• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

ENIC

DubSpur said:
That's the highest ticket price, there are other options as well. The price shown for us is for the 1882 season ticket. It's a premium offering above what most clubs will offer. As usual you need to dig a little deeper but then again if you did that it wouldn't give the anti-Spurs twist.
Click to expand...
Many of the clubs have that sort of offering now as a non 'corporate' ticket so like is being compared with like. Note also that Arsenal fans get their first 7 cup games included in their season ticket price (in any competition) so while we're paying £80 a game on top of our ST cost to watch Spurs in the CL group games, Arsenal ST holders typically get to see the equivalent for free when they qualify for that competition.
 
metalgear said:
This i suspect is Enic's profit maximisation strategy:
- ride on the drama and hope of qualifying for top four and participating in the champions league
- hence invest sufficiently at the right times - especially when outside of top four
- do not invest to win things - its too risky
- don't settle for a consistent system of play to add drama, PR and fan engagement on social media
- invest in other business - property and entertainment - plough profits back (not to football) to grow club assets which also grows owner equity grows

Its an excellent business strategy for anyone else taking over a football club. Might be a great case study for business school too on leveraging on untapped value of non-traditional businesses.
Click to expand...
Where does the money come from to invest to win things
 
metalgear said:
SeasonTickets_Tables2.png
Click to expand...
As I said above, note that Arsenal's ST includes their first 7 Cup games. We get none. Including the AC Milan ticket, I think so far this season I've spent about £340 extra on 5 home Cup games.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Many of the clubs have that sort of offering now as a non 'corporate' ticket so like is being compared with like. Note also that Arsenal fans get their first 7 cup games included in their season ticket price (in any competition) so while we're paying £80 a game on top of our ST cost to watch Spurs in the CL group games, Arsenal ST holders typically get to see the equivalent for free when they qualify for that competition.
Click to expand...
My seat at arsenals ground is about £100 more but does include the first 7 cup games as you says, but not the league cup weirdly
 
Finney Is Back said:
Many of the clubs have that sort of offering now as a non 'corporate' ticket so like is being compared with like. Note also that Arsenal fans get their first 7 cup games included in their season ticket price (in any competition) so while we're paying £80 a game on top of our ST cost to watch Spurs in the CL group games, Arsenal ST holders typically get to see the equivalent for free when they qualify for that competition.
Click to expand...

Didn’t we used to get the first two cup games free? From memory, the club put a stop to that once we started getting top 4.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
My seat at arsenals ground is about £100 more but does include the first 7 cup games as you says, but not the league cup weirdly
Click to expand...
I think they altered that because they often put out very young teams in that competition. I think I remember them saying that instead of giving that ticket free to ST holders and then having a bunch of ST holders simply not show up they would instead offer tickets for those games at very low prices.
 
Raziel said:
How about, try to build a club/brand via good business (not committing to a never ending loss), actually get close to success (when they bought us Europe wasn't even a thought far less some grand plan to "ride on CL drama"), along the way get roosterblocked by the government at every opportunity (constant delays in planning permissions while giving West Ham and City free stadiums) and watch the league allow Chelsea, City and Saudi Sportswashing Machine make the league completely broken while still having the traditional economic powerhouses of United and Pool to compete with.

To measure ENIC, the only objective view is "who has done better" in the same time period
United, Pool, Arsenal were the original benefactors of PL & CL money and already leagues ahead when ENIC bought in
- Arsenal regardless of their possible success this season are a shadow of the Wenger era, failed to capitalize on their stadium and have been worse than us for lets say 6 out of last 7 years
- United, 2nd biggest club in the world, complete misery decade, shadow of the SAF era side, look to be on the up after wasting billions, still unlikely to win anything regularly in short term
- Pool, went into a bad run, got it sorted under Klopp (with a little luck, debt being wiped with owner change, capitalizing on Coutinho sale), probably the success story of non-cheaters, owners looking to leave now
- Notable mention here for Leeds as they were part of the top sides at initial ENIC buy in (we know how that went)
Cheaters
Chelsea & City have dominated the English game in two very different ways
- Chelsea just threw money at it, chopped and changed the minute momentum faltered, constant buying the way out of bad decisions (managers or players)
- City, much more measured approach and much more successful ultimately
- Saudi Sportswashing Machine, just joined the party, but their sheer available funds and the history of the other two show the likely outcome (they were also above us for a bit in the early ENIC years, didn't capitalize)
Investors
- Everton, >£500M in, nothing more needs to be said (this was a club that had spent a decade plus above us?)
- Leicester, investments in beyond their income, brief burst of success (really only success story of this group), have faded back to mean
- West Ham, Villa (was one we were competing with), Wolves, all some version of the same brick story, spending, a brief season or two of best of rest, back to mean

Again, I struggle to find any one that has done better, laying a success for future competitiveness that isn't just unlimited money model.

