Etienne Capoue

[harr1984]

I thought he was excellent last night. Our best player overall, IMO, and got better as the game went on.

Yes, he played some good forward passes and got into some goalscoring/attackiong positions too which Ive never seen him do....

 

[AdamB]

Why has he started every league game if Poch isnt sure about him?

I think he's started every game because we lack options in that area. That said, if I was in charge I would continue to start with Capoue and Mason in CM - reason being that Mason is about the only CM who we have who plays the ball quickly and simply so the attacks keep moving. Given his size and forward looking nature, I would start Capoue with him to give Mason some cover.

I do think that the jury is still out on whether Capoue can get to the level we need him to be if we're going to become serious top 4 challengers and if he's going to be a starter. Found it odd that he started last night, unless BS is going to come in on Sunday, but thats got to be unlikely

Generally I think our CM options are a complete mess: we have Dembele who isnt an attacking CM nor defensive and who slows up attacks by taking about 8 touches when 1 or 2 would be better. Paulinho doesnt influence games anywhere near as much as a senior CM in teh PL needs to. Stambo is still a complete unknown whilst, as per above, Capoue is still trying to prove himself. Bentaleb, Carroll and Mason all have potential so are worth keeping at the club and hopefully Carroll will come back more first-team-ready after his loan. If I was POch for a day, I'd flog Dembele and Paulinho before their values deteriorate from not playing and then, if Stambo/Capoue dont convince, use the cash to get in a decent CM leader. I'd like to see the 3 young uns given an extended go because at least they can pass a ball

 

[harr1984]

I think he's started every game because we lack options in that area. That said, if I was in charge I would continue to start with Capoue and Mason in CM - reason being that Mason is about the only CM who we have who plays the ball quickly and simply so the attacks keep moving. Given his size and forward looking nature, I would start Capoue with him to give Mason some cover.

I do think that the jury is still out on whether Capoue can get to the level we need him to be if we're going to become serious top 4 challengers and if he's going to be a starter. Found it odd that he started last night, unless BS is going to come in on Sunday, but thats got to be unlikely

Generally I think our CM options are a complete mess: we have Dembele who isnt an attacking CM nor defensive and who slows up attacks by taking about 8 touches when 1 or 2 would be better. Paulinho doesnt influence games anywhere near as much as a senior CM in teh PL needs to. Stambo is still a complete unknown whilst, as per above, Capoue is still trying to prove himself. Bentaleb, Carroll and Mason all have potential so are worth keeping at the club and hopefully Carroll will come back more first-team-ready after his loan. If I was POch for a day, I'd flog Dembele and Paulinho before their values deteriorate from not playing and then, if Stambo/Capoue dont convince, use the cash to get in a decent CM leader. I'd like to see the 3 young uns given an extended go because at least they can pass a ball

Just cant agree with that, if Poch didn't fancy him he would have at least tried others in a league game or two - we have a lot of CMs that he should have started instead of Capoue just to try something different if he didn't really fancy him. He started him in the first game and has picked him every time in the PL since, you dont do that if you dont fancy a player....

 

[AdamB]

Just cant agree with that, if Poch didn't fancy him he would have at least tried others in a league game or two - we have a lot of CMs that he should have started instead of Capoue just to try something different if he didn't really fancy him. He started him in the first game and has picked him every time in the PL since, you dont do that if you dont fancy a player....

Where did my post say that Poch didnt fancy him? I said that the jury is still out on him - he's neither proven or unproven. He's being given his chance to prove himself. You would hope that by the end of the season he will have proved himself and we'll be able to look back at certain games in which he's been MOTM. I think he's been ok/good so far but no better

 

[LCLC]

He always walks around like he has a limp, i'm not his biggest fan because he ambles but he did show he can make a long range pass last night which i didnt think he had but didnt see him under pressure. I get the feeling Poch isnt sold on him yet.

