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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

SubZero said:
We have to agree to disagree on that one. Sure, those kind of players aren't seen much anymore, but that's more down to being exceptional examples rather than being outdated as a role, in my opinion. And even if the level of "pamperedness" in football today probably is on another level than only 20 years ago, they're still mostly kids earning more money that they can spend, now as well as then. Which brings us down to "winning mentality" again. If you come from a normal background being talented in one thing, earning 100K+/w playing/training what you love for a couple of hours a day, haven't you reached the goal of 99% of any human being? I think this was the beginning of the end of the reigns of ManU and Arsenal, a sudden influx of players having reached their goal just by being there. Winning something was just a bonus. Loosely speaking, of course - again noone likes to lose. It's completely different in individual sports, where winning mentality is everything and losing out meaning not getting paid (sponsorship aside, but then again you have to show at least great potential to get anything bigger than Grandma's Garments).

Anyway, Kane is too much of a good guy for my choice, which is by no means the definitive answer I must add. I am also a fan of a (defensive) midfielder as captain, a keeper as we have certainly doesn't do it for me as his movement is so restricted. If you like lead-by-example, Kane is obviously a good choice. But I'd rather have a player more involved, and with the ability to read and hopefully influence the dynamics of the game more.
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The part in bold is essentially why i don't think the type captain that you are championing would work in the football of today - the players won't respond to the stick when they are already at a level that brings them everything they ever wanted, not in my opinion anyway. I think you need an entirely different approach to motivating top tier players (generally speaking) now because of the huge change in lifestyle of late teen to early 30s men these past 10 years or so - i mean can you imagine what Roy Keane would make of Lingard and Rashford and how they carry on via social media? it'd be carnage, he'd tear them to pieces - it just wouldn't work, times have changed
 
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Pirate55 said:
I agree largely with what you say. And as previously stated, the next step in our progress to demonstrating we actually have a "winning mentality" is to actually win one-off "clutch games" . To date, under Poch, can anyone name a one-off important game which was crucial to win and we won? Apart from the league cup semi final in his first season, I am struggling.
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Dont fall for it guys! Ive seen this all before in the corner thread.

Whatever examples you provide, they wont count because as soon as you say something the goal posts will be moved...
 
SubZero said:
We have to agree to disagree on that one. Sure, those kind of players aren't seen much anymore, but that's more down to being exceptional examples rather than being outdated as a role, in my opinion. And even if the level of "pamperedness" in football today probably is on another level than only 20 years ago, they're still mostly kids earning more money that they can spend, now as well as then. Which brings us down to "winning mentality" again. If you come from a normal background being talented in one thing, earning 100K+/w playing/training what you love for a couple of hours a day, haven't you reached the goal of 99% of any human being? I think this was the beginning of the end of the reigns of ManU and Arsenal, a sudden influx of players having reached their goal just by being there. Winning something was just a bonus. Loosely speaking, of course - again noone likes to lose. It's completely different in individual sports, where winning mentality is everything and losing out meaning not getting paid (sponsorship aside, but then again you have to show at least great potential to get anything bigger than Grandma's Garments).

Anyway, Kane is too much of a good guy for my choice, which is by no means the definitive answer I must add. I am also a fan of a (defensive) midfielder as captain, a keeper as we have certainly doesn't do it for me as his movement is so restricted. If you like lead-by-example, Kane is obviously a good choice. But I'd rather have a player more involved, and with the ability to read and hopefully influence the dynamics of the game more.
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Mark Noble?
 
Pirate55 said:
Exactly. I am really beginning to think that there are some on here that really don't know what a "winning mentality" really is!
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I'm certain that you don't understand how to build one. Absolutely, 100% certain. BTW, nice put down of "liberals"...how is the Daily Mail these days?
 
Finney Is Back said:
So is a "winning mentality" developed or something instinctive that certain people have and others don't?

How is this "winning mentality" developed? Does it increase/decrease with every win/loss or is the relationship the inverse of that?
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Careful. You're venturing beyond his non-liberal Mail-loving pay grade there.
 
Rorschach said:
We have won big matches recently and are getting better at them IMHO. The Chelsea matches coming up will tell me a lot about our progression on this front.
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Not lose at Chelsea (pretty much secures out top 4)
Win at United in SF (gets us to final, breaks that weird run of SF knockouts)

Those two and the way we go about them will go a long way to showing progress at the back end.
 
thfcsteff said:
I’m sorry, what you’ve said here is absurd. You do know what gaining experience means in THIS context, right?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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A typical liberal response -its not about the result its all about taking part to "gain experience".A winning mentality is about winning, not some abstract concept of "gaining experience" by in fact losing. It is you my friend that does not seem to grasp the concept of a winning mentality.
 
