Gareth Bale

[Jordinho]

Re: Gareth Bale

The question was 'why didn't he put his right foot down'.


I answered it. Didn't say anything about his arms, so not sure why you're bringing that up to me.

He isn't trying to ride the tackle. You can clearly see he is about to put it down, but suddenly changes his mind and stretches it out while going to ground.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Gareth Bale

We see it all the time when players go down in the box when they are fouled, but the refs don't give it because the player has made the most of it.

I'm not saying he should just stand there and not move if a player is bearing down on him and is looking to two foot it, do your best to get out of the way. But that rule doesn't apply EVERY TIME Bale is fouled or not even touched in some cases. Someone mentioned the Aston Villa game earlier in the thread. I'm sorry but that one was a joke in there was zero danger of Bale getting hurt on that occasion, the keeper actually pulled out of the tackle.

I'll say it again, my main issue with this topic is people defending our players but slaughtering other teams players for doing the same. Just say everyone does it and don't get on your high horse when a player does it against Spurs.

As fans we are always going to be biased because we want the best for spurs - that will happen with every club and with every set of fans no matter what.

The villa one - you could argue a valid point there - I agree with that.. Although Bale didnt appeal for the free kick or anything so im unsure whether he dived or not.

Also people mentioned Adam because it was only since then that this whole furore about Bale diving has come into play because since then he has learnt to hurdle challenges. Its funny because divers have the art of diving down to an art - Bale when diving looks theatrical because 'diving' isnt natural to him because HE ISNT a diver.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Gareth Bale

Foy tolerates a lot of physical play and Bale's theatrics are way OTT.

Dude like I say you do not need to be touched to be a foul. There doesnt have to be any physical contact for it to be a foul. What happens after the foul has been committed should be irrelevant because a foul is a foul and if a player is fouled he cannot be accused of simulation. The guy fouled him whether bale dived or not shouldnt even come into contention (It is not like he was waving an imaginary card to get him yellow carded etc)

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Gareth Bale

Dude like I say you do not need to be touched to be a foul. There doesnt have to be any physical contact for it to be a foul. What happens after the foul has been committed should be irrelevant because a foul is a foul and if a player is fouled he cannot be accused of simulation. The guy fouled him whether bale dived or not shouldnt even come into contention (It is not like he was waving an imaginary card to get him yellow carded etc)

I've never said it wasn't a foul. I'm just seeing it from a non Spurs tinted glasses POV. A ref like Foy doesn't give fouls cheaply.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Gareth Bale

He isn't trying to ride the tackle. You can clearly see he is about to put it down, but suddenly changes his mind and stretches it out while going to ground.

Not imo, the contact puts him off balance and is the reason he goes down.


It's a foul. That's pretty much the end of what i have to say on this.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Gareth Bale

I've never said it wasn't a foul. I'm just seeing it from a non Spurs tinted glasses POV. A ref like Foy doesn't give fouls cheaply.

Well you cant see it from a non spurs pov because the chances are yeah it aint a foul. But we all judge it based on whether players have been touched etc. What you need to do is apply the rule - was it simulation to gain an advantage? nope. Because it was a foul.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Gareth Bale

As fans we are always going to be biased because we want the best for spurs - that will happen with every club and with every set of fans no matter what.

The villa one - you could argue a valid point there - I agree with that.. Although Bale didnt appeal for the free kick or anything so im unsure whether he dived or not.

Also people mentioned Adam because it was only since then that this whole furore about Bale diving has come into play because since then he has learnt to hurdle challenges. Its funny because divers have the art of diving down to an art - Bale when diving looks theatrical because 'diving' isnt natural to him because HE ISNT a diver.

To be honest, that tackle by Adam was a shocker and that sort of thing should result in a ban for as long as the injured player is out for. But he was diving long before that incident.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Gareth Bale

Well you cant see it from a non spurs pov because the chances are yeah it aint a foul. But we all judge it based on whether players have been touched etc. What you need to do is apply the rule - was it simulation to gain an advantage? nope. Because it was a foul.

