Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[Harry_Perkins]

And since you mention Kaboul, Harry actually brought Kaboul back again! Certainly he deserves as much credit as those that first signed him?

Well yes and no. He deserves some credit but I doubt he'd even be aware of him if he hadn't already signed for us in the first place. Or at least, he might have been aware of him but the groundwork would not have been done for him to sign for us instead of someone else. The same with a lot of the others I mentioned.

Then of course there are players like Colibaly, Ceballos etc who might make it, might not, either way he's trying to bring in people for the future

I'm less bothered about 'players for the future' and more concerned with younger players who are likely to make an immediate impact. The fact is, most of the big money does not go on the type of player, instead it goes/has gone on established older premiership players who will always cost a premium and who are unlikely to push us on. After all, if they were any good they'd already be with the top/richer clubs. Whereas we need to be smarter. I find it hilarious that Alex Ferguson had to spend 50m on players we signed for about 13m two years previous and would probably do the same if he could to get Bale and Modric (who, arguably, themselves were signed with the money that was gifted to us for Berbatov and Carrick). Yet, looking at the signings over the last four years, where is the same kind of situation?

Again, it isn't that the signings under Redknapp have been bad or haven't done a decent job, it is that they are not *smart*. And we need to be that up against the likes of Emirates Marketing Project and Man Utd, who obviously have vastly more resources.

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

Bit of a double edged sword really

On one hand this expresses just how well we have done this season

On the other it shows just how far we have fallen in a short space of time...

What's really depressing is seeing how far behind Emirates Marketing Project and Manure we are now, having been right in the mix seemingly only a month and half ago...not to mention those dirty goon cnuts are now three points ahead of us. At the start of the season (especially after the first two games) I would have been pleased to be in the position we are not, but at the same time would say its what we were aiming for, so not overachieving.

Given how we performed in the first half of the season its entirely fair to say that the second half has been a major disappointment so far. This is in part down to three of our key players (Bale, Modric, and VdV all performing poorly at the same time, along with Lennon being injured) however this is not the first time our season has collapsed under Redknapp, and if we finish fifth (or lower) again then serious questions have to be asked IMHO.

 

[braineclipse]

I think you agree with both of us, Im not disagreeing with Harry in his observation - thats fair - but also trying to point out we arent like any other club he has managed. I dont think we are in any real danger of what Harry fears

Yes.

Well yes and no. He deserves some credit but I doubt he'd even be aware of him if he hadn't already signed for us in the first place. Or at least, he might have been aware of him but the groundwork would not have been done for him to sign for us instead of someone else. The same with a lot of the others I mentioned.

I'm less bothered about 'players for the future' and more concerned with younger players who are likely to make an immediate impact. The fact is, most of the big money does not go on the type of player, instead it goes/has gone on established older premiership players who will always cost a premium and who are unlikely to push us on. After all, if they were any good they'd already be with the top/richer clubs. Whereas we need to be smarter. I find it hilarious that Alex Ferguson had to spend 50m on players we signed for about 13m two years previous and would probably do the same if he could to get Bale and Modric (who, arguably, themselves were signed with the money that was gifted to us for Berbatov and Carrick). Yet, looking at the signings over the last four years, where is the same kind of situation?

Again, it isn't that the signings under Redknapp have been bad or haven't done a decent job, it is that they are not *smart*. And we need to be that up against the likes of Emirates Marketing Project and Man Utd, who obviously have vastly more resources.

I think most signings under Harry have been smart and they have represented good value for money. Although I agree that I wish we were a bit more in tune with the international markets to try to get in another gem like Modric or Berbatov.

 

[parklane1]

I actually think that is a fair point made by Perkins. Harry has had a history of leaving clubs with more problems than they had when he arrived, and of buying a lot of older players, often on relatively big wages. At least from what I know and understand.

This is why Levy is doing such an important job, he is keeping Harry in check where other chairmen haven't. He is giving Harry a budget to work within, strict wage caps and seemingly he's insisting on signing some younger players. He's making Harry convince him (according to reports) that signings such as Parker are necessary, and that's a good thing.