An interesting read from Telegraph..........

What should be the ultimate aim for a club like Tottenham Hotspur? For many, the answer is simple: silverware. For Mauricio Pochettino, it is more complex.

The Tottenham manager’s view on the importance of trophies, and his refusal to submit to the general thinking that his side must win a competition soon if they are to have anything to show for this period of excellence, has raised more than a few eyebrows this season.

Speaking after his side strolled to a 3-0 win over Swansea in this FA Cup quarter-final, Pochettino was at pains to make himself clear. He would “love” to win the FA Cup, he said. “I never said that it’s not important to win this competition.”

But more important for Pochettino is the “status” of the club, and his mission to take Tottenham to a greater plane. In his view, an FA Cup or League Cup triumph will not elevate his side to that “higher level”.

“In the cups, you can arrive to the semi-final or final and win, like Swansea [League Cup winners in 2013] or Wigan [FA Cup winners in 2013], who were then relegated. That is not going to help create a winning mentality, to win this type of trophy.

Spurs strolled into the semi-finals by beating Swansea on Saturday
“For me, when you are consistently winning in the Premier League or the best competition in the world like the Champions League, that helps you to create [a winning mentality].”

He added: “People believe you win one trophy to give to the club a different status or put the club in a different level and that is not true. Win a trophy, it’s OK, to celebrate with the fans will be a great moment.

“This type of competition is about enjoying the process and about enjoying when you lift the trophy, but it’s not going to give a different level or status as winning the Premier League or the Champions League to put the club on a higher level.

“I wanted to say Tottenham have no need to win the FA Cup or the League Cup to put ourselves or the club in a different level. That will be fantastic to share with the fans and everything, but it’s not going to put you at the level we want to be.

“To put the club in the last level, now, is to finish the new stadium, to have one of the best facilities and training ground in England or to have the best stadium in England or in Europe, that is the basis to have the possibility to put the club at the last level.”
 
Pirate55 said:
A typical liberal response -its not about the result its all about taking part to "gain experience".A winning mentality is about winning, not some abstract concept of "gaining experience" by in fact losing. It is you my friend that does not seem to grasp the concept of a winning mentality.
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Oh you fool!

"...not about some abstract concept of "gaining experience" by in fact losing..."?

You don't get it! STILL!
It is actually incredible to me.
And to think, you told someone here they had their head buried in the sand like an ostrich. Pot - kettle. Still, at least no-one could confuse your fierce "winning mentality" for being a "liberal"...
 
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billyiddo said:
An interesting read from Telegraph..........

What should be the ultimate aim for a club like Tottenham Hotspur? For many, the answer is simple: silverware. For Mauricio Pochettino, it is more complex.

The Tottenham manager’s view on the importance of trophies, and his refusal to submit to the general thinking that his side must win a competition soon if they are to have anything to show for this period of excellence, has raised more than a few eyebrows this season.

Speaking after his side strolled to a 3-0 win over Swansea in this FA Cup quarter-final, Pochettino was at pains to make himself clear. He would “love” to win the FA Cup, he said. “I never said that it’s not important to win this competition.”

But more important for Pochettino is the “status” of the club, and his mission to take Tottenham to a greater plane. In his view, an FA Cup or League Cup triumph will not elevate his side to that “higher level”.

“In the cups, you can arrive to the semi-final or final and win, like Swansea [League Cup winners in 2013] or Wigan [FA Cup winners in 2013], who were then relegated. That is not going to help create a winning mentality, to win this type of trophy.

Spurs strolled into the semi-finals by beating Swansea on Saturday
“For me, when you are consistently winning in the Premier League or the best competition in the world like the Champions League, that helps you to create [a winning mentality].”

He added: “People believe you win one trophy to give to the club a different status or put the club in a different level and that is not true. Win a trophy, it’s OK, to celebrate with the fans will be a great moment.

“This type of competition is about enjoying the process and about enjoying when you lift the trophy, but it’s not going to give a different level or status as winning the Premier League or the Champions League to put the club on a higher level.

“I wanted to say Tottenham have no need to win the FA Cup or the League Cup to put ourselves or the club in a different level. That will be fantastic to share with the fans and everything, but it’s not going to put you at the level we want to be.

“To put the club in the last level, now, is to finish the new stadium, to have one of the best facilities and training ground in England or to have the best stadium in England or in Europe, that is the basis to have the possibility to put the club at the last level.”
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I don’t see how he can say it much clearer really.
 
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