Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[COYS]

Unfortunately in the modern game it is. In the old days finishing 8th but winning the FA Cup was deemed more of a successful season than finishing 2nd in the league but not winning the FA Cup. That has long changed. I don't like it, and morally I don't agree with it but the undeniable fact is finishing 4th IS more important (and therefore a better achievement) than winning the Europa League, FA Cup or League Cup.

Unless you finish 6th and win the CL.

If we had got in the CL this season then that would have opened doors to more success for us, though obviously those doors are now closed, so if the CL is not success, then it is certainly a gateway to success

 

[parklane1]

We hired Redknapp because when we hired him we were at his level, and we got lucky with him and he took the club as far as the club will go. That probably won't repeat itself with anyone else.

People are talking about Redknapp peaking, though it's not Redknapp that's peaked, it's our club. I know many people here are so ambitious and believe we should be challenging for the title, but unfortunately that's just not possible with our current wage cap. When Levy wants to get his cheque book out, we can start talking success.

Redknapp has showed on several occasions he has no plan B, lets be honest the game against Villa showed it. They had only won one of their last 11 games, we were all over them ( i was at the game) they were hanging on to a streaky draw and were there for the taking. What did our great tactical leader do, did he put on another striker to get us the win that would have GUARNTEED third? no of course not he put on a DM which sums him up.

 

[noddy1991]

The fact that at almost every club Redknapp has been at he has got them to overachieve. Rodgers like many before him has had a great first season with a newly promoted team in the PL but there is always that second season syndrome. Lets see how he does next season when expectations are higher, because if he can't come up with the goods with Swansea then he certainly won't be able to handle the pressure of managing a team who 90% of fans seem to think after qualifying for the CL once in its history, that is the minimum we should expect every season.....

yep he got west ham yes west ham to 2 5th places finishes, then he took pompey who previously had spent 1 year out of about 50 in the top division into a top 10 side and now he's had 3 consecutive top 5 finishes with us and some people still think he isn't doing a good job and someone else could do much better. get real.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Unless you finish 6th and win the CL.

If we had got in the CL this season then that would have opened doors to more success for us, though obviously those doors are now closed, so if the CL is not success, then it is certainly a gateway to success

The thing that astounds me about it though, is that every Chairman and club seems to regard it as the be all and end all, and yet almost all "regular" self sustaining clubs that get into it seem to overspend massively and get themselves into financial trouble. Arsenal fans moan about the lack of money Wenger spends but it's kept them competitive over a longer run. Credit to Levy/Redknapp also for not going out and burning millions trying to chase the dream. With a sugar daddy it has to be done prudently, even if that means we don't make it regularly.

 

[elltrev]

Unfortunately in the modern game it is. In the old days finishing 8th but winning the FA Cup was deemed more of a successful season than finishing 2nd in the league but not winning the FA Cup. That has long changed. I don't like it, and morally I don't agree with it but the undeniable fact is finishing 4th IS more important (and therefore a better achievement) than winning the Europa League, FA Cup or League Cup.

Why don't you agree with it morally? For me finishing higher in the league is a better achievement than winning the FA cup, because it happens over 38 matches rather than 6.

 

[COYS]

Redknapp has showed on several occasions he has no plan B, lets be honest the game against Villa showed it. They had only won one of their last 11 games, we were all over them ( i was at the game) they were hanging on to a streaky draw and were there for the taking. What did our great tactical leader do, did he put on another striker to get us the win that would have GUARNTEED third? no of course not he put on a DM which sums him up.

Fine, he's frustrating a lot of the time, but at least he's a great motivator, and if anyone can make the players forget about last night for next season, it's him.

How he managed to get that team from 2 years ago to finish 4th, I'll never know.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Redknapp has showed on several occasions he has no plan B, lets be honest the game against Villa showed it. They had only won one of their last 11 games, we were all over them ( i was at the game) they were hanging on to a streaky draw and were there for the taking. What did our great tactical leader do, did he put on another striker to get us the win that would have GUARNTEED third? no of course not he put on a DM which sums him up.

