Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[milo]

The difference in pochs situation and Joses was that if our players don't play for Poch they're not superstars costing £10s of millions each, so just as easy to dump them than a manager you trust.
DL won't be held to ransom by anyone, so if the players downed tools but the manager retained his trust DL will back the manager.

I think that is his next big challenge. Manager's need to refresh squads each year to stop them going stale. So far, few have mourned the players that have been cast aside. This summer we are likely to see some of the current first team squad moved on and that can be more difficult to handle.

 

[milo]

Take a look at the man and how he behaves.
Take a look at his suitors.
Do the human math.
It does not fit.
I think he will be with is another 3 seasons minimum, more like 5 or 6.

A lot can happen in that time. I would focus on getting to the end of next season and seeing where we are then.

 

[thfcsteff]

A lot can happen in that time. I would focus on getting to the end of next season and seeing where we are then.

Indeed, but it is a feeling I have. I would say that the only thing to derail it would be Levy insisting he takes a big money signing or whatever, but given the congruence both share I simply do not see that happening.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think that is his next big challenge. Manager's need to refresh squads each year to stop them going stale. So far, few have mourned the players that have been cast aside. This summer we are likely to see some of the current first team squad moved on and that can be more difficult to handle.

I am not so sure. Look at what he has done the last 18 months and he has already moved on a considerable list of players. Paulinho, Ade, Kaboul, Crapoue, Soldado, Townsend, Sigurdsson, Lennon. That's off the top of my head. He also has CCV, Winks, Pritchard to integrate from the youth team, and still has the calibre of Bentaleb and Mason in the squad plus Njie. Chadli might've been a question mark, but the 'Belgian restoration effect' seems to be in full swing with him. I do expect another forward or two, but beyond that I don't see much refreshing. He is a scientist who knows chemistry. Again, what he has done/moved on in 18 months is staggering and great.
EDIT: forgot to mention Onomah who is a real talent too.

 

[braineclipse]

I think that is his next big challenge. Manager's need to refresh squads each year to stop them going stale. So far, few have mourned the players that have been cast aside. This summer we are likely to see some of the current first team squad moved on and that can be more difficult to handle.

I think the "need to refresh the squad" thing is a bit lame and often used by managers with a very short term approach that often fail to implement long term positive change at the clubs they're at. It's probably true about a lot of managers that they do need to refresh squads each year, points towards a weakness in their methods for me.

Not going to go into all "Pochettino is the Messiah mode", but I'm not sure we'll need to refresh all that much. We'll look for opportunities to strengthen and we might find the right options in the summer (or possibly this January). And you're right that in the next group of players likely to be on their way out or dropped down the packing order by new signings there will be quite a few that will be a lot more popular than Townsend and Fazio.

 

[glasgowspur]

I think that is his next big challenge. Manager's need to refresh squads each year to stop them going stale. So far, few have mourned the players that have been cast aside. This summer we are likely to see some of the current first team squad moved on and that can be more difficult to handle.

But I don't see him wanting top class, ready made players that will rebel at his methods. It will be young hungry plasters, unlike at Chelsea where he would be under pressure to buy big.

 

[milo]

But I don't see him wanting top class, ready made players that will rebel at his methods. It will be young hungry plasters, unlike at Chelsea where he would be under pressure to buy big.

I don't think that he will want ready made players either. I just think that you need fresh blood every now and then to keep any group of people dynamic.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think the "need to refresh the squad" thing is a bit lame and often used by managers with a very short term approach that often fail to implement long term positive change at the clubs they're at. It's probably true about a lot of managers that they do need to refresh squads each year, points towards a weakness in their methods for me.

Not going to go into all "Pochettino is the Messiah mode", but I'm not sure we'll need to refresh all that much. We'll look for opportunities to strengthen and we might find the right options in the summer (or possibly this January). And you're right that in the next group of players likely to be on their way out or dropped down the packing order by new signings there will be quite a few that will be a lot more popular than Townsend and Fazio.

We should get to a stage where we only need to bring in one or two players each summer (and the term "need" is even too strong, with "choose to" being more appropriate). Doing this from a position of strength tends to result in players who leave going for very good fees and not overpaying for any new players coming in.

 

[braineclipse]

Believe me, the U-21s are not that good.....save KWP, CCV and maybe Amos

How many players per age group (say 3 years as a cohort just for the sake of it) would have to make it with us for the description of "great youth" to be apt?

