Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Spur of the moment]

I think this is essentially the final resistance in the media to our success.

They have been against us all the way. The "top 4" is an established cartel and interlopers are not welcome.

Problem is, we are establised(ing?) there, rather successfully, against the odds.

They are running out of excuses to not treat us with equal respect.

Now, IMO, the "HAS to win something" line is pretty much the death throws of that resistance.

Put it this way, what happens when we do win something? They will have nothing left to hold against us and will have to take us seriously...

We will still have
'The big stars will leave because we don't pay them £350,000 a week'
'They need to be playing for a BIG club in order to become recognised as great players'
'Haven't won the League for over 60 years'

 

[Pirate55]

Think there's more experience gained from our CL games than what would come from winning the cup, personally.

Think you may be underestimating the benefits that come from winning something. The feeling of being winners can be transformational. How many times has one heard that the first trophy is the hardest to win. And often when that ceiling is breached, others follow in quick succession. The longer we go without a trophy the harder it will get - to say nothing of the key players we will lose unless we actually do win something soon.

 

[billyiddo]

Think you may be underestimating the benefits that come from winning something. The feeling of being winners can be transformational. How many times has one heard that the first trophy is the hardest to win. And often when that ceiling is breached, others follow in quick succession. The longer we go without a trophy the harder it will get - to say nothing of the key players we will lose unless we actually do win something soon.

In order to win titles/cups consistently you need to win the first one at some point, doesnt mean that the first one led to the others - just means that 1 comes before 2.

 

[Pirate55]

In order to win titles/cups consistently you need to win the first one at some point, doesnt mean that the first one led to the others - just means that 1 comes before 2.

"At some point" just ain't good enough to keep this team and manager together. Has to be soon imo. I.e. this season or next. It's Moaner Mou up next for Poch in the FA Cup semi final. A real test for him now at the business end of the season.

 

[billyiddo]

"At some point" just ain't good enough to keep this team and manager together. Has to be soon imo. I.e. this season or next. It's Moaner Mou up next for Poch in the FA Cup semi final. A real test for him now at the business end of the season.

That's a totally different point to your initial one and i certainly agree as a club we should be winning trophies and should be looking to win the FA Cup

 

[parklane1]

Think you may be underestimating the benefits that come from winning something. The feeling of being winners can be transformational. How many times has one heard that the first trophy is the hardest to win. And often when that ceiling is breached, others follow in quick succession. The longer we go without a trophy the harder it will get - to say nothing of the key players we will lose unless we actually do win something soon.

And that is exately what happens once you win something, i can only imagine that there are some fans who have never been a winner at any sporting game ( and i do not mean a game of cards), winning a trophy proves to a lot of players that they ARE good enough to win something and for those who do not believe in a " winning mentality" then all i can say is that is gonads ( imo).

 

[Raziel]

And that is exately what happens once you win something, i can only imagine that there are some fans who have never been a winner at any sporting game ( and i do not mean a game of cards), winning a trophy proves to a lot of players that they ARE good enough to win something and for those who do not believe in a " winning mentality" then all i can say is that is gonads ( imo).

That's fair, its that extra little self belief/confidence that comes from having done it before.

That said, several of our players have won titles/cups at other clubs/leagues, so it's not a scenario of no one has ever been there before.

 

[SteveAWOL]

In order to win titles/cups consistently you need to win the first one at some point, doesnt mean that the first one led to the others - just means that 1 comes before 2.

Correlation doesn’t imply causation...

https://twitter.com/x/status/865431957722636288

 

[thfcsteff]

Correlation doesn’t imply causation...

https://twitter.com/x/status/865431957722636288

I think we might be going about this in the right order for the first time in decades and beyond. Build the impregnable, brilliant team/squad, ramp up over a few seasons, win that first trophy and then run the fudging table in the next few...our last two trophies didn't exactly open the gates. And remember, the CCF win over Chelski wasn't even enough to convince Keane and Berbatov to stick around long term...

 

[billyiddo]

And that is exately what happens once you win something, i can only imagine that there are some fans who have never been a winner at any sporting game ( and i do not mean a game of cards), winning a trophy proves to a lot of players that they ARE good enough to win something and for those who do not believe in a " winning mentality" then all i can say is that is gonads ( imo).

There is such thing as a winning mentality but it's not a literal mentality that you gain by winning a trophy that magically allows you to go on and win more, surely no one is that stupid? - if you need it in order to win things and the only way to aquire it is to win something then it doesn't take a genius to work out that something doesnt quite stack up there - how does anyone ever win anything for the first time in that case and how comes teams that do aquire a winning mentality by winning a trophy not always go on to dominate?

Winning mentality is something players exhibite in themselves on a day to day basis - the focus/dedication to play to your maximum consistently. Our players will already show this on the training field and have shown it on the pitch regularly these past couple of seasons - the experience from the big games we have played these past few years which will aid them and show the level required at the top - they'd gain more experience from our CL ties in that respect, example being last season crashing out of the group stages to relatively easy set of opponents and then coming back stronger this time around to top a much more difficult group. Id expect the two games v Juventus to give them further experience too - dominating one of the biggest names in football in their own backyard and the belief that will come from that and the lesson learned from the secomd leg where we threw the tie away in a short space of time - always raising the bar and showing the players what it takes to improve.

 

[Pirate55]

That's a totally different point to your initial one and i certainly agree as a club we should be winning trophies and should be looking to win the FA Cup

And that is a totally different point from your first one that there is more "experience" to be gained in CL games than winning a cup. That was the point I was responding to.