Yes, it was a foul, but why go down the way he does? Foy is a brick ref and quite possibly wouldn't have given a free kick, but it only serves to give Foy an excuse to book him.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Gareth Bale

Yes, it was a foul, but why go down the way he does? Foy is a brick ref and quite possibly wouldn't have given a free kick, but it only serves to give Foy an excuse to book him.

Exactly

Escpecially when he knows he's a marked man.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Gareth Bale

Yes, it was a foul, but why go down the way he does? Foy is a brick ref and quite possibly wouldn't have given a free kick, but it only serves to give Foy an excuse to book him.

So now we are not in the diving territory we are into the theatrics of it because we now established that he was fouled therefore did not dive (as by definition per the football rules he did not try to gain an advantage nor did he feign injury).

As for the theatrics - he shouldnt be yellow carded for that - do the rules say anything about theatrics after a foul has been committed? Is he theatrical though? I dont know thats how he falls whether you or the ref sees it as theatrical thats your view points but it isnt a matter of fact that he is theatrical or its how he falls When youre off balance you fall in a number of ways in different manners.

Theatrical falls are not even an excuse for giving a yellow simply because it was a foul. So a ref shouldnt have excuses to dish out yellows he should be dealing with fact (as far as he can see in the game)

The first question a ref should ask himself is was it a foul? Yes - then it cannot be a dive no matter how theatrical. If the player did not make a challenge and the player theatrically fell then that is a yellow certainly.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Gareth Bale

I just think it was unnecessary and have no problems with him getting booked for it.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Gareth Bale

I just think it was unnecessary and have no problems with him getting booked for it.

Agree to disagree but not only do I think it was wrong to book him I would actually appeal against Foy on the grounds that he is a brick referee who didnt give a foul and doesnt know the rules and laws that govern the whole diving subject

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: Gareth Bale

So now we are not in the diving territory we are into the theatrics of it because we now established that he was fouled therefore did not dive (as by definition per the football rules he did not try to gain an advantage nor did he feign injury).

As for the theatrics - he shouldnt be yellow carded for that - do the rules say anything about theatrics after a foul has been committed? Is he theatrical though? I dont know thats how he falls whether you or the ref sees it as theatrical thats your view points but it isnt a matter of fact that he is theatrical or its how he falls When youre off balance you fall in a number of ways in different manners.

Theatrical falls are not even an excuse for giving a yellow simply because it was a foul. So a ref shouldnt have excuses to dish out yellows he should be dealing with fact (as far as he can see in the game)

The first question a ref should ask himself is was it a foul? Yes - then it cannot be a dive no matter how theatrical. If the player did not make a challenge and the player theatrically fell then that is a yellow certainly.

I cannot pretend to fully understand the laws of the game, but if a player attempts to exaggerate the impact of a foul in order to influence the ref, can that not be construed as ungentlemanly conduct?

http://www.wfms.org/Other/Football/FIFA/law12.html

(11) Any player, whether he is within or outside the field of play, whose conduct is ungentlemanly or violent, whether or not it is directed towards an opponent, a colleague, the referee, a linesman or other person, or who uses foul or abusive language, is guilty of an offense, and shall be dealt with according to the nature of the offense committed.

I sympathise with Bale, replays suggest it was a foul and that a free kick should therefore have been awarded to Spurs, but that is for the ref to decide, not Bale. We have the benefit of slo-mo replays, the ref has to make his mind up in an instant. In this case he appears to have decided rightly or wrongly it was not a foul, but that in his opinion Bale's theatrics constituted ungentlemanly conduct. It doesn't matter how irksome he or we find that outcome, that's the way refs are looking at it and they are the ones in charge of the game.

Therefore regardless of any mitigating circumstances does not Bale need to get real and adjust his behaviour accordingly?

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Gareth Bale

I just think it was unnecessary and have no problems with him getting booked for it.

You obviously havent played football at a high level and taken on players at top speed to be able to make a comment like that.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Gareth Bale

I cannot pretend to fully understand the laws of the game, but if a player attempts to exaggerate the impact of a foul in order to influence the ref, can that not be construed as ungentlemanly conduct?

http://www.wfms.org/Other/Football/FIFA/law12.html

(11) Any player, whether he is within or outside the field of play, whose conduct is ungentlemanly or violent, whether or not it is directed towards an opponent, a colleague, the referee, a linesman or other person, or who uses foul or abusive language, is guilty of an offense, and shall be dealt with according to the nature of the offense committed.