Not many Managers do. I don't think fans realise how tough it is to change the mentality of a game. Did FC Bayern look like they have a plan B yesterday? It amused me no end seeing Spurs fans reactions to the FC Bayern performance. Almost every neural I've spoken to seems to think Bayern played them off the park and it was a travesty that they lost. It just goes to show that when you have a vested interest in one of the teams all of a sudden the emporer's new clothes often becomes so apparent. I've often supported Man Utd in the Champions League and have often thought "WTF is Fergie doing? Why doesn't change it? Why are they playing so poorly?". Arsenal fans don't think Wenger has a Plan B. A lot of Utd fans think Fergie doesn't either. Are they right? Probably not. It's just that when you have a vested interest in the match, emotions start to cloud reasonable judgement.

Season before last year we had a target man (Crouch) who we could hit it long to if required. We certainly had the potential to mix it up more than this year because you hit it long to Ade and it bounces off of him. Our fans complained. This year we've played the Tottenham way....and our fans complained #-o I guess it just goes to prove you can't please all the people all of the time.

 

[parklane1]

Fine, he's frustrating a lot of the time, but at least he's a great motivator, and if anyone can make the players forget about last night for next season, it's him.

How he managed to get that team from 2 years ago to finish 4th, I'll never know.

This thing about being a great motivater is not what is holding us back from getting further though ( and i feel players like Bent, Dos Santos etc may disagree with your point)its the tactical side of the game that he lacks and if we are to challenge the top we need a manager who can do that.

 

[billyiddo]

yep he got west ham yes west ham to 2 5th places finishes, then he took pompey who previously had spent 1 year out of about 50 in the top division into a top 10 side and now he's had 3 consecutive top 5 finishes with us and some people still think he isn't doing a good job and someone else could do much better. get real.

yes west ham who had the most ridiculous crop of youth players all come through at the same time

Portsmouth who had a huge amount of money pumped in to them (outspending every single team in the championship) to the premiership - no real need to point out where all that over spending got them in the long run is there ?



btw who exactly has said he hasn't done a good job here overall ? i haven't seen one person - not even the most staunch of the harry haters say they aren't appreciative of what he has achieved here - do people just repeat that to themselves hoping to be true or something ?

whether he has done well and whether he is the right person to take us forward are two separate questions, some people would do well to remember this.

 

[COYS]

Why don't you agree with it morally? For me finishing higher in the league is a better achievement than winning the FA cup, because it happens over 38 matches rather than 6.

Because if we want to win cups, we need good players. If we had qualified for the CL then we would have a better squad next season, but now I don't think we will

 

[africanspurs]

woohoo...MK is baaaaacckkk.!!!!

so much for an Old school GG exit...hehe, knew he couldnt stay away. especially from this thread

 

[COYS]

This thing about being a great motivater is not what is holding us back from getting further though ( and i feel players like Bent, Dos Santos etc may disagree with your point)its the tactical side of the game that he lacks and if we are to challenge the top we need a manager who can do that.

If we are to challenge at the top we need money more than a good manager.

 

[elltrev]

yes west ham who had the most ridiculous crop of youth players all come through at the same time

Portsmouth who had a huge amount of money pumped in to them (outspending every single team in the championship) to the premiership - no real need to point out where all that over spending got them in the long run is there ?



btw who exactly has said he hasn't done a good job here overall ? i haven't seen one person - not even the most staunch of the harry haters say they aren't appreciative of what he has achieved here - do you (and others) just repeat that to yourselves hoping to be true or something ?

whether he has done well and whether he is the right person to take us forward are two separate questions, some people would do well to remember this.

Sheffieldspur. And lots of people have implicitly suggested that he's played no part in our recent success.

 

[billyiddo]

Sheffieldspur. And lots of people have implicitly suggested that he's played no part in our recent success.

i must have missed that, but if that's the case then fair enough

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Why don't you agree with it morally? For me finishing higher in the league is a better achievement than winning the FA cup, because it happens over 38 matches rather than 6.

Because when I first started watching football the FA Cup was a massive deal. Team's took it seriously, the form book could go out of the window (look at us beating Arsenal in 1991!). Winning the FA Cup was more special than finishing 2nd. It was the domestic seasons champagne event. The FA Cup hasn't been the same since the inception of the Premier League and it was finished forever when Utd bowed out of it to play in the World Club Cup.

