Kingdawson
Banned
Thanks for reading what i wrote.
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Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath
- Thread starter mick cooper
- Start date
Thanks for reading what i wrote.
I just hope this will not descend into oblivion, resulting in a few more transitional seasons.
worst case = end up fifth with no cup, leads to our top players going as it will be the 2nd consecutive season without CL football. Meaning we won't be able to attract bigger names, knocking us back untill we can muster up enough of a fight to get back 4th.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
And yet even then it could have been so much better.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
Sadly 6th place + FA Cup win = Most successful season in about 30 years :evil:
Have to chuckle really. Here we all are chucking our toys out of the pram because we may not finish in the top four and yet we've only managed that once in the last 22 years!! It sure beats the mid-table nothingness or worse the threat of relegation that we often had to endure in the 90's and for some of the 00's....
Leeds Spur
Banned
Two very big if's there, very big indeed.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
Yes, we could have finished 3rd and win the FA Cup. Anyone who seriously thinks we had a shot at the title is tripping out of their tiny mind. Our fans really do over rate some of our players......
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I dont believe for a second we would win the championship this season.
However, in my mind there is a big difference between
4th
3rd
3rd by about 10 points on 4th
Being in the race until the end would have been significant to me, even if on paper it isnt any higher up the league.
The bother I have this season is the amount of opportunity we have thrown away.
Thats not over rating our players, thats looking at what the players are perfectly capable of and wondering why the hell they dont do it.
However, in my mind there is a big difference between
4th
3rd
3rd by about 10 points on 4th
Being in the race until the end would have been significant to me, even if on paper it isnt any higher up the league.
The bother I have this season is the amount of opportunity we have thrown away.
Thats not over rating our players, thats looking at what the players are perfectly capable of and wondering why the hell they dont do it.
False Memories
It seems most people blame our poor run of results on Harry tinkering too much, and changing a winning forumla.
But looking back, the team's been changed regularly throughout.
I'll discount the first two games as half our current team was missing.
Wolves 2-0 > 4-4-2 > despite missing both Lennon and VDV. Niko played on the right, Ade and Defoe up top.
Liverpool 4-0 > 4-4-2 > this time VDV came on for Niko at half-time.
Wigan 2-1 > 4-4-1-1 > Ade up front, VDV behind him, Sandro and Parker in the middle, and Luka on the right.
Arsenal 2-1 > 4-4-2 > Ade and Defoe back up top, VDV on the right.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 2-2 > 4-3-3 > Ade up top, VDV and Bale supporting, Livermore in with Luka and Parker.
> So 5 good results and performances on the trot, despite missing Lennon, playing 3 different systems, and playing Sandro and Parker together against Wigan (where we played some fantastic football).
Blackburn 2-1
QPR 3-1
Fulham 3-1
Villa 2-0
> For 4 games in a row we then played the 'classic' 4-4-1-1 - Lennon back on the right, Ade up top, VDV behind him, Luka and Parker in the middle. We dominated QPR and Villa, but were dominated by Blackburn and Fulham and arguably didn't deserve even draws, let alone wins.
West Brom 3-1 > 4-4-2 > Were missing VDV and Modric, so replaced them with Defoe and Sandro. An excellent away performance despite missing Luka and VDV, and playing Parker and Sandro together in the middle.
Bolton 3-0 > 4-4-2 > Luka came back in for Sandro. Cahill sent off after 15 minutes made this one easy at home against a relegation candidate.
Stoke 1-2 > 4-4-1-1 > Back to the 'classic'. Played well and didn't deserve to lose, but got Foyed.
Sunderland > 1-0. ? > Not sure what we played here. Bale was missing and was replaced with Sandro, suggesting a 4-3-3. Pav came on for Lennon though after 27 minutes. Parker, Sandro and Modric all started.
> Again, a mixture of formations and lineups. Lost the only game in which we played 'the classic', though we were robbed.
Chelsea 1-1 > 4-3-3 > Ade, Bale and VDV supported by Sandro, Parker and Modric. Lennon out again. Pav came on for VDV at half-time.
Norwich 2-0 > 4-3-3- > Same starting lineup as previous game. Dominated Norwich, as Bale began 'the roam'.
Swansea 1-1 > 4-3-3 > Same system again. Swansea were the better team.
> Played the same 4-3-3 system 3 games in a row, with mixed results.
West Brom 1-0 > 4-4-2 > a return to 4-4-2, as VDV shifted out to the right and Defoe came in for Parker. Comfortable win.
Everton 2-0 > 4-4-1-1 > Almost 'the classic' as Lennon was back, but Livermore and Modric started in the middle. As they did against Norwich... We were level with United at this point.
> 2 wins with 2 different formations and lineups.
Wolves 1-1 > 4-4-1-1 > 'The classic' was back as Parker replaced Livermore. Dropped points here, but absolutely dominated Wovles.
Emirates Marketing Project 2-3 > 4-4-1-1 > 'The classic' again. Almost snatched the win, but ultimately got 0 points.
> 1 point out of 6 for 'the classic'.