Looking at it from a U21 perspective that would include Bentaleb and Onomah already in or around the first team squad. As well as Winks that has been getting in match day squads and cup games. In the same cohort you mention KWP, CCV and maybe Amos... That's a great number of players from one cohort.

If anything Pochettino's excellent work with our great youth players means that we're ahead of the curve. That has left our current U21 squad a bit young and perhaps low on immediate quality compared to some teams. In different circumstances we'd see Onomah and perhaps even Alli/Bentaleb as well as Winks in that U21 team a lot more often and as a team they would be stronger. Pochettino bringing some of these players in "ahead of the curve" isn't a bad thing though.

From what I've read there are some really exciting talents in the next cohort coming through at the club too.

 

[Finney Is Back]

But I don't see him wanting top class, ready made players that will rebel at his methods. It will be young hungry plasters, unlike at Chelsea where he would be under pressure to buy big.

I think there are players out there who are both ready made and hungry.... Currently those players are out of our wage bracket, but if we had CL football and the increased revenues from a new stadium then those sorts of players would be in reach. An example of such a signing was Sanchez when Arsenal got him from Barcelona.

One thing that I think is important when signing the ready made players however, is that they come from a club that play a similar high intensity game that Pochettino coaches.

 

[milo]

I think the "need to refresh the squad" thing is a bit lame and often used by managers with a very short term approach that often fail to implement long term positive change at the clubs they're at. It's probably true about a lot of managers that they do need to refresh squads each year, points towards a weakness in their methods for me.

Not going to go into all "Pochettino is the Messiah mode", but I'm not sure we'll need to refresh all that much. We'll look for opportunities to strengthen and we might find the right options in the summer (or possibly this January). And you're right that in the next group of players likely to be on their way out or dropped down the packing order by new signings there will be quite a few that will be a lot more popular than Townsend and Fazio.

I'm not talking about wholesale changes but a few in (or promoted from the U21s) and a couple out seems like a natural and managable churn.

Poch was talking about it recently. I'll see if I can track down the quotes.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't think that he will want ready made players either. I just think that you need fresh blood every now and then to keep any group of people dynamic.

I think, personally, the odd signing perhaps but his meritocracy is the factor which keeps things dynamic. I agree he won't stand still, but I think his progression takes a different path to the usual.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm not talking about wholesale changes but a few in (or promoted from the U21s) and a couple out seems like a natural and managable churn.

Poch was talking about it recently. I'll see if I can track down the quotes.

Exactly.
In this regard he is in full control and I don't see any challenge beyond the pleasure of integration.

 

[alekaras]

I can't see Pochettino wanting to leave right now. What's happening at our club - as I've said before - makes it one of the best places to be in football at this point in history.

That said, in theory, Chelsea could make Pochettino a financial offer he couldn't refuse... I love the guy and I don't think that he is a mercenary by nature, but Abramovich has very very deep pockets and there's surely a point at which a person says "If I take this job I'll be rich for the rest of my life and my great grandchildren will be able to say the same"... at which point anyone's head can get turned I suspect.

Actually, I don't think any offer Chelsea or any other team makes could not be matched by Levy. Poch currently makes £2m/year and Mourinho was making £8.5m. I think Levy could easily cover the difference, if push came to shove, and then the deciding factors would be everything else that people mentioned (great academy, chairman support, new stadium, etc. etc.). And that's if Poch was motivated solely by money. As opposed to players, who have just a short 5-10 year window to earn as much as they can to last them a lifetime, Poch is still only 43 and can coach well into his late sixties or early seventies. So motivation to earn as much as he can now, is probably less.

My gut feeling is that Poch wants to build a brand of football, kind of like Barca has done, at one club. And Spurs is the ideal club right now for all the reasons that have been mentioned on this board. I can't see any other of the rich clubs being able to offer that, with the exception of perhaps enticing him with a higher salary. But as I said above, I would see it very difficult for anyone to offer something that Levy couldn't match. It's one thing selling a player, because you will always find new stars. When it comes to coaches, they are so rare that you would be willing to go overboard to keep them and I do believe Levy recognizes this with Poch and will act accordingly should the need arise.

 

[milo]

Exactly.
In this regard he is in full control and I don't see any challenge beyond the pleasure of integration.

Team dynamics are different to guage from a distance. People leaving and new ones being introduced always has an impact. Poch has spoken at length about the importance of recruiting the right players and we have a system in place to help our chances of doing this but we won't get it right every time.

