Gareth Bale

[braineclipse]

Re: Gareth Bale

as for the bit in bold, you say this but we have never actually done that to the point of if being a trend. our squad over the last 14 years has experienced every single need possible and been in every spectrum of transition and continuity available at the start of a summer and yet we have never ever truly gambled on a true unknown. we have bought youngsters but even they had marketability or their talent was enough to superceed the commercial needs of a transfer..and when that was the case we paid through the nose. as skyfarer says..commolli was a scatter gun type but he was a closer and he hit a few bulls eyes .

was AVB a talent scout though? didnt i hear he was an opposition scout and made dossiers on other teams and their players more for a competitive standpoint? if he is was primarily and full on talent scout then sure but i dont know what an oppostion scout does but i do know what a talent scout does and how they decide who to watch. If AVB wasnt a talent scout then who is to say his network is that extensive anyway?

hold on, when AVB didnt have a job he scouted players from south america for a long time? jeez thats dedication, where is that info anyway? is south america that lacking in talent that we couldnt find anyone for us this summer? why didnt we get anyone in? actually, where did you even read that from?

as for the policy, i think you have it the wrong way round....levy's policy doesnt fit with AVB....AVB was hired , IMHO , under the absolute knowlegde that he would have to work within the guidelines of levy's policy. AVB is levy's boy..., AVB is much more a coach than he is a SAF type manager, i mean think about it...if levy's transfer policy is right on the mark with AVBs then that means that upon all of AVBs scouting potential and talent assessment he actually sat there and thought "we dont need a striker, we should just only have adebayor extra, and if we want to get a striker we should go for leANDRO.....oh and dempsey is the man"

where as IMV, ade and leandro we from the administrations reccomendation and dempsey is a prem proven low risk squad purchase with american market potential.

i would be very surprised if we went for unknown youngsters for our first team squad like wenger does....and does successfully......next season

What do you mean by unknown youngsters? How often does Wenger sign unknown youngsters for the first team squad? What players specifically are you talking about here?

For me unknown youngsters will almost by definition be long term prospects. I'm thinking players like Ceballos, Falque, Coulibaly, that Croatian kid we were linked with a couple of days back.

You're right that AVB was more of an opposition scout, that's why I said "impression of" about that as it's not really that solid, then went on to something I think is a bit more concrete-ish. Him spending time in South America was reported quite widely at the time we hired him, I though it was a fairly accepted fact. Not sure why we didn't sign anyone, although we were linked with Oscar. Of course South Americans need work permits that can be difficult in England, could be part of the reason, but that's nothing more that speculation.

I don't know, for me at least AVB has been tutored by Mourinho and Porto. Mourinho frequently signs fairly young players that teams can build around for years, often looking to (slightly) smaller leagues for those players. Yes, he also signs big profile players, but apart from his Inter days he seems to build somewhat young players quite often. More than that the Porto way most definitely is the way of signing younger players. I also though Chelsea signed a lot of promising young players under AVB, like Courtois, Lukaku, Romeu etc. Of course you can argue that those were Abramovich doing his thing, but to me those signings seemed more like AVB signings than "Chelsea signings".

Of course Levy will have his input, as will the scouts/chief scouts/technical director/whoever is part of the transfer team. As it should be in my opinion. They will have to agree, if AVB wants someone that Levy is doubtful about then AVB will have to convince Levy that this target is the man to go for. As I believe Harry had to do with Parker, and as I think Harry tried, but failed to do with Joe Cole.

I might be repeating myself a bit here, but I really think we were in a somewhat chaotic state coming into last summer. Transitional season type chaotic state (cue transitional season debate). We needed players that could slot straight in and do a job, we needed hard working good all round players like Dempsey and Sig. We needed to steady the ship, we've seen the club spiral out of control before after losing key players, the first priority was to make sure that didn't happen and that the short term results were acceptable.

You might find it impossible that AVB actually wanted Dempsey for example, I don't personally. He was also wanted by Rodgers, another former Mourinho man. He had just had a very good season in the PL, he fit the bill as a hard working, professional player who could play a couple of positions.