Cabaye and Tiote won the midfield battle last time we played Saudi Sportswashing Machine last season so he'll have to be up for it on sunday

From his first game against palace e has always shown a great passing range.

 

[supie]

Where did my post say that Poch didnt fancy him? I said that the jury is still out on him - he's neither proven or unproven. He's being given his chance to prove himself. You would hope that by the end of the season he will have proved himself and we'll be able to look back at certain games in which he's been MOTM. I think he's been ok/good so far but no better

I'd be inclined to agree with you and your original post also. For me the big issue with Capoue is his lack of positional awareness and the fact that when he does get caught out he is too slow to recover.

Alonso for Real Madrid played in a double pivot under Mourinho and was arguably, after CR7, Madrid's stand out player during this period. In terms of pace, arguably Alonso is even slower than Capoue, however his positional play ensured that rarely, if ever, was he exposed. Cambiasso while at Inter was similarly deployed and again, while painfully slow, was one of their stand out players the year they won their historic treble.

The point being that lack of pace doesn't have to mean that you can't triumph in this position, however being slow and continually getting yourself caught too far up the field and away from the shielding role you are primarily deployed to carry out, is a problem.

Capoue's passing range and tackling technique are good and he doesn't dwell on the ball too much, if, and it's a big if at this stage; however, if Poch could get him to become more disciplined defensively, he may just work and become a top defensive midfielder for us. If he cannot improve this part of his game, then I think we need a replacement.

As you say, let's hope we are all saying by seasons end that he has been one of our better players.




Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[LCLC]

IMO he is a good player but in today's game I think to have such a lack of mobility is criminal in the PL. Against athletic oppo he will always look a bit leggy. Like him and I love the 'tackle' he put on silva last week - we need players with a bit more spite in them

 

[braineclipse]

I'd be inclined to agree with you and your original post also. For me the big issue with Capoue is his lack of positional awareness and the fact that when he does get caught out he is too slow to recover.

Alonso for Real Madrid played in a double pivot under Mourinho and was arguably, after CR7, Madrid's stand out player during this period. In terms of pace, arguably Alonso is even slower than Capoue, however his positional play ensured that rarely, if ever, was he exposed. Cambiasso while at Inter was similarly deployed and again, while painfully slow, was one of their stand out players the year they won their historic treble.

The point being that lack of pace doesn't have to mean that you can't triumph in this position, however being slow and continually getting yourself caught too far up the field and away from the shielding role you are primarily deployed to carry out, is a problem.

Capoue's passing range and tackling technique are good and he doesn't dwell on the ball too much, if, and it's a big if at this stage; however, if Poch could get him to become more disciplined defensively, he may just work and become a top defensive midfielder for us. If he cannot improve this part of his game, then I think we need a replacement.

As you say, let's hope we are all saying by seasons end that he has been one of our better players.

My understanding of a double pivot was that the two deep midfielders would take turns going forward (although perhaps one more than the other) and that no one player was primarily a shield?

He has the 8th most passes per game of any player in the league, with a success rate of 88.7. I hope he keeps being involved. Perhaps sometimes our players have to make better decisions on who goes and who stays, but I don't necessarily think Capoue should just play a shielding role.

 

[supie]

My understanding of a double pivot was that the two deep midfielders would take turns going forward (although perhaps one more than the other) and that no one player was primarily a shield?

He has the 8th most passes per game of any player in the league, with a success rate of 88.7. I hope he keeps being involved. Perhaps sometimes our players have to make better decisions on who goes and who stays, but I don't necessarily think Capoue should just play a shielding role.

It is a newish term in the UK but has been commonly used in Europe and South America to describe the midfield 2 in either a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-2. The theory is, as I understand it at least, very much aligned to what you say; however it will always depend on the individual players at the disposal of the coach and the broader tactics of the team.

