Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[GrimsbyYid]

Your opinions and bias are often disgraceful. Calm down Rose had a good game today so why the hell are you picking this up. You come across a very angry man

Bias? What bias? How are they disgraceful? Because they're different to yours? We've had these before me and you, and again you continue to show absolutely zero intelligence, zero opinion, zero analysis. No actual critique of what I think in anyway. Just nameless name calling... Childish, macaronic name calling.

Actually watch football, watch us, form an opinion, contextualise it. Then come back and offer something other than banalities.

 

[milo]

If you want to abuse each other, please do it over PM @GrimsbyYid @LCLC. Any more on threads and you'll be taking a break from the board.

 

[StephenH]

The 3-2 against West Ham, I remember as being a game that we didn't look like winning at all with Bale then rescuing us in the last minute with a Worldly?

Currently I have Pochettino above AVB and Sherwood and behind Redknapp. IMO our Redknapp team was the best to watch and the AVB team was by some distance the worst to watch. Pochettino's team is not too far away from Redknapp's in terms of watchability.

When Harry met Gareth. Harry had died and gone to football heaven. Give Poch Bale and we all would be in football heaven.

Poch has only really started to put his mark on this team since August. Last season was a bit of a 'make do and mend season' there was so much deadwood around. So 5 months in there are some good shoot coming through.

 

[Finney Is Back]

When Harry met Gareth. Harry had died and gone to football heaven. Give Poch Bale and we all would be in football heaven.

Poch has only really started to put his mark on this team since August. Last season was a bit of a 'make do and mend season' there was so much deadwood around. So 5 months in there are some good shoot coming through.

Harry was partly responsible for turning Bale from a bit of a cry baby into one of the best 3 players in the league.... He wasn't given the ready made superstar that (for instance) AVB was.

I do agree with you however that Pochettino has only really had the last 4 months or so to work with HIS team. I hope that he manages maintain the trajectory that we have seen so far as if he does then within a season or two we will really have something to shout about. However as things stand his team is behind Harry's IMO.

 

[billyiddo]

Bale wasn't a superstar until that final season - saying otherwise is rewriting history to deflect potential credit away from AVB.

Anyway there is an AVB thread somewhere in general football if you guys still need to pick the bones out of his time here or his discuss his achievements since leaving. Otherwise can you stop taking this one off topic

 

[Pirate55]

You don't blame him, I know. @Pirate55, however, does. And I was pointing out to him that judging AVB on that standard was ludicrously unfair given that, if the same was applied to Poch, he'd come out of it looking even worse than AVB. That's when you jumped in shouting about 'utter nonsense' and all that.

'Wasting' Adebayor's 'supreme talent' is not an offense either AVB or Poch can ever be accused of.

Dubai, you have missed several key points. While I think Ade is a grade A Ahole, AVB came to the club with Adebayor having had a good season under Redknapp. Yet it was only days before the transfer window closed that we finally signed him permanently. From Ade's perspective this could have looked like AVB never fancied him and was trying to buy other strikers. When that failed he became a sloppy second and only came in to prevent us starting the season with one striker (Defoe). Then he didn't immediately play him iirc saying there was an issue of fitness - thereby hardly giving him a ringing confidence boost.

Then came the ACN farce. Can anyone seriously think that Ade would have disrespected SAF, Wenger, Mourinho etc in such a way. Add to that the ritual humiliation of making him train with the Under21s and the story of making him stand on a chair to apologise to his team-mates and you have the sure makings of disillusionment on a player whose ego is already fragile. The following season he brought in Nogoaldado and played him in preference to Ade. As soon as he was gone, even Tactics Tim got some decent performances out of him, something AVB never did. His whole handling of Ade is text book bad man management. AVB showed the same poor traits with senior players at Chelsea, which led his sacking there too.

Poch, on the other hand, gave Ade every opportunity to perform. He even made him Vice captain to try and help boost his confidence. He played him in quite a few games at the beginning of his reign. Yet as soon as it became obvious that his head wasn't right, Poch took quick and decisive action to remove him first from the team, then from the squad and finally from the club. He didn't let his bad juju spread and infect others like AVB had done. Totally different man management qualities IMO.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

I realise this is the wrong place for it. But for th east month (and it's happened before) the site is insanely slow, plus I can only post eery 10 minutes. When I'm not logged in the site is really fast. So am I being throttled by the administrators?!