As you say i do not think is coincidence that the clubs that Redknapp's walks from end up having serious financial problems, he never worries about the long affect his signings have on clubs as most of his buys are short term fixes. Thankfully Levy keeps him on a tight reign.

 

[milo]

I actually think that is a fair point made by Perkins. Harry has had a history of leaving clubs with more problems than they had when he arrived, and of buying a lot of older players, often on relatively big wages. At least from what I know and understand.

This is why Levy is doing such an important job, he is keeping Harry in check where other chairmen haven't. He is giving Harry a budget to work within, strict wage caps and seemingly he's insisting on signing some younger players. He's making Harry convince him (according to reports) that signings such as Parker are necessary, and that's a good thing.

Most managers given a blank cheque book will screw a club over. Look at the massive increase in the wage bill during O'Neill's time at Villa. If managers don't get instant results, they are sacked. Is it no wonder that, when given the chance, managers spend like crazy and don't think of the future?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Most managers given a blank cheque book will screw a club over. Look at the massive increase in the wage bill during O'Neill's time at Villa. If managers don't get instant results, they are sacked. Is it no wonder that, when given the chance, managers spend like crazy and don't think of the future?

Exactly. What manager other than Arsene Wenger is going to turn down money to spend on improving their squad if offered?

Dalglish has spent brick loads, as have plenty of other managers. Steve Bruce, Roy Keane, Rafa Benitez to name a few.

 

[milo]

Exactly. What manager other than Arsene Wenger is going to turn down money to spend on improving their squad if offered?

Dalglish has spent brick loads, as have plenty of other managers. Steve Bruce, Roy Keane, Rafa Benitez to name a few.

I'm sure Wenger would spend like crazy, if the money was available, he certainly hasn't been scared of spending big in the past and his spending on youth players is still very high.

 

[ArcspacE]

I'm sure Wenger would spend like crazy, if the money was available, he certainly hasn't been scared of spending big in the past and his spending on youth players is still very high.

How long are they still paying off that stadium for? Would he be alive to see the final product?

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Yes, it is a bit more of a risk but it was probably the only way for us to get top 4 and probably the only way we can sustain it, short of a bankroller owner. We would certainly not have done it signing the likes of Crouch, Parker, Defoe, Keane, Bassong, Palacios and so forth. We would have run out of money, for a start. All those players I named were also signed before we'd made the CL too. Why should it now be harder we've been it and should qualify again this year? Modric joined after we finished 11th, for example (although we had qualified for Europe by winning the Carling Cup). It just means being a bit smarter and doing the groundwork. See Bale on why he came here when he could have gone elsewhere. Are we doing that sort of groundwork under Redknapp? After 4 years now, you have to seriously doubt it.

I kind of agree with the point i think your trying to make. The were some on here mostly gutterboy who spotted diamo playing for brazil and we could have got him for about 5million now he is worth 20 odd million, then the are the likes of butland and redmond at brum who were in a bad financial state when their owner got into trouble we could have done a deal at the start of the season for them.

We kind of screwed over west ham a few times, something i find very funny. We do not seem to have the same look out for young talent that we did when we were trying to get to the top. I also feel that Saudi Sportswashing Machine have over taken us on the search for talent from abroad.

I actually agree with you when you lay the blame at redknapps door(if thats what your doing) when i heard him say that he was happy with pav and did not think the was a better player then him in the french league i was very alarmed. He was either lying in which case he should have just been honest and come out and said we did not have the money or he does not rate some very good strikers in the french league.

Redknapp seems scared about getting to the next level, maybe because he has only ever tried to get to the top 6 levvel and not kick on, he seems to enjoy managing world class players but does not want to stick his neck out and say who will become a world class player.

That wolfswinkle(spelling) was obviously going to be a good player and to think he was available last summer for just 5m.

