Ingerlund

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

I also think moving the clocks back an hour could have a small impact and help because the few children that are out playing football in the park later in the evenings would be doing so for longer.

As someone who hates dark evenings at 5.00pm I see no reason why we do not put the clocks back later.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

That my brogue wearing friend I like to bathe in custard, I had a football attached to my foot as a child combine that with a hatred of school home work. Children are not outside enough I may sound like an old fart but it is true. In other countries particularly the emerging countries I doubt they are playing playstation and that is why they will win world cups.

I used to play football in a park after school (sometimes in school hours as well ) and then on the way home we used to play in a garage compound now all kids want to do is play computer games.

Looking at the World Cup finalists over the last 20 years: (West) Germany, Italy, France, Brazil, Brazil, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Netherlands. Other than Brazil, and they have a football history like no other country, there's hardly many "emerging countries" in there. I haven't compared stats of playstations sold by population for Germany and Holland compared to the UK, but I'm guessing it's not massively different.

Thus I don't think your point stands. Similarly I think your point would stand much stronger if the failure of England in football was also shown in other sports, but I don't think it is. Look no further than the Olympics as I've said before. Britain were third in the medal table in 2012, probably somewhat influenced by being the hosts, but you were 4th in 2008 and 10th in 2000 and 2004. Not comparable at all to the one semi final appearance outside the '66 at home World Cup results in the last however many years you have in football.

How come your "kids nowadays" playstation playing scoundrels could win you 29 gold medals in the London Olympics? Is it perhaps because an effort was made to improve the coaching and facilities in the buildup to the Olympics? Or look at the influx of good English cyclists in recent years, how come this is possible?

You do sound like an old man. Your opinions sounds exactly like the kind of excuse an FA representative would make (not that I've ever met one), it sounds exactly like the kind of tabloid reaction to a problem left unfixed for decades that is entirely unhelpful, but all to common to English football. What's more it sounds exactly like the kind of arguments old men have been making for centuries, usually wrongly.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Looking at the World Cup finalists over the last 20 years: (West) Germany, Italy, France, Brazil, Brazil, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Netherlands. Other than Brazil, and they have a football history like no other country, there's hardly many "emerging countries" in there. I haven't compared stats of playstations sold by population for Germany and Holland compared to the UK, but I'm guessing it's not massively different.

Thus I don't think your point stands. Similarly I think your point would stand much stronger if the failure of England in football was also shown in other sports, but I don't think it is. Look no further than the Olympics as I've said before. Britain were third in the medal table in 2012, probably somewhat influenced by being the hosts, but you were 4th in 2008 and 10th in 2000 and 2004. Not comparable at all to the one semi final appearance outside the '66 at home World Cup results in the last however many years you have in football.

How come your "kids nowadays" playstation playing scoundrels could win you 29 gold medals in the London Olympics? Is it perhaps because an effort was made to improve the coaching and facilities in the buildup to the Olympics? Or look at the influx of good English cyclists in recent years, how come this is possible?

You do sound like an old man. Your opinions sounds exactly like the kind of excuse an FA representative would make (not that I've ever met one), it sounds exactly like the kind of tabloid reaction to a problem left unfixed for decades that is entirely unhelpful, but all to common to English football. What's more it sounds exactly like the kind of arguments old men have been making for centuries, usually wrongly.

The sort of people who participate in Olympic sports are a very different and better class of person to the type who play football. My son is the prime example he goes to private school and loves tennis. We do not allow him to play computer games, I know for a fact having been on a tour of the new brighton training ground that they have a massive players lounger with the latest games consoles.

As for previous world cups I am not sure what past trends have to do with future trends. People thought banks were to big to fail, but they got themselves into all sorts of trouble.

The future of world football will be from countries where children actually spend time playing football. 20 years ago England would have easily beaten a team like Costa Rica but the gap in class is not noticeable now. I would say it is because there players actually kick a ball about as children.

 

[Raziel]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

The English national team football is in effect a car crash, a culmination of many individual things that lead to a big **** up

- Truth is, video games is not the problem, as rightly pointed out, it does not stop England from being successful in other sports, also other countries have the same "video game" problem.
- The coaching is not good enough, it's evident in the PL, who are the class technical and flair players? (usually not English)
- Selection still is a problem, injured, out of form, no experience but plays for big club **** has to end
- Everyone seems to want to defend Hodgson, but lets be ****ing real, would the guy get the job managing one of the top 4-6 teams in the PL? why won't England appoint a coach who has actually won a WC, or maybe history of at least semi/final appearances?
- The we tried, tight group, plucky losers **** has to stop, you ****ing failed, 2 losses and a draw against really one powerhouse team is not acceptable

But stay the same, wait for the next golden generation to deliver **** all ...

