used it in order to win the league that season or did they only gain the winning mentality once they had won the league and set about retaining it the following season? How does that make sense?

How do you win a trophy if you need the mentality to do so, which can only be gained post win? It's a paradox.

All big game experience aids players development and there are lessons that can be learned from the big games we lose - it shows the players what is required to play at that level, it shows where we must improve and we have to do in the future to win those types of games- in fact isn't it widely considered so that you learn more in times of despair than in times of triumph?

As I said, which you ignored, it is not ALL about winning trophies. Any team can get a fluky one off win of a domestic cup trophy without kicking on - after all it only takes what 6 games to win one of them (and there can be really helpful draws at least in the early rounds). As @SteveAWOL has shown various teams can have a small winning run to win a cup title and then disappear without trace.

However, that is still two stages away from where we are now. At this particular time, it is all about winning "clutch games". That is our next stage of development. Leicester won lots of these "clutch games" in their PL winning season, including the absolute 6 pointer at our place. They did indeed show a "winning mentality". We have not so far demonstrated this "winning mentality" when it matters - in clutch games. Our next test is against Chelsea away (although this is more of a must not lose game). Thereafter, it will be Man U in the Semi. Win both of those and we will have started to show we are on the way to obtaining that 'winning mentality".

It is not, repeat not gained on the training ground or by losing key games in European competition. End of discussion as I am now bored with this nonsense spouted by you.

 

[parklane1]

There is such thing as a winning mentality but it's not a literal mentality that you gain by winning a trophy that magically allows you to go on and win more, surely no one is that stupid? - if you need it in order to win things and the only way to aquire it is to win something then it doesn't take a genius to work out that something doesnt quite stack up there - how does anyone ever win anything for the first time in that case and how comes teams that do aquire a winning mentality by winning a trophy not always go on to dominate?

Winning mentality is something players exhibite in themselves on a day to day basis - the focus/dedication to play to your maximum consistently. Our players will already show this on the training field and have shown it on the pitch regularly these past couple of seasons - the experience from the big games we have played these past few years which will aid them and show the level required at the top - they'd gain more experience from our CL ties in that respect, example being last season crashing out of the group stages to relatively easy set of opponents and then coming back stronger this time around to top a much more difficult group. Id expect the two games v Juventus to give them further experience too - dominating one of the biggest names in football in their own backyard and the belief that will come from that and the lesson learned from the secomd leg where we threw the tie away in a short space of time - always raising the bar and showing the players what it takes to improve.

So are you now saying that a winning mentality is not a fallacy? because to be honest i am sure you have said it was in a earlier post in this thread. As i said before most ( if not all) of those i have met over the years who BELIEVE that a " winning mentality" is a fallacy are those who have never won anything in a team game.

 

[billyiddo]

As I said, which you ignored, it is not ALL about winning trophies. Any team can get a fluky one off win of a domestic cup trophy without kicking on - after all it only takes what 6 games to win one of them (and there can be really helpful draws at least in the early rounds). As @SteveAWOL has shown various teams can have a small winning run to win a cup title and then disappear without trace.

However, that is still two stages away from where we are now. At this particular time, it is all about winning "clutch games". That is our next stage of development. Leicester won lots of these "clutch games" in their PL winning season, including the absolute 6 pointer at our place. They did indeed show a "winning mentality". We have not so far demonstrated this "winning mentality" when it matters - in clutch games. Our next test is against Chelsea away (although this is more of a must not lose game). Thereafter, it will be Man U in the Semi. Win both of those and we will have started to show we are on the way to obtaining that 'winning mentality".

It is not, repeat not gained on the training ground or by losing key games in European competition. End of discussion as I am now bored with this nonsense spouted by you.

I didn't say it was gained on the training ground you simpleton i said it was exhibited on the training ground.

 

[parklane1]

Totally agree. What you describe is indeed a true "winning mentality". Not what some liberal, sandal wearing, left leaning, well meaning, soft hearted sorts define as "people doing well but the result doesn't matter" think of as a winning mentality. Same in life and in education, which has been ruined by the ethos that "everyone has to be a winner" mentality.

You make good points, especially the bit in bold. Schools have gone to brick since the everyone is a winner flimflam.

 

[Pirate55]

I can't help but think you are confusing correlation with causation. The teams you mention all won lots of trophies because they were the best teams of their time. Of course their dominance all started with a single trophy, but if each of those teams had instead lost that first Cup final they were in then they all probably would still have gone on to dominate.

I think that is a statement that can't be proven one way or the other. GHod forbid we don't go on to win anything, would you still say that we were one of the best teams who never won anything but still "went on to dominate" ?

I think it was Atkinson who needed to beat Brighton in the FA Cup Final to keep his job. This led to Man Us resurgence at the top of English football. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they lost that game when "Smith must score" so nearly made it happen. Would Atkinson have been sacked and United continue in the doldrums?

 

[Pirate55]

I didn't say it was gained on the training ground you simpleton i said it was exhibited on the training ground.

Exhibiting it in 5 a-sides on the training ground. Yeah, great. Did you not read that I said "or by losing in Europe" . Numpty.

 

[billyiddo]

So are you now saying that a winning mentality is not a fallacy? because to be honest i am sure you have said it was in a earlier post in this thread. As i said before most ( if not all) of those i have met over the years who BELIEVE that a " winning mentality" is a fallacy are those who have never won anything in a team game.

Its a fallacy in the context that you apply it - that it literally means a mentality that comes from winning. I've already explained my position quite clearly in several posts today and can only repeat what ive already said -

it's the driving force which leads to success, not something which comes from success.

 

[billyiddo]

Exhibiting it in 5 a-sides on the training ground. Yeah, great. Did you not read that I said "or by losing in Europe" . Numpty.

If you could stick to your word and leave this discussion alone that would be great - but if you're happy to carry on making yourself look stupid then i won't object, saves me the bother of doing it - just don't expect me to participate.

 

[Pirate55]

So are you now saying that a winning mentality is not a fallacy? because to be honest i am sure you have said it was in a earlier post in this thread. As i said before most ( if not all) of those i have met over the years who BELIEVE that a " winning mentality" is a fallacy are those who have never won anything in a team game.

Exactly. I am really beginning to think that there are some on here that really don't know what a "winning mentality" really is!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Just like scoring from corners, eh?