 

[Pirate55]

There is such thing as a winning mentality but it's not a literal mentality that you gain by winning a trophy that magically allows you to go on and win more, surely no one is that stupid? - if you need it in order to win things and the only way to aquire it is to win something then it doesn't take a genius to work out that something doesnt quite stack up there - how does anyone ever win anything for the first time in that case and how comes teams that do aquire a winning mentality by winning a trophy not always go on to dominate?

Winning mentality is something players exhibite in themselves on a day to day basis - the focus/dedication to play to your maximum consistently. Our players will already show this on the training field and have shown it on the pitch regularly these past couple of seasons - the experience from the big games we have played these past few years which will aid them and show the level required at the top - they'd gain more experience from our CL ties in that respect, example being last season crashing out of the group stages to relatively easy set of opponents and then coming back stronger this time around to top a much more difficult group. Id expect the two games v Juventus to give them further experience too - dominating one of the biggest names in football in their own backyard and the belief that will come from that and the lesson learned from the secomd leg where we threw the tie away in a short space of time - always raising the bar and showing the players what it takes to improve.

Our next step forward is to win "clutch" games. The first being Chelsea away on 1st April. In my opinion, this is at the very least a "must not lose" game and will begin to show whether the team has indeed learned anything from past experiences - most notably the Battle of the Bridge. We really can't go on for much longer being serial "chokers" on big games - Finals, Semi-Finals, Chelski away, Leicester at home in their PL winning year, Juve recently - games where there really is something significant hanging on the outcome of a single game. This will start to show whether we have indeed gained anything in our aim to achieve a "winning mentality". After all, you can't have a winning mentality unless you actually win important games.

Winning cups in the near future will then be key to ensuring our on-going upward progress and be vital to helping us keep this team (and manager) together.

 

[Pirate55]

Correlation doesn’t imply causation...

https://twitter.com/x/status/865431957722636288

For every one of these, I can point you to serial cup and title winners, where a first win has led quickly to a succession of others.

 

[Finney Is Back]

For every one of these, I can point you to serial cup and title winners, where a first win has led quickly to a succession of others.

Was it the first trophy that was important or the second one?

 

[Pirate55]

And that is exately what happens once you win something, i can only imagine that there are some fans who have never been a winner at any sporting game ( and i do not mean a game of cards), winning a trophy proves to a lot of players that they ARE good enough to win something and for those who do not believe in a " winning mentality" then all i can say is that is gonads ( imo).

Totally agree. What you describe is indeed a true "winning mentality". Not what some liberal, sandal wearing, left leaning, well meaning, soft hearted sorts define as "people doing well but the result doesn't matter" think of as a winning mentality. Same in life and in education, which has been ruined by the ethos that "everyone has to be a winner" mentality.

 

[Pirate55]

Was it the first trophy that was important or the second one?

Every journey of a thousand miles is begun with a first step.

You can't win a second trophy without having won a first one.

 

[billyiddo]

And that is a totally different point from your first one that there is more "experience" to be gained in CL games than winning a cup. That was the point I was responding to.

I responded to your initial post about Winning mentality with a reply about winning mentality and where i disagree wuth you - which you totally ignored and started off on a different tangent in reply about players not sticking around- if you can't see that then there's little point me wasting anymore time on you as your second response had fudge all to do with either of our first posts.

 

[Pirate55]

I responded to your initial post about Winning mentality with a reply about winning mentality and where i disagree wuth you - which you totally ignored and started off on a different tangent in reply about players not sticking around- if you can't see that then there's little point me wasting anymore time on you.

I didn't ignore it at all. My point is that a winning mentality is about winning not "gaining experience" . If you can't (or won't) see that, then I agree with you that this discussion is pointless.

 

[billyiddo]

I didn't ignore it at all. My point is that a winning mentality is about winning not "gaining experience" . If you can't (or won't) see that, then I agree with you that this discussion is pointless.

If you can explain how your second post below relates to what is being spoken about with regards to the winning mentality discussion of the first exchange im all ears.

Think you may be underestimating the benefits that come from winning something. The feeling of being winners can be transformational. How many times has one heard that the first trophy is the hardest to win. And often when that ceiling is breached, others follow in quick succession. The longer we go without a trophy the harder it will get - to say nothing of the key players we will lose unless we actually do win something soon.

In order to win titles/cups consistently you need to win the first one at some point, doesnt mean that the first one led to the others - just means that 1 comes before 2.

"At some point" just ain't good enough to keep this team and manager together. Has to be soon imo. I.e. this season or next. It's Moaner Mou up next for Poch in the FA Cup semi final. A real test for him now at the business end of the season.

You've gone from talking about a supposed link between winning a first trophy leading on to more trophies to talking about how we have to win something asap to keep this group together - totally ignoring the correlation/causation point i made in response and nothing to do with the topic at hand.

No biggie but ive responded to the points you've made in a vein attempt at having a sensible discussion, so it would be nice if you could do me the same courtesy.

 

[Pirate55]

If you can explain how your second post below relates to what is being spoken about with regards to the winning mentality discussion of the first exchange im all ears.







You've gone from talking about a supposed link between winning a first trophy leading on to more trophies to talking about how we have to win something asap to keep this group together - totally ignoring the correlation/causation point i made in response and nothing to do with the topic at hand.

No biggie but ive responded to the points you've made in a vein attempt at having a sensible discussion, so it would be nice if you could do me the same courtesy.

If you can't (or won't) see that there is a link developing on from my first point then I am afraid I can't help you. The point of a discussion is not just repeating the same point over and over again but to develop a train of thought based on a simple premise. In the Monty Python vernacular, an argument isn't just saying "no it isn't".

Your insistence that a winning mentality is apparently nothing to do with actually "winning" but is somehow gained from the experience of losing. Indeed, your patently ridiculous claim that a "winning mentality" is expressed by our players on a daily basis in training, shows me that you truly don't understand the meaning of the phrase a "winning mentality".