Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[elltrev]

If Harry would have got us 50 points and every other team got 37 points, we'd have won the league, not through Harry's genius, but because he seriously underachieved and got a mid table points tally, but every other club fudged up beyond belief. Harry shouldn't get the sack for winning us the league, but if he finished 8th with that point tally, he should.

It's not as simple as as sacking Harry because another team won a penalty shootout. It's about not wanting to give him an extended contract because we were in a position that our fate was decided by two opposite teams... The important thing about Arsenal, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Chelsea's last half a dozen games of the season was that Harry could fluke getting CL football for us due to the other teams messing up.

I personally decided to wait until the end of the season to vote because I wanted the full picture, the game that decided our season was the CL final. No matter what happened, the highs and lows of the season from the team itself were still the same, but like the Arsenal - West Brom game, our final season result was decided elsewhere in the end.


If we'd have finished 3rd because Foster played and only gifted Arsenal 1 or 2 goals instead of 3, then you simply can't sack Harry for finishing 3rd, regardless of Arsenal losing to Wigan (at home), drawing with Norwich (at home) and Chelsea's second team (at home), plus drawing or losing to West Brom away.

Let's not forget, Saudi Sportswashing Machine lost to Wigan (away) and Everton (away), two tough games, in addition to City at home... If they'd have won 2 of those 3, they'd have finished 3rd.

So if Saudi Sportswashing Machine would have finished 3rd, Arsenal 4th and Spurs 5th, Harry would be even more likely to be sacked, no?


To top it off, if Harry would have sealed 3rd on the final day (whether by beating Villa and Fulham or because Arsenal drew or lost their last 2), Harry still would have deserved a few joke type comments about nearly letting a 13 point lead slip and so on. Or, if you think Levy could have given him a slap on the wrist for nearly losing it, then possibly that, but you can't slap Harry on the wrist when he's finished 3rd, just like it's very hard to sack him for getting us CL football.

You can blame Harry for taking his eye off the ball when it came to Capello resigning, the point slip since that time (and subsequent Bale roaming) are some of the many reasons that we weren't safely in 3rd when the penalty shootout in question happened... It's just important that you wait until the end of the season before deciding whether or not to sack the manager.

Look at Mancini, when he lost the title at Arsenal, people were debating whether he'd be sacked... It turned out that Emirates Marketing Project won the title, despite them being totally out of it.

Did Man United losing to Wigan, drawing with Everton and losing to City mean that Mancini fluked the title? Maybe a little bit, but he goes from zero to hero anyway and is unsackable.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say!?

My point was that you shouldn't base your belief on whether or not Harry should be sacked PURELY on whether or not we got CL (which is what the poster that I initially responded to was saying), because much of that was out of our hands. League position or, even better IMO, number of points is a far more fair and sensible kind of target to use if you're that way inclined.

More generally speaking, I think basing ones opinion strictly on whether or not we reached a specific target is a simplistic and short-term way of thinking that is pretty foolish IMO. Unfortunately it's rife in football.

It seems you partly agree with me in that you don't think Harry's future should hinge on the outcome of the Bayern-Chelsea game. But it seems that you disagree with me in that you place a lot of importance on league position rather than points total.

 

[bookhouseboy]

That's the conundrum for me, I'm not too sure who.
However, I can see stagnation and a downward trend from here as I generally think Harry has run out of puff and I think he wont cope with the extra pressure and extra attention teams will give us now.

I think his coaching set-up has peaked, sadly. Liverpool fans who could see the writing on the wall for Rafa were also asked "who could take over"? There is a danger of worse stagnation when everything is alowed to just stay the same, when it looks like things will get no better (as I believe is the case with Harry and us).

It might be worth the risk to just cut loose and start again, with next season showing progress and perhaps a cup. I'd take 6th Place with a cup win for example, as long as we showed signs of progess, for example:

- Being able to fully utilise a SQUAD
- Being able to compete in a European trophy and stay competitive in the league (EL Semis and always being there or thereabouts with regards to top 4)
- Members of youth squad being intergrated more
- not falling apart just because one winger is injured
- winning a game at OT, Bridge
- Winning a cup game where we are the overwhelming underdogs
- Winning an FA Cup semi final and the a Final!

FWIW, I wouldn't mind Rodgers having a chance...

Good post; not surprised the "it's all about what table-position we get and no f***ing context when we review a managers performance"-squad continues to blindly stare at the triffic table for last season and hail Redknapp for a job well done.

 

[bainz]

Redknapp, will and should stay... End of!!

 

[elltrev]

Good post; not surprised the "it's all about what table-position we get and no f***ing context when we review a managers performance"-squad continues to blindly stare at the triffic table for last season and hail Redknapp for a job well done.