I also think that after the Chelsea experience AVB was more careful about changing things too quickly, bringing back Adebayor who had been successful at Spurs the previous season, bringing in some proven PL players seems like a good way to go about changing things a bit slower and not make the mistake of bringing in too many young unproven players into the side at the same time.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Gareth Bale

in which case i am not impressed with his talent scouting......he could have probably done better and for cheaper. how does swansea manage it? or anyone that gets good value for money as opposed to ones that coincidentally fit right in with our policy.

its so weird to hear people know exactly what the transfer agenda is now. i remember back in the day when we used to argue what it was, nayim at the time didnt think it was at it is now...stubborn as he was he fought tooth and nail against that idea that it was a risk to age to reward type optimisation. aaahh the memories

Could have done better, for cheaper, with a larger risk perhaps? A part of Swanse's success is a fairly strict transfer policy actually from what I understand.

I can't claim to know exactly what the transfer agenda is now, just my thoughts and speculations based on what I see. If my opinions comes across as someone who claims to know what I cannot know I will have to reconsider the wording of my posts.

We will of course just wait and see what happens in the summer.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Gareth Bale

I'm not suggesting that the club signed players that he didn't want but we'd been linked with most of our signings for a while before AVB arrived.

Sure, there weren't any massive surprise signings last summer. And we were linked with them, and it seems likely that they were scouted by us before and that Redknapp would have been interested in signing several of them.

I'm glad you're not suggesting that we signed players that AVB didn't want.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Gareth Bale

What do you mean by unknown youngsters? How often does Wenger sign unknown youngsters for the first team squad? What players specifically are you talking about here?

i would class the likes of scenzeny and jenkinson. And to the level of exposure and marketability that was available at the time perhaps even sagna and vermaelen....though i dont think either of those count as unknown...however their markets were not prolific by any stretch...but i do see your point here, not many of the youngsters are signed for the first team regular

For me unknown youngsters will almost by definition be long term prospects. I'm thinking players like Ceballos, Falque, Coulibaly, that Croatian kid we were linked with a couple of days back.

long term prospects are not for the first team, they are more profile altering and youth standard raising players that makes the overall quality of what we produce from the ground up better and gives us more exposure / credentials. the croatian kid is actually one thats meant for the first team if we are thinking of the same player...but we would really have to pay and allegedly his talent is undeniable to the point that exposure isnt as much an issue

You're right that AVB was more of an opposition scout, that's why I said "impression of" about that as it's not really that solid, then went on to something I think is a bit more concrete-ish. Him spending time in South America was reported quite widely at the time we hired him, I though it was a fairly accepted fact. Not sure why we didn't sign anyone, although we were linked with Oscar. Of course South Americans need work permits that can be difficult in England, could be part of the reason, but that's nothing more that speculation.

yeah, i still see hopefullness in all this. a dream of some how conjuring up a barcelona / lite first team that AVB can work with and make some sort of great season next year...on a shoe string budget. stuff of fairy tales and bed time stories we'll tell the next gen. nah, i think the hard cold reality of the past CONSISTENTLY being carried out to the level of a hard trend is too much to ignore

I don't know, for me at least AVB has been tutored by Mourinho and Porto. Mourinho frequently signs fairly young players that teams can build around for years, often looking to (slightly) smaller leagues for those players. Yes, he also signs big profile players, but apart from his Inter days he seems to build somewhat young players quite often. More than that the Porto way most definitely is the way of signing younger players. I also though Chelsea signed a lot of promising young players under AVB, like Courtois, Lukaku, Romeu etc. Of course you can argue that those were Abramovich doing his thing, but to me those signings seemed more like AVB signings than "Chelsea signings".

yeah i am pretty sure mourinho had his pick of players all across the world. so instead of older and talented, he probably went with young , hungry and talented....and costly. i wouldnt use mourinho in this case...or a league that only has two teams in it. not saying that being tutored under the special one is not an immense thumbs up...but more that i still dont see the whole relative unknown gem credentials i am supposed to associate with AVB