 

[alekaras]

Harry was partly responsible for turning Bale from a bit of a cry baby into one of the best 3 players in the league.... He wasn't given the ready made superstar that (for instance) AVB was.

I do agree with you however that Pochettino has only really had the last 4 months or so to work with HIS team. I hope that he manages maintain the trajectory that we have seen so far as if he does then within a season or two we will really have something to shout about. However as things stand his team is behind Harry's IMO.

This. For all those comparing Poch to AVB and maintaining that Poch hasn't really achieved anything significant, let's not forget there is a process to create a team that takes time.

Year 1: Assess the existing players and get rid of the deadwood - DONE
Year 2 (which we are currently in): Start building a team with a style of play and players that fit that style - IN PROGRESS
Year 3: Team is fully adapted to the style of play and players to each other and that is when you start seeing the results - TBD

So in Year 2 it is normal to have matches like the one against the barcodes. And when considering where we expected to be in Year 2, we're doing pretty darn well, having outplayed all teams we have come up against bar one or two. So if you are going to judge Poch now, judge him based on where you expected we would be and where we actually are. But if I were you, I would wait until the first 10 games of next season before labeling him a success or worse than 'Arry/AVB/Timeh. And let's not forget it took SAF more than 4 years to build the MUFC powerhouse and he had more resources at his disposal than Poch does. So let's put things in perspective a bit, eh?

 

[Robspur12]

Bale wasn't a superstar until that final season - saying otherwise is rewriting history to deflect potential credit away from AVB.

Anyway there is an AVB thread somewhere in general football if you guys still need to pick the bones out of his time here or his discuss his achievements since leaving. Otherwise can you stop taking this one off topic

Not true mate he was a super star after the inter Milan game under Harry. His final season with us confirmed it. I'm sorry not meaning to take this off topic but I cannot bear this mis representation of AVB as the man who made bale. It gives him way too much credit as a coach. I think it is important to make this distinction because he will often be compared as a coach to Poch.

 

[thfcsteff]

Harry was partly responsible for turning Bale from a bit of a cry baby into one of the best 3 players in the league.... He wasn't given the ready made superstar that (for instance) AVB was.

I do agree with you however that Pochettino has only really had the last 4 months or so to work with HIS team. I hope that he manages maintain the trajectory that we have seen so far as if he does then within a season or two we will really have something to shout about. However as things stand his team is behind Harry's IMO.

'Partly' is even being generous. He stumbled into it despite twice trying to fudge him off. I suspect the likes of Jordan and particularly Clive Allen had a lot to do with his development, and we need to thank Levy who personally assured his parents when the player signed that he would not allow him to be, err, fudged off.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't blame AVB for wasting Adebayor's talent. I think that it is pretty clear that Adebayor is a talented but inconsistent footballer who is difficult to manage. I think that AVB handled him badly but his judgement was right. Poch came to the same conclusion but handled the situation far better.

The pressures for each with regards to Ade were different. But Poch established what he wanted to do when he came through the door. And if he didn't get it, he was off. Last season was a masterclass in house cleaning behind closed doors. Seriously, the work he did will never be fully appreciated by many...(BTW I know you likely agree mate, just airing this for general 'use').

 

[Rorschach]

The pressures for each with regards to Ade were different. But Poch established what he wanted to do when he came through the door. And if he didn't get it, he was off. Last season was a masterclass in house cleaning behind closed doors. Seriously, the work he did will never be fully appreciated by many...(BTW I know you likely agree mate, just airing this for general 'use').

I guess we'll never know all that went on, but from the outside it certainly seemed a ruthlessly efficient cull. It is hard to put a good argument for keeping many (or any!) of the players that eventually left the club. There is not much room for sentiment in this business if you want to operate at the sharp end of the table it would seem.

 

[parklane1]

'Partly' is even being generous. He stumbled into it despite twice trying to fudge him off. I suspect the likes of Jordan and particularly Clive Allen had a lot to do with his development, and we need to thank Levy who personally assured his parents when the player signed that he would not allow him to be, err, fudgeed off.

I agree.

 

[billyiddo]

Not true mate he was a super star after the inter Milan game under Harry. His final season with us confirmed it. I'm sorry not meaning to take this off topic but I cannot bear this mis representation of AVB as the man who made bale. It gives him way too much credit as a coach. I think it is important to make this distinction because he will often be compared as a coach to Poch.