In our case Poch's desire for the fullbacks to operate, in an attacking sense at least, as wing backs makes it imperative that their is always a defensive shield. In addition when you play teams who deploy a "medio Punta" or "classic number 10" in our language and/or an interchangeable group of dynamic 3 or 4 front players, having at least 1 pivot and more probably both pivots sitting deep and playing it very tight, is I would argue a must.

I think we got this right against Arsenal; however city at home are a different proposition and Silva and Aguero a step up on the Arsenal front players, hence the difficulties Capoue and others were faced with.

I see Schneiderlin as the classic double pivot and along with say Mason being the kind of players who could operate in a highly dynamic double pivot for us; however right now we have a slow defensive pivot who, if we are to be successful, cannot be expected to stray too far away from his defensive duties, otherwise our back 4 will be exposed against the bigger teams, by quality players who operate "between the lines" as opposed to in a static forward position - see City and Liverpool games where Sterling and Aguero tore us apart.

That's my two cents at least.....


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Robspur12]

It is a newish term in the UK but has been commonly used in Europe and South America to describe the midfield 2 in either a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-2. The theory is, as I understand it at least, very much aligned to what you say; however it will always depend on the individual players at the disposal of the coach and the broader tactics of the team.

In our case Poch's desire for the fullbacks to operate, in an attacking sense at least, as wing backs makes it imperative that their is always a defensive shield. In addition when you play teams who deploy a "medio Punta" or "classic number 10" in our language and/or an interchangeable group of dynamic 3 or 4 front players, having at least 1 pivot and more probably both pivots sitting deep and playing it very tight, is I would argue a must.

I think we got this right against Arsenal; however city at home are a different proposition and Silva and Aguero a step up on the Arsenal front players, hence the difficulties Capoue and others were faced with.

I see Schneiderlin as the classic double pivot and along with say Mason being the kind of players who could operate in a highly dynamic double pivot for us; however right now we have a slow defensive pivot who, if we are to be successful, cannot be expected to stray too far away from his defensive duties, otherwise our back 4 will be exposed against the bigger teams, by quality players who operate "between the lines" as opposed to in a static forward position - see City and Liverpool games where Sterling and Aguero tore us apart.

That's my two cents at least.....


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

Great post. Hope we have not given up on getting schneiderlin although I see Arsenal are launching a bid for him.

 

[Robspur12]

My understanding of a double pivot was that the two deep midfielders would take turns going forward (although perhaps one more than the other) and that no one player was primarily a shield?

He has the 8th most passes per game of any player in the league, with a success rate of 88.7. I hope he keeps being involved. Perhaps sometimes our players have to make better decisions on who goes and who stays, but I don't necessarily think Capoue should just play a shielding role.

I don't read too much into passing stats as most of his passing are short, easy ones as opposed to the longer riskier passes that were attempted by say Tom Huddlestone.

 

[Kandi1977]

I don't read too much into passing stats as most of his passing are short, easy ones as opposed to the longer riskier passes that were attempted by say Tom Huddlestone.

That's just completely wrong! His AVERAGE passing distance is 19 m, and with the amount of passes he's made, that means he does a lot of long range passing, and that also something we all see every game.
Of our midfielders, only Paulinho has a longer avg. passing distance (22m) than Capoue.

 

[Kandi1977]

Capoues passing compared to some other relevant players

 

[supie]

Capoues passing compared to some other relevant players
View attachment 2154

Fine stats indeed and clearly a strong facet of his game. If I am not mistaken however it isn't his attacking skills which are being called into question, but rather his speed, or lack of it and; his propensity for getting turned by players operating between the lines, resulting in our defence having people running onto it en masse and Capoue not tracking these runs.

I repeat what I said earlier, think; Alonso, Cambiaso as opposed to the more dynamic pivots operating today. On Cambiaso, I recall when he joined Madrid as Redondo's ready made replacement (and clone which included the exact same haircut!!) he too always struggled when he got caught too high up the pitch and those operating between the lines has space to operate in.