Under jol he use to say we had to transfer budgets, one for the first team and one for the future. Im not sure if we are still doing that, but if you had one for the future and kept that at say 5m over the course of 2 seasons you could take a punt on a few championship players and if they were any good great and if not sell them on and try again. It only takes one lennon or bale to make it all worthwhile.

A couple of players i am convinced would be good for us in a couple of seasons time are dunk a passing and clean tackling centre back for brighton, who is great coming out the back with the ball for brighton, very tall and commanding in the air he loses his man now and again but that is to be expected with a young player. A 2m bid loaning him back to brighton for the year would work as brighton seem happy to sell their players.

Another one is luke wells at southampton, i have seen him live twice for the england youth team and i hope someone quotes this because im convinced he will be agreat player in a few years time, very fast a good passer but also seems to understand defending, he will be an england left back in the future. He would likely cost a bit more as a few teams are now following him.

Last thing i heard was that pleat was hired to look for domestic talent, which brings me despair as it makes me feel we will go back to the days of doherty and McEwan.

 

[braineclipse]

Most managers given a blank cheque book will screw a club over. Look at the massive increase in the wage bill during O'Neill's time at Villa. If managers don't get instant results, they are sacked. Is it no wonder that, when given the chance, managers spend like crazy and don't think of the future?

I agree with you. But I also think Harry has a fairly poor history in this regard, even when compared to other managers.

However, like you I think it's the job of the chairman (if the club doesn't have a sporting director) to curb the spending. They are ultimately responsible for the financial situation of a club, and in my opinion at least towards long term transfer strategy and planning.

 

[milo]

I agree with you. But I also think Harry has a fairly poor history in this regard, even when compared to other managers.

However, like you I think it's the job of the chairman (if the club doesn't have a sporting director) to curb the spending. They are ultimately responsible for the financial situation of a club, and in my opinion at least towards long term transfer strategy and planning.

Harry's history is irrelevant when he has had no involvement in the financial side of the club since he joined. How many of Harry's signings (other than possibly Parker) are worth less than we signed them for or we would have trouble moving on because of their wages?

 

[braineclipse]

Harry's history is irrelevant when he has had no involvement in the financial side of the club since he joined. How many of Harry's signings (other than possibly Parker) are worth less than we signed them for or we would have trouble moving on because of their wages?

I wouldn't say it's irrelevant, especially when we're talking about what Harry seems to prefer doing in the transfer market in general. But of course what he does at Spurs is the most important thing.

Keane is the one obvious expensive failure in his transfer dealings while at the club. A couple of smaller ones, but most of them have either done well for us for a period and thus served a good purpose, or cost us fairly little after we shipped them out again.

 

[WookieD]

I don't make a direct comparison. As I said, the chairman and owners of these clubs made poor decisions too. I just point out that he tends to want to spend the money he has available on older players and ideally those who've already played in the premier league. This pushes the wage bill up, the average age of the squad up and means that if we do eventually have to allow the likes of Modric and Bale to leave, there isn't anyone there to replace them. I was largely unmoved at the time when Carrick and Berbatov left because I always felt we could either sign more in the same mould or players were already there (Bale and Modric) who would come to the fore in terms of importance. But I haven't got that confidence with Redknapp.

What directly makes you feel like that. Whenever Harry is quoted nowadays, he is usually talking about young, international talent. Krasic has confirmed that he had an offer on the table to come to Spurs. Harry has publically spoken out on Loic Remy and Eden Hazard. He has admitted that we tried and failed with Giusseppe Rossi. There are plenty more examples. It isn't for a want of trying, but all the evidence and PROOF is there that THFC, including Harry Redknapp, are targeting upgrades to the squad.

Sure enough, we have had a few older heads come in. They have generally been free or so cheap they may as well have been and are on short term contracts. The long term targets remain youthful and highly ambitious... What's the problem?

 

[totman]

Harry's War Cry

Redknapp: We'll trump Gunners

Harry Redknapp still thinks Tottenham will finish above Arsenal this season - but says failing to finish in the top four would be a "big blow".