My ideal scenario would be to see the end of the Champions League and for it to go back to the old European Cup style competition for league winners only. But at the very least if they want the FA Cup to mean something again they need to award the winners (and only the winners, not the runner up if the winners have already qualified via the League) a place in the Champions League. They need to do the same with the Europa League winners too.

 

[parklane1]

Not many Managers do. I don't think fans realise how tough it is to change the mentality of a game. Did FC Bayern look like they have a plan B yesterday? It amused me no end seeing Spurs fans reactions to the FC Bayern performance. Almost every neural I've spoken to seems to think Bayern played them off the park and it was a travesty that they lost. It just goes to show that when you have a vested interest in one of the teams all of a sudden the emporer's new clothes often becomes so apparent. I've often supported Man Utd in the Champions League and have often thought "WTF is Fergie doing? Why doesn't change it? Why are they playing so poorly?". Arsenal fans don't think Wenger has a Plan B. A lot of Utd fans think Fergie doesn't either. Are they right? Probably not. It's just that when you have a vested interest in the match, emotions start to cloud reasonable judgement.



Season before last year we had a target man (Crouch) who we could hit it long to if required. We certainly had the potential to mix it up more than this year because you hit it long to Ade and it bounces off of him. Our fans complained. This year we've played the Tottenham way....and our fans complained #-o I guess it just goes to prove you can't please all the people all of the time.

I disagree, the really top managers have the tactical ability to change a game more often then not. As for last nights game according to the stats Bayern had 34 shots ( 21 on target) compered to Cheski who has 9 (6 on target) so yes they were far the better side.

 

[parklane1]

If we are to challenge at the top we need money more than a good manager.

Sorry mate that is rubbish, what about KK and the money he spent.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

If we are to challenge at the top we need money more than a good manager.

This. Irrespective of the run of games or how it is achieved (e.g. if we blaze a trail in the first half of a season and then stutter over the line, or if we have a poor start and have a terrific end to a season) if we finish 3rd we're in dream world (because there is no way we should be there with the current financial situation OR the current crop of players), if we finish 4th we've punched above our weight and should be delighted, if we finish 5th we should be pleased and if we finish 6th we should be content because...

a) we don't have the money for massive transfer fees OR wages so we are unlikely to be able to compete for our rivals for a "sure thing" improvement
b) we don't have the money or the wage budget to buy five or six players to take a chance on who the big boys aren't interested in yet, e.g. Berbatov, Modric, Sandro etc. And if you buy five or six players like that, only one or two ever turn out to be as good as Berbatov or Modric. We simply can't afford to speculate ?ú40m of funds to find all of them flop.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I disagree, the really top managers have the tactical ability to change a game more often then not. As for last nights game according to the stats Bayern had 34 shots ( 21 on target) compered to Cheski who has 9 (6 on target) so yes they were far the better side.

OK, what do you think Bayern's plan B was?

 

[elltrev]

Because when I first started watching football the FA Cup was a massive deal. Team's took it seriously, the form book could go out of the window (look at us beating Arsenal in 1991!). Winning the FA Cup was more special than finishing 2nd. It was the domestic seasons champagne event. The FA Cup hasn't been the same since the inception of the Premier League and it was finished forever when Utd bowed out of it to play in the World Club Cup.

My ideal scenario would be to see the end of the Champions League and for it to go back to the old European Cup style competition for league winners only. But at the very least if they want the FA Cup to mean something again they need to award the winners (and only the winners, not the runner up if the winners have already qualified via the League) a place in the Champions League. They need to do the same with the Europa League winners too.

I can understand why people who grew up with the FA Cup being really important are sad to see it lose its magic.

I think it's the increased European spots and the financial reward for them that has made the FA Cup less important, rather than the Premier League itself.

Still, I maintain that good league position is normally a better achievement than winning a cup (though of course it depends on the context and the detail). For example, this year finishing above Chelsea and Liverpool over 38 games is a better achievement than would have been beating them in the semi and final respectively IMO.