 

[braineclipse]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

The sort of people who participate in Olympic sports are a very different and better class of person to the type who play football. My son is the prime example he goes to private school and loves tennis. We do not allow him to play computer games, I know for a fact having been on a tour of the new brighton training ground that they have a massive players lounger with the latest games consoles.

As for previous world cups I am not sure what past trends have to do with future trends. People thought banks were to big to fail, but they got themselves into all sorts of trouble.

The future of world football will be from countries where children actually spend time playing football. 20 years ago England would have easily beaten a team like Costa Rica but the gap in class is not noticeable now. I would say it is because there players actually kick a ball about as children.

Better class of person :lol:

You mean richer I presume, seeing as you're talking about private schools? Yet the players from the emerging countries are supposed to be coming straight out of the favelas?

Past trends. Results up to this point. Call it what you will, if you do not think we can learn from history the conversation is essentially over.

Regardless, highly developed countries manage to do really well. You're a highly developed country yet you don't despite the highest of ambitions and great interest. Germany have managed to turn their favours around, Belgium have made huge strides, as have Switzerland. At least for Germany and Switzerland, and I think for Belgium, this is not just a coincidence. This is the result of years of hard and smart work from associations (and clubs). It's not that Germans and Belgian parents just all of a sudden started sledge-hammering their children's playstations 10 years ago!

The gap between the top teams and the smaller teams has become smaller, the constant is that England are not a top team and not closing that gap. Organizational skills, management, coaching, players at smaller countries playing in the big European leagues are important factors here, as are other factors I'm sure. This idea that there's just something wrong with English children compared to children elsewhere is most likely not.

 

[Raziel]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Better class of person :lol:

You mean richer I presume, seeing as you're talking about private schools? Yet the players from the emerging countries are supposed to be coming straight out of the favelas?

Past trends. Results up to this point. Call it what you will, if you do not think we can learn from history the conversation is essentially over.

Regardless, highly developed countries manage to do really well. You're a highly developed country yet you don't despite the highest of ambitions and great interest. Germany have managed to turn their favours around, Belgium have made huge strides, as have Switzerland. At least for Germany and Switzerland, and I think for Belgium, this is not just a coincidence. This is the result of years of hard and smart work from associations (and clubs). It's not that Germans and Belgian parents just all of a sudden started sledge-hammering their children's playstations 10 years ago!

The gap between the top teams and the smaller teams has become smaller, the constant is that England are not a top team and not closing that gap. Organizational skills, management, coaching, players at smaller countries playing in the big European leagues are important factors here, as are other factors I'm sure. This idea that there's just something wrong with English children compared to children elsewhere is most likely not.

Laugh at the old class hang-ups still have to rear its head ... get it over it England

The rest is pretty much on point

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Laugh at the old class hang-ups still have to rear its head ... get it over it England

The rest is pretty much on point

Laugh all you want but football is the working class sport in this country. The working class boys are the sort on council estates more keen on playing football computer games then actual football.

The Olympic sports as at the last Olympics where a high amount of the winners came from private schools they tend to be more disciplined and determined and less likely to sit in the rooms playing computer games while eating McDonalds.

Lampard is the only one of the current England squad to come from a private schooling background and so many people in the game all compliment him on his determination and dedication. England want to improve they need more players with a private education behind them.

 

[milo]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Better class of person :lol:

You mean richer I presume, seeing as you're talking about private schools? Yet the players from the emerging countries are supposed to be coming straight out of the favelas?

Past trends. Results up to this point. Call it what you will, if you do not think we can learn from history the conversation is essentially over.

Regardless, highly developed countries manage to do really well. You're a highly developed country yet you don't despite the highest of ambitions and great interest. Germany have managed to turn their favours around, Belgium have made huge strides, as have Switzerland. At least for Germany and Switzerland, and I think for Belgium, this is not just a coincidence. This is the result of years of hard and smart work from associations (and clubs). It's not that Germans and Belgian parents just all of a sudden started sledge-hammering their children's playstations 10 years ago!

The gap between the top teams and the smaller teams has become smaller, the constant is that England are not a top team and not closing that gap. Organizational skills, management, coaching, players at smaller countries playing in the big European leagues are important factors here, as are other factors I'm sure. This idea that there's just something wrong with English children compared to children elsewhere is most likely not.

There was an interesting article on what Belgium did in the Guardian just before the World Cup started

http://www.theguardian.com/football...print-gave-birth-golden-generation-world-cup-

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Another good place to start would be with the players stopping being deluded. Wheelchair was just talking on the t.v. saying he was happy with his performances and he had shown what he could do.

wow wow wow if he is happy with that he has lower standards then DHSF after a couple of glasses of white wine.