Wigan 3-1 > ? > Again, not sure exactly what we did here. Niko came in for Lennon, I assume in a 4-4-1-1, but Livermore came on for Rafa after 30 minutes. A 4-3-3 with Niko and Bale supporting Ade? Either way, an easy win.
Liverpool 0-0 > 4-3-3? > Ade up top, Niko and Bale supporting, Livermore in with Luka and Parker in midfield. Quite a cautious, tense game. Not a bad result at the time.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 5-0 > 4-4-2 > Memories..... Ade and Saha up top, Niko and Bale out wide, Luka and Parker in the middle.
3 good results with 3 different formations and lineups.
Arsenal.... Where the downward spiral arguably began.
What is the point of all this?
There seems to be a perception, admittedly that I also had, that for most of our good run we played consistently 4-4-1-1 with Luka, Parker, Bale, Lennon, VDV and Ade. But actually we only played it four times in a row, then once against Stoke, then twice in a row against Wolves and City. Out of those 7 games we won 4, lost 2, drew 1. And against Blackburn and Fulham we were by far the worse team.
We didn't play 'the classic' 16 times, and had 12 wins, 4 draws and 0 losses.
A lot of the things that we've been complaining about - missing Lennon and / or VDV, switching lineups and systems from game-to-game, playing Sandro and Parker together, playing Livermore and Modric together etc - were constantly happening throughout the season, when we were on such a high.
When results start to go wrong, everyone naturally starts to make arguments for why. And tactics / lineups etc is probably the easiest thing to blame it on. But I think the above shows that our lineups and formations in this dip aren't really very different to those during our great run.
I think the difference is more to do with a tough run of games, a bit of bad luck (our recent performances against City, United, Everton, Stoke and Chelsea were all better than our earlier ones against Swansea, Fulham & Blackburn for example) and then, probably most importantly, the ensuing loss of momentum and confidence.
I'd be surprised if anyone reads all of this, but it's given me time away from two essays so it's served its purpose!
It seems most people blame our poor run of results on Harry tinkering too much, and changing a winning forumla.
But looking back, the team's been changed regularly throughout.
I'll discount the first two games as half our current team was missing.
Wolves 2-0 > 4-4-2 > despite missing both Lennon and VDV. Niko played on the right, Ade and Defoe up top.
Liverpool 4-0 > 4-4-2 > this time VDV came on for Niko at half-time.
Wigan 2-1 > 4-4-1-1 > Ade up front, VDV behind him, Sandro and Parker in the middle, and Luka on the right.
Arsenal 2-1 > 4-4-2 > Ade and Defoe back up top, VDV on the right.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 2-2 > 4-3-3 > Ade up top, VDV and Bale supporting, Livermore in with Luka and Parker.
> So 5 good results and performances on the trot, despite missing Lennon, playing 3 different systems, and playing Sandro and Parker together against Wigan (where we played some fantastic football).
Blackburn 2-1
QPR 3-1
Fulham 3-1
Villa 2-0
> For 4 games in a row we then played the 'classic' 4-4-1-1 - Lennon back on the right, Ade up top, VDV behind him, Luka and Parker in the middle. We dominated QPR and Villa, but were dominated by Blackburn and Fulham and arguably didn't deserve even draws, let alone wins.
West Brom 3-1 > 4-4-2 > Were missing VDV and Modric, so replaced them with Defoe and Sandro. An excellent away performance despite missing Luka and VDV, and playing Parker and Sandro together in the middle.
Bolton 3-0 > 4-4-2 > Luka came back in for Sandro. Cahill sent off after 15 minutes made this one easy at home against a relegation candidate.
Stoke 1-2 > 4-4-1-1 > Back to the 'classic'. Played well and didn't deserve to lose, but got Foyed.
Sunderland > 1-0. ? > Not sure what we played here. Bale was missing and was replaced with Sandro, suggesting a 4-3-3. Pav came on for Lennon though after 27 minutes. Parker, Sandro and Modric all started.
> Again, a mixture of formations and lineups. Lost the only game in which we played 'the classic', though we were robbed.
Chelsea 1-1 > 4-3-3 > Ade, Bale and VDV supported by Sandro, Parker and Modric. Lennon out again. Pav came on for VDV at half-time.
Norwich 2-0 > 4-3-3- > Same starting lineup as previous game. Dominated Norwich, as Bale began 'the roam'.
Swansea 1-1 > 4-3-3 > Same system again. Swansea were the better team.
> Played the same 4-3-3 system 3 games in a row, with mixed results.
West Brom 1-0 > 4-4-2 > a return to 4-4-2, as VDV shifted out to the right and Defoe came in for Parker. Comfortable win.
Everton 2-0 > 4-4-1-1 > Almost 'the classic' as Lennon was back, but Livermore and Modric started in the middle. As they did against Norwich... We were level with United at this point.
> 2 wins with 2 different formations and lineups.
Wolves 1-1 > 4-4-1-1 > 'The classic' was back as Parker replaced Livermore. Dropped points here, but absolutely dominated Wovles.
