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Etienne Capoue

Kingdawson said:
Actually you're completely wrong imo but i'm not surprised you're saying it.

Dembele is far better in a positional sense. People talk about him holding on to the ball too long but it's now becoming evident that it's the least of our concerns.
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But holding on to the ball in that position ruins everything. The key function of that role is to move the ball quickly in the transition phases - between defence and AM.

Dembele dawdling on the ball just gives our opponents time to get back and set themselves, and just suffocates the life out of our play, resulting sooner in later in us losing possession.

For me Mason coming in ahead of Dembele has helped us make a major stride. For the first time since Modric left we are transitioning effectively.



Rorschach said:
Not true. He had a good match against Asteris.
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I'd be confident he caused us to turnover possession more than anyone else in the team (even statuesque first half Ade)
 
VolSpur said:
Capoue offers the odd through ball that Dembele doesn't have the vision for. Dembele's runs just take him into a dead-end.

One of our biggest problems: we lack quality passers of the ball from deep. Dribblers of the ball from midfield aren't as important to our team as someone who can release it early to our more talented forward players.

If we had Modric with the options we have up front now like Soldado, Chadli and Lamela making runs, it would be devastating.
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I dont deny that, my point is that while both Dembele and Capoue are shiit passers, Dembele's positional sense is much better than Capoue's, while he also offers dribbling ability and a sporadic goal threat. He's clearly superior. Neither are Modric-lites, but one is clearly better than the other.

Cardiff and us were in for Capoue. He'd of fitted in there perfectly.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But holding on to the ball in that position ruins everything. The key function of that role is to move the ball quickly in the transition phases - between defence and AM.

Dembele dawdling on the ball just gives our opponents time to get back and set themselves, and just suffocates the life out of our play, resulting sooner in later in us losing possession.

For me Mason coming in ahead of Dembele has helped us make a major stride. For the first time since Modric left we are transitioning effectively.





I'd be confident he caused us to turnover possession more than anyone else in the team (even statuesque first half Ade)
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I respect your opinion GB, but Capoue is a dreadful player. Just because when he is under no pressure and plays a 20 yard pass to the full back he shapes his body like a genuine passer doesn't mean he is. He is an imposter, and as soon as we attempt to move beyond the half way line its hurried passes, miscued balls and lost possession. You can pick a good player, and thus I can't understand your defending him --- he's fuucking shiit unfortunately! 1000 passes vs QPR, 500 1st half vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Going gets tough/ proper opposition and he fuucking evaporates into nothing.
 
Armchair Expert said:
Exactly, Dembele is better than Capoue positionally and in shielding and tackling, and both are poor passers. At least Dembele additionally has the capacity to dribble. Capoue offers nothing.
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I wouldn't mind Dembele being converted into a proper DM. I rate his defensive ability. In fact I think it's the only way he'll salvage an EPL career beyond this season.

But he's got to learn to pass the ball. Keep it simple, keep it quick. Put electrodes on him in training and (moderately) electrocute him every time he takes more than 2 touches
 
Gutter Boy said:
I wouldn't mind Dembele being converted into a proper DM. I rate his defensive ability. In fact I think it's the only way he'll salvage an EPL career beyond this season.

But he's got to learn to pass the ball. Keep it simple, keep it quick. Put electrodes on him in training and (moderately) electrocute him every time he takes more than 2 touches
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Do you think Capoue is better at re-cycling possession? At linking up play?
 
Armchair Expert said:
I respect your opinion GB, but Capoue is a dreadful player. Just because when he is under no pressure and plays a 20 yard pass to the full back he shapes his body like a genuine passer doesn't mean he is. He is an imposter, and as soon as we attempt to move beyond the half way line its hurried passes, miscued balls and lost possession. You can pick a good player, and thus I can't understand your defending him --- he's fuucking shiit unfortunately! 1000 passes vs QPR, 500 1st half vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Going gets tough/ proper opposition and he fuucking evaporates into nothing.
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Don't get me wrong. I'd MUCH rather see Sandro in there instead.

But of the 5 deeper-sitting CMs we have - Mason, Capoue, Stambouli, Bentaleb and Dembele - Capoue is comfortably in the best 2 (with Mason; Stambouli still being an unknown).

As mentioned by someone earlier in the thread, it's a pretty big job we are asking of him. To help us in attack we are abandoning 4-2-3-1, and moving closer to 4-1-4-1. Mason is really helping our attacking play, but we're sacrificing the security of a double pivot. Combined that with our problems at CB and RB and it's a completely thankless task. With a more settled Mason, a returning Walker and perhaps an emerging Fazio, I think he'd look a lot better.
 
Armchair Expert said:
Do you think Capoue is better at re-cycling possession? At linking up play?
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Yes.

I think he's a far better (and more intelligent) passer when he's got time

And when he isn't given time I think he's much more aware of his limitations and at least tries to move the ball on quickly and simply.

Everyone who thinks £26m Schneiderlin is the answer to our prayers needs to go back and watch the two of them head-to-head the other week. Or note that Capoue has double the number of national caps, despite only being a year older.
 
Gutter Boy said:
But holding on to the ball in that position ruins everything. The key function of that role is to move the ball quickly in the transition phases - between defence and AM.

Dembele dawdling on the ball just gives our opponents time to get back and set themselves, and just suffocates the life out of our play, resulting sooner in later in us losing possession.

For me Mason coming in ahead of Dembele has helped us make a major stride. For the first time since Modric left we are transitioning effectively.





I'd be confident he caused us to turnover possession more than anyone else in the team (even statuesque first half Ade)
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It ruins everything? no it ruins everything in your mind because in your world all 11 players would be ball playing fancy foreigners who play lovely one touch passes. Anything else and you're against it.