In fairness, the nice thing about the league points total is that it's objective. People have different opinions on Harry, but the number of points we won are fact.

I don't think anyone would suggest that Harry has no faults, but IMO the "the table-position is totally irrelevant and Redknapp is brick and clueless and deserves no credit for our recent sucess" squad is the most blind of all of us.

 

[markysimmo]

Mail online

The Daily Mail, must be true then...

WALOB

 

[markysimmo]

Im hoping PSG sack Ancelotti for not winning the french league this season..

He was always my number one choice as new manager

 

[Fuego]

I didnt want to quote your whole post but I found the last line pretty funny. and ill tell you why.

To get in world class players you will need more than CL football... you need to pay world class salaries. WE DO NOT HAVE THAT. So you can have all the CL football your hearts desires but ultimately you wont get in the Agueros or the Hazards etc because we do not and cannot pay the 100k week salaries that these stars want.

Our transfer targets do not and will not change. The same players we wanted prior to tonights game will remain the same now. The only difference that will have is who we retain - that is another question.

My definition of "World Class" is probably different from your definition. I use the term more loosely than most, I was amazed to hear Wenger talk about there not being 11 World Class players in the world.


I just meant, someone very very very very very good... Ade probably would have qualified purely because he's the exact type of lone centre forward that suits us most. But Drogba is a better player, despite not being able to play intricate one-twos, not being able to play as many minutes in the season as he could when he was younger and so on...

But yes, Drogba and Ade are on wages totally out of our league.

Llorente would never come to us. Bilbao would never let him go and so on... But his wages are less than ?ú3 mil per year, it's somewhere around 45k per week, I think. (Although I think that region of Spain has somewhat lessened tax for Llorente), but he's one of the best lone strikers in the world and his wages aren't in the 250k range.)


Realistically, I was stuck. I couldn't say "Holt instead of Llorente" because we are unlikely to get Llorente, there are very very very very very few lone strikers in the world that I rate, that we could afford.


That said, Bale, Modric, VDV are all world class to me. Kaboul has potential, we need a CB anyway, we need a striker anyway but as I said, Ade would have qualified for world class, Sandro has potential to be world class and it's hard to say with Parker, one of the best DMs in the league, but who are world class DMs? Every DM has a weakness, you're left with a very short list of obvious choices for destroyer type DMs and one of them is a Barca CB now.

Tiote isn't world class to me, Lucas is probably the best destroyer type DM in the league, Sandro isn't world class yet but has the potential to be, so how do I rate Parker?

In Brad, we have one of the Premier League's best ever goalkeepers, but his glory days are behind him now, so he might have been world class once, but he isn't now.... Walker and BAE are not world class, Walker is very young and with experience might somehow turn world class, BAE is impossible to rate... He's not world class, yet he defends in two positions, is one of our key players when in possession and gets his fair share of goals/assists (for a full back)... It's hard to find many PL left backs to replace him with... But that doesn't make him world class, it just means the PL doesn't have many world class left backs... Lennon isn't world class, but Jol indentified him along with Berbatov as our two best attacking players, so I am beyond biased at this point when it comes to Lennon... He's still young and he stays on the right wing... He's been a fixture so long that I really can't rate him objectively... I know deep in my heart that he's not world class, but I have a highlight reel going on in my head whenever I think of him... The way he can dance around players, the assist he got that is one of my favourite assists to any Spurs goal, the way he gives us width, attacking threat and helps out defensively...

He may not be world class, but if I could have a striker that I regard as highly as Lennon, I'd be insanely happy.... That said, everyone dropping Lennon for new players makes me sad... But I digress.

I used "World Class" very loosely.... I just meant a lone striker that'd be somewhere around Ade or Berba's level rather than Pav, Crouch, Bent, etc. (I still love Crouch for the good times, but you know... Same could be said for Gomez.)

 

[COYS]

I don't think you can argue we should sack Redknapp without being able to name a replacement. We can't just sack him and hire Steve Kean or someone like that. We'd need a proven replacement, and I can't think of any realistic replacement that's as good as Harry

 

[scaramanga]

I don't think you can argue we should sack Redknapp without being able to name a replacement. We can't just sack him and hire Steve Kean or someone like that. We'd need a proven replacement, and I can't think of any realistic replacement that's as good as Harry

Actually we need someone better.

My Nan's not working at the minute....