Emirates Marketing Project 2-3 > 4-4-1-1 > 'The classic' again. Almost snatched the win, but ultimately got 0 points.
> 1 point out of 6 for 'the classic'.
Wigan 3-1 > ? > Again, not sure exactly what we did here. Niko came in for Lennon, I assume in a 4-4-1-1, but Livermore came on for Rafa after 30 minutes. A 4-3-3 with Niko and Bale supporting Ade? Either way, an easy win.
Liverpool 0-0 > 4-3-3? > Ade up top, Niko and Bale supporting, Livermore in with Luka and Parker in midfield. Quite a cautious, tense game. Not a bad result at the time.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 5-0 > 4-4-2 > Memories..... Ade and Saha up top, Niko and Bale out wide, Luka and Parker in the middle.
3 good results with 3 different formations and lineups.
Arsenal.... Where the downward spiral arguably began.
What is the point of all this?
There seems to be a perception, admittedly that I also had, that for most of our good run we played consistently 4-4-1-1 with Luka, Parker, Bale, Lennon, VDV and Ade. But actually we only played it four times in a row, then once against Stoke, then twice in a row against Wolves and City. Out of those 7 games we won 4, lost 2, drew 1. And against Blackburn and Fulham we were by far the worse team.
We didn't play 'the classic' 16 times, and had 12 wins, 4 draws and 0 losses.
A lot of the things that we've been complaining about - missing Lennon and / or VDV, switching lineups and systems from game-to-game, playing Sandro and Parker together, playing Livermore and Modric together etc - were constantly happening throughout the season, when we were on such a high.
When results start to go wrong, everyone naturally starts to make arguments for why. And tactics / lineups etc is probably the easiest thing to blame it on. But I think the above shows that our lineups and formations in this dip aren't really very different to those during our great run.
I think the difference is more to do with a tough run of games, a bit of bad luck (our recent performances against City, United, Everton, Stoke and Chelsea were all better than our earlier ones against Swansea, Fulham & Blackburn for example) and then, probably most importantly, the ensuing loss of momentum and confidence.
I'd be surprised if anyone reads all of this, but it's given me time away from two essays so it's served its purpose!
Last edited:
Leeds Spur
Banned
fudging hell, fair play mate!
I thought I was tossing it off today!!
Interesting read, Harry seems to think 4-4-2 doesn't work though.
I thought I was tossing it off today!!
Interesting read, Harry seems to think 4-4-2 doesn't work though.
fudging hell, fair play mate!
I thought I was tossing it off today!!
Interesting read, Harry seems to think 4-4-2 doesn't work though.
Ha, my procrastination has reached new heights today....
Yeah, it's weird when you look at how good our record is with 4-4-2! Most of them 'the wonky' as well..... maybe it's not weird after all....
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/506159/Live
We started 4411 with Modric on the left, Sandro and Parker in the middle.
Then Lennon came off injured after half an hour .We went 442 with Pav and Ade up front and Modric and VDV on the wings!
seaside spur
Ronnie Rosenthal
Football can change in the blink of an eye, it's very fickle. We won't get murdered, they are not good enough.
We may get beat but we won't get battered. This is coming from the person that too odds of 11/2 before the scum game on us finishing outside the top four.
We aren't quite as good as some plaudits made out but we aint that bad either.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
I still think 'ol Henry can drag us over the finish line. He has done it before after bad runs. We thought it was all up in 08/09 as well. Quite simply: get Saha out and never play him again, play one of Defoe or Ade with VDV. Doesn't really matter which one, they're both brick.Just pick the one who looks a bit more in form - so Defoe right now. Don't play Livermore or Sandro anymore this season, unless we have injuries. The defence and midfield largely picks itself. It isn't a major issue. We could easily have won on Saturday, despite all the issues. We had a period where we on top in the 2nd half. Bale was unlucky. Then we had chances at 1-2. He seems to know he screwed up somewhat. I expect a win on Sunday.
The finish line was 3rd!
Sheikh Ma Nuggets
Tony Parks
And conversely, it could be so much worse. We could be Liverpool.
Where's the harm in being grateful for that which you actually achieve; why pine over that which, perhaps, you were never meant to? I'd take the FA Cup and qualification for the Champions League ANY SEASON. That's success, and a LOT more than most clubs, and a LOT more than we have been used to, of recent years.
At the start of the season, I don't recall us even being spoken about as 'champions league contenders' - instead, it was Man Utd, Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, Arsenal and then Liverpool, having spend ?ú100m. We didn't even get a mention in that bracket.
As it turns out, we've tracked closely with the top 2 for most of the season and held a firm grip on 3rd. Recently, we've lost that grip and now our attention is very much on keeping hold of 4th. As I said, considering we weren't even spoken about as being in contention, I'd be over the moon to finish with 4th.
Certainly beats moaning about not getting 3rd, that I do know.
Harry_Perkins
Ben Thatcher
So if we finish 4th it will have been a bad season? Give over!
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I would certainly enjoy a cup and fourth. At the same time I am quite capable of ruing the missed opportunity.