 

[Roy1983]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Another good place to start would be with the players stopping being deluded. Wheelchair was just talking on the t.v. saying he was happy with his performances and he had shown what he could do.

wow wow wow if he is happy with that he has lower standards then DHSF after a couple of glasses of white wine.

Please tell me where you've seen this can't find it anywhere. I don't believe he said it???!!??! :ross:

 

[Seedy Ron]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

He said something similar on the radio after the game yesterday, thought it had been a decent performance etc. Can't expect too much from Jack's brain cell though.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Please tell me where you've seen this can't find it anywhere. I don't believe he said it???!!??! :ross:

was just on itv adrian chiles fella said here comes some wise words from Hodgson and the team and they had Lampard talking, I hate the guy but Lampard always come across quite well and honest. Then Wiltshire said he was happy and he had proved what he could do.

Which left me thinking delusions may now also be a part of our national teams problem.

 

[Raziel]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

was just on itv adrian chiles fella said here comes some wise words from Hodgson and the team and they had Lampard talking, I hate the guy but Lampard always come across quite well and honest. Then Wiltshire said he was happy and he had proved what he could do.

Which left me thinking delusions may now also be a part of our national teams problem.

Message from the top, if FA is happy enough with what Hodgson accomplished, why shouldn't **** face be happy with his shift, seems the ****ing bar is turning up.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Performances were fine (I didn't watch the CR game). A tight group, close, didn't quite make it. I see no reason to think that he's part of the underlying problem. Blaming one manager after another in a long line of often at least reasonable managers for the failures caused by underlying problems, now that's part of the problem.



Cheers



There are some other differences between the UK and the favelas as you know. But there are fewer differences between the UK and Germany, Holland, Croatia and Spain. So, what's the difference?

Blaming the kids makes no sense to me considering that you're very capable of succeeding in other sports.

Currently we seem to be more capable in more middle class sports - rowing, cycling, cricket, rugby (the proper one), etc. That's no surprise considering the parenting/obesity issues this country's working class are currently facing.

Football has probably suffered the most, but I'm sure there are plenty of other sports I don't follow that have also suffered from the "Shut up, eat your Greggs and watch Jeremy Kyle in silence" school of parenting.

As a side note, there's a lot of playing fields at the school where my wife teaches. I asked her today if they were used outside of lessons and apparently they're not. Reason being that the school WiFi signal doesn't reach that far so no kids go out there except the stoners/smokers that don't want to be seen.

 

[milo]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Currently we seem to be more capable in more middle class sports - rowing, cycling, cricket, rugby (the proper one), etc. That's no surprise considering the parenting/obesity issues this country's working class are currently facing.

Football has probably suffered the most, but I'm sure there are plenty of other sports I don't follow that have also suffered from the "Shut up, eat your Greggs and watch Jeremy Kyle in silence" school of parenting.

As a side note, there's a lot of playing fields at the school where my wife teaches. I asked her today if they were used outside of lessons and apparently they're not. Reason being that the school WiFi signal doesn't reach that far so no kids go out there except the stoners/smokers that don't want to be seen.

So we do better at sports where we naturalise foreign born players

I don't think that the issues with young footballers is a class one and I do not recognise the stereotypes that you are pushing. there are just as many bone idle middle class kids. besides, it is not as if we were churning out world class footballers twenty years ago either.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Another good place to start would be with the players stopping being deluded. Wheelchair was just talking on the t.v. saying he was happy with his performances and he had shown what he could do.

wow wow wow if he is happy with that he has lower standards then DHSF after a couple of glasses of white wine.

He would not make the Costa Rica team. Costa Rica had already topped the group so they were taking it easy and England still could not score

 

[Jordinho]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

[tweet]481856116129685505[/tweet]

 

[Seedy Ron]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

Presume the chap behind is the Microsoft guy who's going to plug it in for him.

 

[Rorschach]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

what are greggs?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: England's last world cup game for 12 years!!!!!

So we do better at sports where we naturalise foreign born players

I don't think that the issues with young footballers is a class one and I do not recognise the stereotypes that you are pushing. there are just as many bone idle middle class kids. besides, it is not as if we were churning out world class footballers twenty years ago either.

20 years ago was a particularly bad time for the England team. If you look at 18 years ago there was a lot of talent.

Again, it's not about the kids, it's the parents. I drive past/through a school crowd three days a week and there's a lot of fat kids - I mean a lot. There's plenty that are so fat they have to waddle too. So, so many more than when I was at school.

Whilst I'm sure you could find examples from all backgrounds, obesity is a problem that is overwhelmingly affecting the working classes. It's pretty easy to see this for yourself. Stand in an Iceland or a Greggs (or preferably outside one) and take into account accents and body mass. Then go and stand in Waitrose or M&S and do the same.

The issue with footballers isn't a class one, it's just that footballers almost exclusively have been working class in the UK. Obesity is something that's affecting that group more than most.