Seedy Ron
Jimmy Neighbour
Is that a promise?
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
Is that a promise?
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
No unless we win the quadruple with a 0 net spend and pay all our players 500k a week they are all going to leave along with Pochettino.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
This Poch bloke gets on my nerves, why can't we have a proper manager like we use to: Neill, Francis, Ossie, Hoddle, Gross, Santini, Ramos, A.V.B.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
To see Hoddle in that list breaks my heart.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
Great players rarely make great managers.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
By your own admission mate, we are not. Poch says he wants to end the wait for a major trophy. That said he would love to win the FA cup I am sure but is aware when we face make or break games the players can lose focus which costs us. So not only is he trying to play it down he is already trying to deal with this external narrative about lack of trophies.
We know from Arsenal that winning the FA cup three times in recent seasons does not make any difference to the pressure on Wenger.
BTW I would personally love us to win the FA cup, but I know that is because I am a fan rather than expecting it to propel us to being Champions or Champions League winners.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Still love the bloke though and I'm sure he wanted it to work out as much as we did.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
The bolded bit is fair enough mate.
I think the Arsenal thing is a mixture of different factors. Firstly, a difference in expectations between the clubs. Secondly, one has been getting worse, while the other has been getting better. And secondly, the impact of the new stadium, with Arsenal fans being told that it would allow them to compete with the truly elite clubs (which in fairness, it probably should have), when in fact it the opposite has happened. Because, let's be honest, if in the past 4 years, Poch had won 3 FA cups and finished 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 5th, we'd probably be talking about one of the most successful periods in our recent history.
And oh yeah, I'm not at all saying that winning an FA cup will make us automatically propel us to CL glory. I just do think that it will help with our winning mentality in the tightest games. The knowledge, even if its in the back of their heads, that they can do it. And also cos I want to see this team win some trophies. They deserve it.
Think there's more experience gained from our CL games than what would come from winning the cup, personally.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
For me he was simply trying to pre-empt the storm of fan and media protests that might rain down on him should we fail to go through.
Except the team he put out and the way they played today suggests we should take those pre-match comments with a generous pinch of salt.
Maybe he really does want to win that relatively less prestigious trophy after all.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
Professionals are winners I am sure they would not turn their noses up at the opportunity to win any trophy. However, as a Professional, it is likely he has been set targets by his employers which include being competitive in both the PL and Champions League those will be his priority with winning the League cup and FA cup lesser targets.For me he was simply trying to pre-empt the storm of fan and media protests that might rain down on him should we fail to go through.
Except the team he put out and the way they played today suggests we should take those pre-match comments with a generous pinch of salt.
Maybe he really does want to win that relatively less prestigious trophy after all.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I think you make a very good point that for a club like us, with the ability to actually build on a cup win as it relates to our wider journey, could use a cup win as a way to give the players a taste of what it is like to win. Kompany said something similar when City won the FA Cup under Mancini.
But I think we just have to consider why Poch is saying what he says. I 100% believe he wants to win the cup, and I totally believe he would come down hard on any player that wasn’t putting the effort in on any first team game. So what he is saying is not that he cares less and that the players can care less. He is just trying to counter a narrative that we ‘need’ to win a trophy, otherwise we haven’t made progress and then all of our players will leave. Because that narrative is nonsense and it deserves to be argued against.
I actually agree with you that a cup win can help give a valuable taste. And I think Poch probably agrees too. But I don’t know how helpful it is to say something like ‘I agree, we are desperate for a trophy’ because everyone outside of the club is saying it too. It just puts pointless pressure on the players when they already know how much they want to win themselves. That performance today did not suggest anyone doesn’t care about winning does it?
Poch is essentially saying focus on the process, and the work, and the results will take care of themselves. We’ve been to one final and 2 semis in domestic cups since he’s been here, so his teams do progress. But it is right to make the point that we are making such startling progress as a club, and winning a tournament that often relies on a luck of the draw doesn’t change any of that.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
With the semi final and final often contested between top 6 sides, winning those games helps build a winning mentality in the big games in the same way as the Champions League games. That is actually more important than winning the trophy per se.
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Mate, don't try to use logic ..
I find it interesting how people try to interpret and pick nuance out of someone speaking in their 2nd/3rd language to make a point that seems contrary to logic and evidence, because it suits some narrative.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
What exactly do you think people are interpreting and picking nuance out of and what narrative is being chased?
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I think this is essentially the final resistance in the media to our success.
They have been against us all the way. The "top 4" is an established cartel and interlopers are not welcome.
Problem is, we are establised(ing?) there, rather successfully, against the odds.
They are running out of excuses to not treat us with equal respect.
Now, IMO, the "HAS to win something" line is pretty much the death throws of that resistance.
Put it this way, what happens when we do win something? They will have nothing left to hold against us and will have to take us seriously...
They will find some new narrative .. they always do ... and we will prove that one wrong again
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Its getting weaker and weaker though, isnt it?
Poch speaks in a language that is likely his 3rd (at best 2nd), sometime he uses it to be intentionally vague or to miss-answer things.
What I see from a narrative is a lot of people (and media) trying to interpret his statements to say we don't care about cups including the FA Cup, almost in a "we don't want to win it, but hey if we fluke our way there it's ok" message. In my opinion that's flimflam. Squad selection for the cups this season has been much stronger than ever before, look at the squads for the FA cup, almost no youth players (KWP and?) and the bench has almost always had the likes of Kane, Dele, Eriksen, etc. on it.
People think football is some kind of romantic punt, it isn't, modern football, and the only reason Spurs is relevant when many of our peers (Villa, Leeds, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, etc.) have faded is because we run the club as a business, with logic. I have no idea what Poch is measured on, but having worked for companies bigger than Spurs (in other fields), if I was setting up this years goals at start of season, here's what it would look like
Situation - We would be playing in "borrowed home" with significant increase in capacity, 2nd consecutive season in CL (last season being particularly poor), SF last time out in FA Cup, and new Stadium coming online next season.
Based on that
- #1 Priority would be returning to CL (club will really want to monetize new stadium with new corporate clients and CL will be a big draw)
- Improved CL results (get out of group stage, win more games, potentially get a marque result)
- Continue to play attractive football (to get seats filled in Wembley)
- Match or better last season's Cup run
there would be other items around player improvement, points, etc, some would be main indicators, others would be bonuses (a cup win would be a bonus).
The point being people don't seem to understand that there is a difference between the club having a successful season without winning a cup and the club not caring about a cup. Do we want to win every competition we enter = yes, I'm sure we do. Can we make every competition a top priority = no, if everything is a priority, nothing is a priority. Can we have a successful season without winning a cup = absolutely yes, and we are on track for that with a potential bonus if we do take home the FA Cup.
It always was weak, Spurs trajectory and results for investment level has outperformed every club in the PL consistently over the last 10+ years, even more so under Poch.
Can we make Europe, can we establish ourselves as best of the rest, can we qualify for CL, can we get out group stages in CL, can we get to cup SF/Finals, can we beat big team, can we win away, can we challenge for PL, can we win without Kane, can we win trophies ...
Spurs under Levy is a successful club, end of ... where will it finally lead us, i.e. will we be one of the most successful clubs in the league/Europe? = that is to be seen, but right now, it's success.