Poch has built his team now and done bloody well. Most managers never build a team this good, fewer still build more than one. I just see the challenge over the coming years is how the team evolves.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Even on the salary point, I'm not that worried with Poch. If someone came in for him and offered him bigger bucks we should compensate him fairly, but looking at Chelsea and thinking 'well, I know it's not really my style of club where my methods will usually work but I'll be rich beyond my wildest dreams' is a bit of a falsehood. He's still young in managerial terms. If Chelsea offered him a 3 year contract at 6m a year and he got sacked after 18 months and has to then take a job with Valencia, he's no where near richer than if he stays with us for the next 8 years with a salary steadily increasing and a reputation growing too.

I get the feeling he is much smarter than that.

 

[Raziel]

Actually, I don't think any offer Chelsea or any other team makes could not be matched by Levy. Poch currently makes £2m/year and Mourinho was making £8.5m. I think Levy could easily cover the difference, if push came to shove, and then the deciding factors would be everything else that people mentioned (great academy, chairman support, new stadium, etc. etc.). And that's if Poch was motivated solely by money. As opposed to players, who have just a short 5-10 year window to earn as much as they can to last them a lifetime, Poch is still only 43 and can coach well into his late sixties or early seventies. So motivation to earn as much as he can now, is probably less.

My gut feeling is that Poch wants to build a brand of football, kind of like Barca has done, at one club. And Spurs is the ideal club right now for all the reasons that have been mentioned on this board. I can't see any other of the rich clubs being able to offer that, with the exception of perhaps enticing him with a higher salary. But as I said above, I would see it very difficult for anyone to offer something that Levy couldn't match. It's one thing selling a player, because you will always find new stars. When it comes to coaches, they are so rare that you would be willing to go overboard to keep them and I do believe Levy recognizes this with Poch and will act accordingly should the need arise.

Levy has often had Spurs coaches in top 3 or 4 pay wise ...

To other points on this page

- Re refreshing the squad, I don't think we need to. The big challenge is really could we get this squad (15 or 16) to stay together for another 2-3 years. Lloris, Walker, Jan, Toby, Dembele in their prime years +Alli, Dier, Eriksen, Lamela, Kane & Son with 1 or 2 more years PL (& role) experience? My firm belief is if this season (with Cheat$ki, Manure, Pool, City all off the boil) had come next year, we would be realistic title contenders ... just a bit short of experience now.

- I do believe Poch & Levy should be looking for that 1 signing that could make a difference (the VDV equiv), and not sure how much that flies in the face of everything Poch is building, yet look at his comments re Bale (he basically said, of course, you accommodate that type of player).

- Obvious area for improvement in the squad is alternative striker to Kane (or to play alongside), and we lack pace out wide, a quality signing in those positions could change us.

 

[braineclipse]

Even on the salary point, I'm not that worried with Poch. If someone came in for him and offered him bigger bucks we should compensate him fairly, but looking at Chelsea and thinking 'well, I know it's not really my style of club where my methods will usually work but I'll be rich beyond my wildest dreams' is a bit of a falsehood. He's still young in managerial terms. If Chelsea offered him a 3 year contract at 6m a year and he got sacked after 18 months and has to then take a job with Valencia, he's no where near richer than if he stays with us for the next 8 years with a salary steadily increasing and a reputation growing too.

I get the feeling he is much smarter than that.

Agreed. The financial value of success and the long term financial gain that's expected from smart decisions making success more likely is often overlooked.

 

[Nigeyman]

Take a look at the man and how he behaves.
Take a look at his suitors.
Do the human math.
It does not fit.
I think he will be with is another 3 seasons minimum, more like 5 or 6.

Abramovich is sad really, he always wants we have. I think we remain a small obsession of his due to early history. I cannot think of a set-up more fundamentally different to that Poch favors than either Chelski or Man Utd.

I like this post very much, all I will say is that a week in football is a very long time. 5-6 years is like a ruddy century, he has made so much progress with us as far as I can see that I just want to see that continue for the foreseeable. A new stadium...running a tight ship for a few years will not be easy....nor will a bad run of results...2 points from 8 games scenario.

Basically I love what he is doing with our squad, I love his professionalism,the way he handles the media, deals with defeats....basically I think he is the perfect package....but we all know football is a crazy crazy world, so we should not look beyond the end of next season I think.

Regardless at present, tie the man down, give him a decent contract, let him know that his work is appreciated and how much he is wanted here to continue the good work.

 

[Pandy]

Re: the only fit being Barca. Even then - he was a player and manager for city rivals Espanyol. I think it would take a lot for him to go there too...