The reality is you need a bit more than that in this league. Dembele's inclusion in the team makes us more solid, makes us look stronger in a positional sense in the middle and allows us to retain possession longer being that Dembele is able to retain possession through sheer strength. Suffocates the life out of our play? we're still not creating chances against ****e like Saudi Sportswashing Machine without Dembele ffs.
 
Kingdawson said:
It ruins everything? no it ruins everything in your mind because in your world all 11 players would be ball playing fancy foreigners who play lovely one touch passes. Anything else and you're against it.

The reality is you need a bit more than that in this league. Dembele's inclusion in the team makes us more solid, makes us look stronger in a positional sense in the middle and allows us to retain possession longer being that Dembele is able to retain possession through sheer strength. Suffocates the life out of our play? we're still not creating chances against ****e like Saudi Sportswashing Machine without Dembele ffs.
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Aren't I arguing that Mason keep his place in the team over Dembele?

I'm all for a balance incorporating strength and power. I loved Sandro and Dawson. But a ballplaying CM not being able to play the ball is a major issue. No one can surely criticise our strikers for not scoring, Chiriches for not being able to defend, and then defend Dembele as a midfielder?

I would say our big problem against Saudi Sportswashing Machine was bringing statuesque Ade back in when the AMs had gelled so well with Soldado the previous week.
 
Funny that people who thought Sandro was limited was ok with Capoue .. to me, Sandro at his best is so much better a player.

I'm not a Dembele fan, think he is the ultimate no end product player (great at shielding ball, gets lots of possession, but does **** all with it)

Anyone brave enough to go for a Mason/Bentaleb pairing?
 
Raziel said:
Funny that people who thought Sandro was limited was ok with Capoue .. to me, Sandro at his best is so much better a player.

I'm not a Dembele fan, think he is the ultimate no end product player (great at shielding ball, gets lots of possession, but does **** all with it)

Anyone brave enough to go for a Mason/Bentaleb pairing?
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Yeah - I always did/do prefer Sandro

Mason-Bentaleb would be suicide IMO. Part of our fragility at the moment is moving from two DMs to one to utilise Mason; having no DMs would leave us as wide open as the worst days of Timmeh. It has got to be one or the other, alongside one of Capoue or Stambouli

I like Bentaleb, but he's also been poor every time he's played this season. Secondseasonitus perhaps.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Aren't I arguing that Mason keep his place in the team over Dembele?

I'm all for a balance incorporating strength and power. I loved Sandro and Dawson. But a ballplaying CM not being able to play the ball is a major issue. No one can surely criticise our strikers for not scoring, Chiriches for not being able to defend, and then defend Dembele as a midfielder?

I would say our big problem against Saudi Sportswashing Machine was bringing statuesque Ade back in when the AMs had gelled so well with Soldado the previous week.
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Ade scored. We created hardly any chances and i don't think it had much to do with the striker.

Of course you can defend Dembele and criticise Chiriches for not defending. I don't even get what your point is tbh. Dembele does his job (generally) when asked to protect the back four and that can not be argued. He doesn't leave big ass gaps in the middle like our current DM is doing which leaves us exposed.

Now let's talk about Mason. From what i see he is clearly an AMC...clearly.
 
btw in AVB's first season here we looked absolutely unbeatable when Dembele partnered Sandro. That partnership was very very effective.
 
We should have kept Livermore.

He's disciplined unlike Sandro. He got the ball and gave it quickly unlike Dembele.

I think if this is a season of transition then play the kid Bentaleb at every opportunity. Build something for the future.
 
Kingdawson said:
It ruins everything? no it ruins everything in your mind because in your world all 11 players would be ball playing fancy foreigners who play lovely one touch passes. Anything else and you're against it.

The reality is you need a bit more than that in this league. Dembele's inclusion in the team makes us more solid, makes us look stronger in a positional sense in the middle and allows us to retain possession longer being that Dembele is able to retain possession through sheer strength. Suffocates the life out of our play? we're still not creating chances against ****e like Saudi Sportswashing Machine without Dembele ffs.
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I really don't think GB is alone in wanting all of our players to be good on the ball and effective passers.

I actually think Poch wants to move us in that direction too. Selling Daws and Sandro, bringing in Fazio, Dier, Ben Davies. Bentaleb or Mason starting most of the league games. Looks a lot like a move in that direction to me.

Raziel said:
Funny that people who thought Sandro was limited was ok with Capoue .. to me, Sandro at his best is so much better a player.

I'm not a Dembele fan, think he is the ultimate no end product player (great at shielding ball, gets lots of possession, but does **** all with it)

Anyone brave enough to go for a Mason/Bentaleb pairing?
Click to expand...

Sandro at his best was a better player than Capoue, but I do think he was limited and not as good on the ball as Capoue is.

I wouldn't mind Mason and Bentaleb being tested in a league cup or EL game (assuming qualification has been secured). Not sure they're ready for a PL start. That being said I do think Bentaleb would have come on for Capoue yesterday had he been fit and available. In my eyes Poch clearly wanted more passing ability in the team to try to up our tempo and that was why Dembele was kept on the bench and Eriksen moved deeper as our only real option for that.

Kingdawson said:
btw in AVB's first season here we looked absolutely unbeatable when Dembele partnered Sandro. That partnership was very very effective.
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We looked unbeatable, we also relied very heavily on a superstar to score wonder goals to win actually win games. I see no reason to think that a Dembele/Sandro partnership (or similar) would work well with the current squad of players. We need more creativity from the deep two in midfield imo.
 
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