 

[COYS]

But nobody can give any proven better names. Why? Because nobody has proven themselves to be better. We're not good enough for anyone else and nobody else is good enough for us. We can't hire someone like Brendan Rodgers, because he's not proven at the top and if he's brick then we're back to where we were 10 years ago; new manager every season, finishing mid-table.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Because we finished 4th I certainly would not advocate he get the sack. On the other hand because of the monumental collapse we suffered I certainly would not offer him a new contract. He would have to earn it otherwise I would let him go when his contract ends

 

[parklane1]

We hired Redknapp who has won one trophy in over 30 years, so whats to say that Rodgers is any less proven.

 

[billyiddo]

But nobody can give any proven better names. Why? Because nobody has proven themselves to be better. We're not good enough for anyone else and nobody else is good enough for us. We can't hire someone like Brendan Rodgers, because he's not proven at the top and if he's brick then we're back to where we were 10 years ago; new manager every season, finishing mid-table.

people seem to think that a manager winning trophies elsewhere = doing a good for us (nothing else matter just that they have won trophies abroad-or managed a g14 club) whilst a manager who can get a small side with limited options in the transfer market playing good/winning football in the top tier of English football isn't worth a chance because he hasn't won any trophies yet.

it's fudged up and the number one reason why English managers are seldom seen at the top level - not because they aren't good enough, because no one will give them the opportunities their foreign counterparts get

 

[COYS]

We hired Redknapp who has won one trophy in over 30 years, so whats to say that Rodgers is any less proven.

Because when we hired Redknapp he was our sort of manager for where we were in the league, and thankfully we got lucky with him and he got us back in to the top 5 of the league. However if we try that one again with Brendan Rodgers we probably won't be so lucky.

 

[COYS]

people seem to think that a manager winning trophies elsewhere = doing a good for us (nothing else matter just that they have won trophies abroad-or managed a g14 club) whilst a manager who can get a small side with limited options in the transfer market playing good/winning football in the top tier of English football isn't worth a chance because he hasn't won any trophies yet

Yes, exactly that. Why should we gamble with success when we've reached the peak of success anyway?

It's a money game. We can't do any better without other big clubs' money so we either take what we've got now, or just slide down. If Redknapp had as much money as all the other big clubs, we'd win the league without a doubt.

 

[harr1984]

The fact that at almost every club Redknapp has been at he has got them to overachieve. Rodgers like many before him has had a great first season with a newly promoted team in the PL but there is always that second season syndrome. Lets see how he does next season when expectations are higher, because if he can't come up with the goods with Swansea then he certainly won't be able to handle the pressure of managing a team who 90% of fans seem to think after qualifying for the CL once in its history, that is the minimum we should expect every season.....

 

[parklane1]

Because when we hired Redknapp he was our sort of manager for where we were in the league, and thankfully we got lucky with him and he got us back in to the top 5 of the league. However if we try that one again with Brendan Rodgers we probably won't be so lucky.

But your point was that we can not risk appointing a unproven manager, every manager at some time has been unproven we need a manager who can take us on and Redknapp has reached his level. So do we stagnate with him or do we be bold and try and attract a manger who has his future in front of him.

 

[COYS]

But your point was that we can not risk appointing a unproven manager, every manager at some time has been unproven we need a manager who can take us on and Redknapp has reached his level. So do we stagnate with him or do we be bold and try and attract a manger who has his future in front of him.

We hired Redknapp because when we hired him we were at his level, and we got lucky with him and he took the club as far as the club will go. That probably won't repeat itself with anyone else.

People are talking about Redknapp peaking, though it's not Redknapp that's peaked, it's our club. I know many people here are so ambitious and believe we should be challenging for the title, but unfortunately that's just not possible with our current wage cap. When Levy wants to get his cheque book out, we can start talking success.

 

[billyiddo]

Yes, exactly that. Why should we gamble with success when we've reached the peak of success anyway?

It's a money game. We can't do any better without other big clubs' money so we either take what we've got now, or just slide down. If Redknapp had as much money as all the other big clubs, we'd win the league without a doubt.

one season in the Champions League is not what id call success mate - it's a good achievement but not success. if we are just going to flirt with 4th/5th id rather see us give a young manager with potential the chance to create something here rather than just go season to season buying tired old players on one year contracts living off the talented players that were already here.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

one season in the Champions League is not what id call success mate - it's a good achievement but not success. if we are just going to flirt with 4th/5th id rather see us give a young manager with potential the chance to create something here rather than just go season to season buying tired old players on one year contracts living off the talented players that were already here.

Unfortunately in the modern game it is. In the old days finishing 8th but winning the FA Cup was deemed more of a successful season than finishing 2nd in the league but not winning the FA Cup. That has long changed. I don't like it, and morally I don't agree with it but the undeniable fact is finishing 4th IS more important (and therefore a better achievement) than winning the Europa League, FA Cup or League Cup.