An attack minded double pivot was an expectation at Real and so he soon fell out of favour and eventually joined Inter. In Italy and because their is always a defensive shield, Cambiaso found his vocation and his place and the rest is history as they say....

If Capoue is to truly make it at Spurs I think this is where and how he will have to end up playing. The challenge for Poch will then be around pairing him with a quicker more dynamic player thus ensuring a balanced and effective double pivot. Who that is, and based on how Poch has "tinkered" here more than anywhere, suggests he hasn't made up his mind yet.



Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[harr1984]

Where did my post say that Poch didnt fancy him? I said that the jury is still out on him - he's neither proven or unproven. He's being given his chance to prove himself. You would hope that by the end of the season he will have proved himself and we'll be able to look back at certain games in which he's been MOTM. I think he's been ok/good so far but no better

Yeah,fair enough. Sorry the Poch not fancying him was from the post I originally replied to. I think he's been good, on average so far this season he's been about a 7 out of ten for me...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Armchair Expert]

I don't rate Capoue. I think he's in the team largely by default due to our striving to put together the most disjointed and inappropriate collection of central midfield in previous seasons.

We've emerged with only one player who can create the illusion of being able to pick a pass.

 

[Hemant]

I'd be inclined to agree with you and your original post also. For me the big issue with Capoue is his lack of positional awareness and the fact that when he does get caught out he is too slow to recover.

Alonso for Real Madrid played in a double pivot under Mourinho and was arguably, after CR7, Madrid's stand out player during this period. In terms of pace, arguably Alonso is even slower than Capoue, however his positional play ensured that rarely, if ever, was he exposed. Cambiasso while at Inter was similarly deployed and again, while painfully slow, was one of their stand out players the year they won their historic treble.

The point being that lack of pace doesn't have to mean that you can't triumph in this position, however being slow and continually getting yourself caught too far up the field and away from the shielding role you are primarily deployed to carry out, is a problem.

Capoue's passing range and tackling technique are good and he doesn't dwell on the ball too much, if, and it's a big if at this stage; however, if Poch could get him to become more disciplined defensively, he may just work and become a top defensive midfielder for us. If he cannot improve this part of his game, then I think we need a replacement.

As you say, let's hope we are all saying by seasons end that he has been one of our better players.




Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

Good point.
Also, I think a reason for Capoue getting caught out of position is he plays as if he is the only DM, rather than part of two DMs, his role being to look after the right side and Mason's being to look after the left side. They are often too close as Capoue is too far to the left.
We don't need two DMs, in most cases, just one who knows what they are doing. Also, if Lennon plays RW then this weakness is masked as Dier gets some cover, but Andros and especially Lamela are not as good at tracking.

Play him alone and Eriksen to allow Kane to support one of Ade or Soldado up front. Kane has the intelligence to make the fifth man in midfield when we don't have the ball.

 

[Mumorn]

I don't rate Capoue. I think he's in the team largely by default due to our striving to put together the most disjointed and inappropriate collection of central midfield in previous seasons.

We've emerged with only one player who can create the illusion of being able to pick a pass.

He provides us with exactly what Schneiderlin would have done. Someone who will drop deep to recieve the ball from the centre halves and keep a move going, continuously recycling possession.

To be honest, schneiderlin has looked much better this season released of the shackles Poch had him under.

 

[metalgear]

To be honest, schneiderlin has looked much better this season released of the shackles Poch had him under.

Interesting observation there. He might not want to come to us now that he is realizing his true potential .

 

[Robspur12]

That's just completely wrong! His AVERAGE passing distance is 19 m, and with the amount of passes he's made, that means he does a lot of long range passing, and that also something we all see every game.
Of our midfielders, only Paulinho has a longer avg. passing distance (22m) than Capoue.

I have to say watching him live I am surprised by those stats. However I maintain his passing is not as incisive as huddlestone's were. Seeing as they both are similar in terms of Mobility I am still wondering why we replaced huddlestone for capoue.