I sympathise with Bale, replays suggest it was a foul and that a free kick should therefore have been awarded to Spurs, but that is for the ref to decide, not Bale. We have the benefit of slo-mo replays, the ref has to make his mind up in an instant. In this case he appears to have decided rightly or wrongly it was not a foul, but that in his opinion Bale's theatrics constituted ungentlemanly conduct. It doesn't matter how irksome he or we find that outcome, that's the way refs are looking at it and they are the ones in charge of the game.

Therefore regardless of any mitigating circumstances does not Bale need to get real and adjust his behaviour accordingly?

Bale didnt react ungentlemanly he didnt gesticulate in any way shape or form about getting a foul - he didnt wave his arms in the air he didnt act injured or anything and he certainly didnt try to influence the referee. Bale had acted ungentlemanly towards Foy only after Foy accused him of diving. I dont begrudge Bale for that. I would have done a lot worse.

Foy was not too far from the incident and if he cannot gauge that Sidwells leg cutting across someone at full pelt as Bale was a foul then then Foy's competence as a referee (which if hasnt) should be called into question and not whether Bale is a diver or not.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Gareth Bale

You obviously havent played football at a high level and taken on players at top speed to be able to make a comment like that.

No, but I have watched several other top players not go down like that.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Gareth Bale

No, but I have watched several other top players not go down like that.

Not the same I'm afraid to say. Your comment "why didnt he just put his right foot down" shows naievity in the extreme.

The players listed as divers Ronaldo, Suarez, Henry, Bale etc are all players that take opponents on at speed and as Phil Neville said on MOTD it only takes the smallest touch at that pace for the player to go down. Add to that a keen sense of self preservasion that these type of players have to develop to stop the likes of Adam ending their careers and you have your answer.

 

[DHSF]

Re: Gareth Bale

Its funny because when a guy gets his shirt pulled at one of the corners or free kicks and the player falls down like a sack of spuds its a free kick or penalty. No one talks about theatrics there. Why? because its obvious whether the guy is having his shirt pulled even though a pulled shirt does not make a guy fall down like a sack of spuds with his arms flapping about. Yet a guy who is running at full pelt waves his arms whilst falling - that gets questioned haha.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Gareth Bale

Its funny because when a guy gets his shirt pulled at one of the corners or free kicks and the player falls down like a sack of spuds its a free kick or penalty. No one talks about theatrics there. Why? because its obvious whether the guy is having his shirt pulled even though a pulled shirt does not make a guy fall down like a sack of spuds with his arms flapping about. Yet a guy who is running at full pelt waves his arms whilst falling - that gets questioned haha.

Excellent point.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: Gareth Bale

Bale didnt react ungentlemanly he didnt gesticulate in any way shape or form about getting a foul - he didnt wave his arms in the air he didnt act injured or anything and he certainly didnt try to influence the referee. Bale had acted ungentlemanly towards Foy only after Foy accused him of diving. I dont begrudge Bale for that. I would have done a lot worse.

Foy was not too far from the incident and if he cannot gauge that Sidwells leg cutting across someone at full pelt as Bale was a foul then then Foy's competence as a referee (which if hasnt) should be called into question and not whether Bale is a diver or not.

Listen I was as outraged as you at the booking, but we need to address what is actually happening around Bale at the moment, not all the other stuff you are dragging in. There is obviously a perception among refs rightly or wrongly that he is over-reacting in the way he goes down. The sooner Bale gets that and modifies his reactions the sooner we can all move on.

The booking was clearly awarded purely for the way, in the opinion of the ref, Bale went to ground, and nothing else. All the other stuff is irrelevant. Yes it's a matter of opinion as to whether he went down theatrically or not, and it may well be that he didn't, but that doesn't matter, what matters is in the opinion of the ref he went down in a manner calculated to influence the decision. That's what Bale needs to deal with, and fast.