Of course Levy will have his input, as will the scouts/chief scouts/technical director/whoever is part of the transfer team. As it should be in my opinion. They will have to agree, if AVB wants someone that Levy is doubtful about then AVB will have to convince Levy that this target is the man to go for. As I believe Harry had to do with Parker, and as I think Harry tried, but failed to do with Joe Cole.

agree with this

I might be repeating myself a bit here, but I really think we were in a somewhat chaotic state coming into last summer. Transitional season type chaotic state (cue transitional season debate). We needed players that could slot straight in and do a job, we needed hard working good all round players like Dempsey and Sig. We needed to steady the ship, we've seen the club spiral out of control before after losing key players, the first priority was to make sure that didn't happen and that the short term results were acceptable.

dont get me started on this LOL. but either way and for whatever reason you mention here, the fact is that we spent and targets the same way we have always done under enic...at least in recent years if not the last 14

You might find it impossible that AVB actually wanted Dempsey for example, I don't personally. He was also wanted by Rodgers, another former Mourinho man. He had just had a very good season in the PL, he fit the bill as a hard working, professional player who could play a couple of positions.

if avb targeted dempsey then i am not impressed with his choice...however i dont say that dempsey is bad though, certainly not at that price and what he returns. but if dempsey is where his magic mind takes him to then i am pretty sure at least 3 people on this site can select targets....(obviously an exaggeration / joke)

I also think that after the Chelsea experience AVB was more careful about changing things too quickly, bringing back Adebayor who had been successful at Spurs the previous season, bringing in some proven PL players seems like a good way to go about changing things a bit slower and not make the mistake of bringing in too many young unproven players into the side at the same time.

perhaps, but again..we behave like we aLWAys do , whatever reason you might want to generate...thats the main thing

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Gareth Bale

fudging AVB ...genious. Master stroke with dempsey!"!!!!!

 

[Papercut]

Re: Gareth Bale

Greedy, sell him

 

[Pandy]

Re: Gareth Bale

AVB will have a large amount of power over transfers, but obviously this power will be checked by others such as Levy, our scouts, etc.

The signings of Sig, Dempsey and Holtby are all evidence of this. VDV was one of the most gifted players at the club but he did not have the physique, the work ethic or the tactical application required for Villas-Boas football. So we got rid and replaced him with more versatile players, capable of and willing to play in multiple positions, something untrue of VDV. Hardworking yet technical, they are attacking midfielders who provide industry between the lines along with a goal threat, although they are less individually talented than VDV. Moreover Sig and Holtby are much younger than VDV while Dempsey, whose playing style is more akin to theirs, has acted as a more experienced and reliable version of them.

Obviously Sig, Dempsey and Holtby each have a different balance of these traits, but they are all vital for the football we're playing at the moment, a brand defined by AVB. If he wasn't a major influence in each of these 4 transfers I would be amazed.

 

[Pandy]

Re: Gareth Bale

Back on topic... Glad we've finally won a game without Bale scoring so the commentators can be quiet about that run. Although he had a couple of great chances namely the one he missed on his right after great play from the Mouss and the one at the end, although he seemed content with winning the corner for the latter. Hopefully he's saving a hat-trick for Sunderland next weekend!

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Re: Gareth Bale

AVB will have a large amount of power over transfers, but obviously this power will be checked by others such as Levy, our scouts, etc.

The signings of Sig, Dempsey and Holtby are all evidence of this. VDV was one of the most gifted players at the club but he did not have the physique, the work ethic or the tactical application required for Villas-Boas football. So we got rid and replaced him with more versatile players, capable of and willing to play in multiple positions, something untrue of VDV. Hardworking yet technical, they are attacking midfielders who provide industry between the lines along with a goal threat, although they are less individually talented than VDV. Moreover Sig and Holtby are much younger than VDV while Dempsey, whose playing style is more akin to theirs, has acted as a more experienced and reliable version of them.

Obviously Sig, Dempsey and Holtby each have a different balance of these traits, but they are all vital for the football we're playing at the moment, a brand defined by AVB. If he wasn't a major influence in each of these 4 transfers I would be amazed.