Saturday saw Spurs boss Redknapp watch his side take a crucial step towards finishing in the top four by drawing 0-0 at Chelsea, maintaining the five-point gap to their fifth-placed opponents.

However, the result was not enough to prevent them slipping further adrift of the resurgent Gunners, who racked up a seventh successive league win to turn what had threatened to be a 13-point deficit to their arch-rivals during last month's north London derby, into a three-point lead.

Tottenham have now gone five league matches without a victory, but their Stamford Bridge performance suggested that blip was about to end during a run-in that looks easier than that of their arch-rivals, who have Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea still to play.

Redknapp scoffed at suggestions third place may be beyond his side, saying: "No, it's not out of reach, of course not.

"I still think we'll finish above Arsenal - I need TP for my bunghole, Arsene!"

Wenger's Arsenal have never finished below Tottenham, who last ruled the roost in the capital in 1995.

They looked certain to do so a month ago but Spurs' mini-slump began to cast doubt on whether they would even secure a top-four spot.

"The position we were in a month ago, we looked nailed on, didn't we?" Redknapp said.

"It would be a bigger blow if we don't make it, that's for sure. That would knock me for six."

It really is now theirs to lose, with Chelsea facing an even tougher run-in than Arsenal, as well as a nightmare schedule that includes a Champions League quarter-final.

Redknapp admitted it would suit Spurs for the Blues to reach the semi-finals, saying: "Of course - we want them to go through.

"I think they'll beat Benfica over two games, although I think it'll be a tough game away first leg, and then obviously Barcelona in the semi-final.

"We're all hoping for that because we all want to come here (Stamford Bridge) and watch it - I certainly do."

Saturday's point was therefore arguably their most crucial of the season and Redknapp insisted that it would still be an achievement just to qualify for the Champions League.

Indeed, the 65-year-old suggested that was an even tougher task this year than when he led them into the competition in 2010.

He said: "Emirates Marketing Project are now established as a certainty, Man United are a certainty, Arsenal have been there every year, Chelsea, Liverpool are going to get stronger.

"You'd have thought if you can make it this year, it's going to be even harder."

He added: "I enjoyed it last year. It was new to me, it wasn't something that I've had.

"It's not been part of my life any more than it's been part of Tottenham's life.

"They've not been used to Champions League, so it wasn't suddenly: 'Oh my GHod, we've not got Champions League'."

With Redknapp favourite to become the next England manager, it may prove his only taste of the competition and he had a warning for whoever was in charge at White Hart Lane next season.

"If you want to do it again, you've got to improve," he said.

"These top teams are going to keep improving.

"Chelsea are not going to stand still. They are going to go out and improve their team because the owner does that.

"Emirates Marketing Project are going to improve, Man United, Arsenal are already making plans to bring new players in, Liverpool. It's getting tougher.

"There are six teams, really.

"That six are going to be there unless somebody buys one of the clubs.

"If they can get a Russian owner to buy Wigan who's got billions then they could win the league, couldn't they?

"That's how silly the game is."


Finally soem boosting words from the camp. The players, and Harry seem a little upbeat after a good perfromance at Chelsea, and the injury time Rafa goal v Stoke.

I dont know what to make of the rest of the season, but as long as the players and manager is up for it, then that gives us all a reason to get right behind them. This is going to be the most tense run in for years....even more than our battles with City in my opinion.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

What directly makes you feel like that. Whenever Harry is quoted nowadays, he is usually talking about young, international talent. Krasic has confirmed that he had an offer on the table to come to Spurs. Harry has publically spoken out on Loic Remy and Eden Hazard. He has admitted that we tried and failed with Giusseppe Rossi. There are plenty more examples. It isn't for a want of trying, but all the evidence and PROOF is there that THFC, including Harry Redknapp, are targeting upgrades to the squad.