The Inter game showed his potential ceiling - no doubt, but he did not reach that level until the season he left. Many players have, and will continue, to show such glimpses sporadically in their development, very few go on to nail down the consistency to become genuine elite players - he may have done that by himself regardless (and that would be a different argument that no side would budge on id imagine) but he certainly wasn't that player when AVB arrived.

 

[Robspur12]

The Inter game showed his potential ceiling - no doubt, but he did not reach that level until the season he left. Many players have, and will continue, to show such glimpses sporadically in their development, very few go on to nail down the consistency to become genuine elite players - he may have done that by himself regardless (and that would be a different argument that no side would budge on id imagine) but he certainly wasn't that player when AVB arrived.

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. I think you are underplaying just how good Bale was under Harry, he was pretty consistent. He did not dominate games as he did under AVB as there were other world class players to share the responsibility for making the team function effectively. Bringing it back on topic, AVB IMO deserves some credit for deciding to play Bale through the middle, although I believe Harry had tried this already. But Tbh I don't think this was an example of coaching genius, it would be obvious to any coach that you should maximise the contribution of your best player. In fact Bale's brilliance covered for inadequacies in AVB's system. Poch is entirely different in the way he is coaching the team, much less reliant on one special player. With his blend of youth and established players I'm not sure there are many managers out there who could build a team as he has done.

 

[metalgear]

Being above two big names, but not in the top 4 = Not good enough?

Strange logic.

they are having a poor season. when those two get in stride, do you think we will be able to beat them?

 

[metalgear]

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. I think you are underplaying just how good Bale was under Harry, he was pretty consistent. He did not dominate games as he did under AVB as there were other world class players to share the responsibility for making the team function effectively. Bringing it back on topic, AVB IMO deserves some credit for deciding to play Bale through the middle, although I believe Harry had tried this already. But Tbh I don't think this was an example of coaching genius, it would be obvious to any coach that you should maximise the contribution of your best player. In fact Bale's brilliance covered for inadequacies in AVB's system. Poch is entirely different in the way he is coaching the team, much less reliant on one special player. With his blend of youth and established players I'm not sure there are many managers out there who could build a team as he has done.

i'd argue that in the combined contributions of loris, dier, alli and kane we have a better side than a one-man-bale squad.

edit: and erikson...

 

[metalgear]

I think metalgear is simply not a fan of Poch. That's all mate. Otherwise I simply don't understand, as it seems pretty clear to me that the man is delivering on all fronts as he gets close to finishing his rebuild of our club from top to bottom.

no i have nothing against poch and fully for him since he got here - until this season.

its an erratic league and we have a great opportunity to be in the top four. but i think we are at risk of throwing it away.
it will be much more difficult when united and liverpool gets their act together, with their much larger revenue base.

but mainly poch has had a few years with the boys, and getting the players he wants. i am expecting this year to see a big improvement. if there is progress versus last year, it isn't apparent to me - yet.

 

[billyiddo]

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. I think you are underplaying just how good Bale was under Harry, he was pretty consistent. He did not dominate games as he did under AVB as there were other world class players to share the responsibility for making the team function effectively. Bringing it back on topic, AVB IMO deserves some credit for deciding to play Bale through the middle, although I believe Harry had tried this already. But Tbh I don't think this was an example of coaching genius, it would be obvious to any coach that you should maximise the contribution of your best player. In fact Bale's brilliance covered for inadequacies in AVB's system. Poch is entirely different in the way he is coaching the team, much less reliant on one special player. With his blend of youth and established players I'm not sure there are many managers out there who could build a team as he has done.

Happy to disagree as I feel you're downplaying the step up Bale took in his last season with us.

 

[Modric THFC]

i'd argue that in the combined contributions of loris, dier, alli and kane we have a better side than a one-man-bale squad.

edit: and erikson...

A lot stronger than what we had under AVB's second season without Bale.

Look at the team he ended up with from his last game when he was sacked exactly two year ago
That team had 1 more point that Poch has now.

25 H. Lloris
2 K. Walker
20 M. Dawson
15 E. Capoue
16 K. Naughton
7 A. Lennon
30 Sandro
19 M. Dembélé
21 N. Chadli
8 Paulinho
9 Soldado