Agree with everything and couldn't have put it better myself, brilliant post mate =D>

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Gareth Bale

perhaps, but again..we behave like we aLWAys do , whatever reason you might want to generate...thats the main thing

It seems that we more or less agree, so I just picked out this one part of your post to also point out that I largely agree with this too.

I think there's a slight difference from the Redknapp days, he seemed to prefer settled and somewhat older, primarily PL proven players I thought. So far the difference hasn't been massive between him and AVB, I suppose the difference was bigger between Redknapp and Comolli/Ramos/Arnesen?

I agree though, we will continue doing what Levy thinks we should do, overall, as our primary strategy. I just think that strategy fits better with the what AVB seems to want though. Again, largely agreeing with you, and just my impression.

 

[Robbo]

Re: Gareth Bale

Back on topic... Glad we've finally won a game without Bale scoring so the commentators can be quiet about that run. Although he had a couple of great chances namely the one he missed on his right after great play from the Mouss and the one at the end, although he seemed content with winning the corner for the latter. Hopefully he's saving a hat-trick for Sunderland next weekend!

Yes, I thought there would be some interesting Gareth Bale news in here, but this thread has gone terribly off topic. ](*,)

Glad to see us win without him scoring too, but that said, I think Bale looked really up for it today. He really looked like he needed to win this game.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Gareth Bale

Yes, I thought there would be some interesting Gareth Bale news in here, but this thread has gone terribly off topic. ](*,)

Glad to see us win without him scoring too, but that said, I think Bale looked really up for it today. He really looked like he needed to win this game.

Sorry about my part of that... :s *holds hand up in a Gareth Barry like manner*

We really need the transfer sub-forum back I think, transfer discussions are growing by the day and spreading into many other threads like this one.

 

[metalgear]

Re: Gareth Bale

[video=youtube;2FlRezXaRi8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2FlRezXaRi8[/video]

THFC TV blooper reel: Bale vs Interviewer

 

[raboner]

Re: Gareth Bale

Class.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Re: Gareth Bale

Interview with Bale reiterating he wants to play abroad at some point got me thinking. He's only 23. If we have him at 24 then great, but the big boys dont lose their big players until they are at least around 27,28. Look at Fibreglass, Henry, Van Persie etc. They all had 5+ years of greatness at the goons and were sold at a late age. It would be such a shame to not get at least 3 or 4 more years out of Bale. We need to invest massively this summer and get big players.

 

[indianspur]

Re: Gareth Bale

Interview with Bale reiterating he wants to play abroad at some point got me thinking. He's only 23. If we have him at 24 then great, but the big boys dont lose their big players until they are at least around 27,28. Look at Fibreglass, Henry, Van Persie etc. They all had 5+ years of greatness at the goons and were sold at a late age. It would be such a shame to not get at least 3 or 4 more years out of Bale. We need to invest massively this summer and get big players.

yeah but constant CL football helped a lot

a player of Bale's talent not playing in the CL is a travesty

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Re: Gareth Bale

That is very true. I just wish players didnt give a fcuk about the Champions League.

 

[Wriggly]

Re: Gareth Bale

That is very true. I just wish players didnt give a fcuk about the Champions League.

Blame marketing guru's. Look at the CL teams, take away the top 8 and the rest of them are garbage. Look at the EL this season and there was a whole host of top clubs in there.

Even Ade's interview about being in the CL was nuts, he was asked what he likes about it. He said, the music.

 

[Mumorn]

Re: Gareth Bale

yeah but constant CL football helped a lot

a player of Bale's talent not playing in the CL is a travesty

this.

If we were getting CL football but not challenging for the title (Arsenal), then you'd hope Bale would stay for a few more years. If we don't get CL which would mean not competing for the title, then you'd expect him to leave a lot sooner.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Re: Gareth Bale

Haha I saw that. Thats the only thing I like about it too. I can see it from a fans perspective, and yes it looks great on your CV if you win it. But footballers have the money, surely that should be enough!?? Or is it now about what you win, rather than what you can buy or both?