Sure enough, we have had a few older heads come in. They have generally been free or so cheap they may as well have been and are on short term contracts. The long term targets remain youthful and highly ambitious... What's the problem?

As I said, it is one thing being aware of them, it is another thing getting the deal done. And what makes me say it is that we haven't signed a player in that mould for 4 years now under Redknapp. We might yet do it but I see no reason to have any confidence that we will.

 

[WookieD]

As I said, it is one thing being aware of them, it is another thing getting the deal done. And what makes me say it is that we haven't signed a player in that mould for 4 years now under Redknapp. We might yet do it but I see no reason to have any confidence that we will.

The financial side of things has absolutely nothing to do with Redknapp. Levy controls all fiscal elements of any transfer, in or out, at THFC. So the fact that Redknapp has identified and asked for the targets is his job done. Levy is the one failing to do the business. I say failing, what I mean to say is he has not found a deal he deems acceptable. Redknapp has identified plenty of targets he wants to add to his squad.

In that time, you don't see the same rumour mill about all of the Premiership players he is apparently targeting. Mostly, because he isn't. It should be pretty easy to recognise why he bought in Crouch and Defoe, we had sold ALL of our strikers and needed them back. Keane was the unfortunate side effect of Defoe getting a season ending injury, so no great shakes there either. And what is wrong with a manager wanting to bring back players he has worked with and likes? If AVB had come to us in the summer and brought Moutinho, you'd probably have been fawning all over him. Redknapp brings Kaboul back and turns him into one of our best defenders and people are still bitching!

 

[Harry_Perkins]

The financial side of things has absolutely nothing to do with Redknapp. Levy controls all fiscal elements of any transfer, in or out, at THFC. So the fact that Redknapp has identified and asked for the targets is his job done. Levy is the one failing to do the business. I say failing, what I mean to say is he has not found a deal he deems acceptable. Redknapp has identified plenty of targets he wants to add to his squad

Well partly I agree but I think it is more than a question of finances. As we face so much competition out there, we need to be doing that bit of extra groundwork for our targets. This can give us that crucial advantage against the competition. Whereas, at the moment, it seems that we only really deal with this around the time the window opens. Bale has said before that we were the first club to show a strong interest in him and that was the decisive factor in coming to Tottenham instead of going elsewhere. Time and time again, it is the not a case of identifying the targets but when you identify them and how and when you make the approach. And I think that some of that is at least partly down to Redknapp to deal with.

In that time, you don't see the same rumour mill about all of the Premiership players he is apparently targeting. Mostly, because he isn't. It should be pretty easy to recognise why he bought in Crouch and Defoe, we had sold ALL of our strikers and needed them back. Keane was the unfortunate side effect of Defoe getting a season ending injury, so no great shakes there either. And what is wrong with a manager wanting to bring back players he has worked with and likes? If AVB had come to us in the summer and brought Moutinho, you'd probably have been fawning all over him. Redknapp brings Kaboul back and turns him into one of our best defenders and people are still bitching!

I don't think I've said I've got a problem with him resigning his old players but it goes a bit beyond that. We've had also Freidal, Kaboul, Bassong, Keane, Saha, Adebayor, Nelson, Gallas and Parker. Even if he hadn't worked with Defoe and Crouch before, you would have to say he would probably have been looking to sign them anyway. And yes, we were short of strikers but does this mean he *had* to sign Defoe and Keane? And then Crouch in the summer? The well worn excuse is that we were in desperate trouble (for two of three anyway) and had to sign some but I think in all likelihood, on the basis of the rest of his signings since, if we'd been midtable, we would still have ended up with those three.

 

[scaramanga]

The financial side of things has absolutely nothing to do with Redknapp. Levy controls all fiscal elements of any transfer, in or out, at THFC. So the fact that Redknapp has identified and asked for the targets is his job done. Levy is the one failing to do the business. I say failing, what I mean to say is he has not found a deal he deems acceptable. Redknapp has identified plenty of targets

I think you're understating the role of the manager in the financial sense there.

I could sit in Levy's office and shout "Lionel Messi" in his face all day long. I've identified a target, he's very good, and he'd probably perform quite well in the Premiership.

That doesn't mean I've done my job and identified realistic, value for money targets.

 

[WookieD]

Well partly I agree but I think it is more than a question of finances. As we face so much competition out there, we need to be doing that bit of extra groundwork for our targets. This can give us that crucial advantage against the competition. Whereas, at the moment, it seems that we only really deal with this around the time the window opens. Bale has said before that we were the first club to show a strong interest in him and that was the decisive factor in coming to Tottenham instead of going elsewhere. Time and time again, it is the not a case of identifying the targets but when you identify them and how and when you make the approach. And I think that some of that is at least partly down to Redknapp to deal with.



I don't think I've said I've got a problem with him resigning his old players but it goes a bit beyond that. We've had also Freidal, Kaboul, Bassong, Keane, Saha, Adebayor, Nelson, Gallas and Parker. Even if he hadn't worked with Defoe and Crouch before, you would have to say he would probably have been looking to sign them anyway. And yes, we were short of strikers but does this mean he *had* to sign Defoe and Keane? And then Crouch in the summer? The well worn excuse is that we were in desperate trouble (for two of three anyway) and had to sign some but I think in all likelihood, on the basis of the rest of his signings since, if we'd been midtable, we would still have ended up with those three.

Well you're expecting too much of Reknapp then. If you mean that Redknapp should be making personal phone calls or even flying out to convince a player, then fair enough... but he does that. In terms of timing and strength of the approach, all he can do is tell Daniel who he wants. It's a laugh really... When Redknapp came in people were screaming blue murder that he'd wreck our finanances... Now that it is perfectly evident that Redknapp has no financial say in transfers many of the same people (not aimed at you) are bemoaning his lack of involvement as "That's what managers should do"... Make up your minds!

As to the players he has brought in, he brought in Defoe, who immidiately got a season ending injury, so we still needed a striker. Liverpool offer to jetison a player, at knock down price, on deadline day, who had a very good goal scoring record us... What you gonna do?

I'm sure you cannot be bothered to read this but I can give you a good reason for each any every player in.

Bassong: A Clairefontaine product with massive potential. He was a good buy but went backwards due to lack of opportunity.
Friedal: Is one of the best keepers in the league and free, gives us at least 12 months breathing space to find the keeper we want long term
Kaboul: Harry worked with him, liked him, brought him back and turned him into a fabulous defender
Keane: Offered at cut price when we were in a panic about losing Defoe to injury
Saha: Is a wonderful striker if you can keep him fit... A good January signing
Adebayour: Again, an extra 12 months breathing space to identify the long term option by loaning in a player that had been performing admirably at Real Madrid
Gallas: Inspired free transfer by a manager that continually gets performance out of "written off" players. When fit, he's as good as we have
Parker: The majority of our peers are absolutely kicking themselves for not making an offer on Parker

The only one I don't get is Nelson. You're honestly going ot sit here and complain that Harry has improved our squad, without spending any money, whilst buying Daniel Levy breathing space so he doesn't get rushed into buying the wrong players?

 

[WookieD]

I think you're understating the role of the manager in the financial sense there.

I could sit in Levy's office and shout "Lionel Messi" in his face all day long. I've identified a target, he's very good, and he'd probably perform quite well in the Premiership.

That doesn't mean I've done my job and identified realistic, value for money targets.

Not really mate, we've identified plenty of affordable players, but Levy didn't feel the package was right. Look at Rossi, we were close on that one. Admittedly Redknapp made the call on Suarez, but what a lucky escape that was, the bloke's an utter tool. If you look through the news in the last 18 months we have been in negotiations for quite a lot of players. Some turned us down, some we turned down, some we couldn't come to agreement on.

But to say that Redknapp is not doing his job of creating a meaningful target list is utter gonads. And to say that it in any way has a majority of "known" Premiership players on it is almost certainly gonads too.