My summary, ENIC has actually done very well leveraging a sustainable model, problem is, that model doesn't work, probably can't work and no one has shown it otherwise. So if we want to compete with any regularity, we do need to change owners but I put that on the league, not ENIC and we will likely have to accept the type of owners with be unpalatable morally/ethically, and with 3 cheaters and 2nd biggest club in the world already in the mix, it's still going to be hard.
Click to expand...

This is an interesting viewpoint in that we have to ‘cheat’ in order to constantly compete and occasionally win the biggest honours.

With the state of the football world these days I’m inclined to agree.

Although we have no say on what happens investment ownership wise it seems the two options for the next 20 years are:

1. Continue as we are and have occasional highs and lows finishing between 3rd and 7th, the odd semi final, probably a league cup win and maybe even an fa cup win.

2. ‘cheat’ and finish between 1st and 6th, so one league title maybe more if we cheat well, a few domestic cups won, a europa league win perhaps too and maybe with some luck a CL win.

Has to be the latter really.
 
billyiddo said:
Or, you know, we're in the middle of a squad rebuild and that needs resolving before we can talk about title challenges and whether the board are prepared/able to do what is required.

All ifs and buts, but if Pochettinos team was peaking when we started to see the money coming in from the stadium then do you really think we wouldn't have been investing in the 1-2 top players required to keep things competitive and fresh? Trouble is we are far away from that point wrt the team so have always been needing to spread the money further.

We have spent 150/160 net in the last couple of windows (summer + kulu & Bentancur) if we're spending that when we have a stronger team then we're certainly going to be giving managers a platform to succeed.
Click to expand...

Seems like we are forever building which is not a bad thing in the slightest but the managers picked for the job have been left with much to consider.

Let's be honest we got lucky with pochettino. The strict income to spend ratio is very strict and doesn't allow us to push the boat out when on occasion we looked very good on securing a trophy.

The model does not work its as simple as that as the massive lack of trophies shows.

Our ambitions are not to win any silverware but to make do with what we have. Yes we have invested of late but still seem to take a century in identifying players that actually will improve the team in key areas, usually settling for the cheaper option.

I get that we will not spunk money like city, Chelsea, united etc ... but where there is massive investment and correct recruitment it gives a real chance to actually compete.

We have no conviction in the market.

I'm just getting realistic and we can dress it up however we like but the lack of trophies surely merits a conversion about our failings under Enic.

To me anyway, it seems we are just fattening ourselves up for a sell off benefiting Enic, Joe and levy while we as supporters are taken down the river.

I don't have my blinkers on and wonder why on earth we got the last three managers in. We need a massive clear out and even bigger recruitment drive. Conte is dithering and it permeates in the team. Which players do we have that actually have it in them to play no matter who is in charge? It looks like they have downed tools as "he won't be here next year anyway"
 
Gazza said:
To me anyway, it seems we are just fattening ourselves up for a sell off benefiting Enic, Joe and levy while we as supporters are taken down the river.

I don't have my blinkers on and wonder why on earth we got the last three managers in. We need a massive clear out and even bigger recruitment drive. Conte is dithering and it permeates in the team. Which players do we have that actually have it in them to play no matter who is in charge? It looks like they have downed tools as "he won't be here next year anyway"
Click to expand...

If the main plan was to sell, ENIC would have done it years ago. They obviously have a strategy of return on investment via valuation vs. dividend pull out.

I mentioned it earlier, the Jose and Conte appointments are looking more and more like Kane appeasement strategies, club broke it's longer term strategy to move to a win now in some mix of win now, take advantage of Kane/Son in their prime, plus desperately trying to hold on to Kane.
 
Raziel said:
If the main plan was to sell, ENIC would have done it years ago. They obviously have a strategy of return on investment via valuation vs. dividend pull out.

I mentioned it earlier, the Jose and Conte appointments are looking more and more like Kane appeasement strategies, club broke it's longer term strategy to move to a win now in some mix of win now, take advantage of Kane/Son in their prime, plus desperately trying to hold on to Kane.
Click to expand...
Why would they have sold years ago? Why would any investor sell an asset that was appreciating in value at a decent pace?
 
Raziel said:
If the main plan was to sell, ENIC would have done it years ago. They obviously have a strategy of return on investment via valuation vs. dividend pull out.

I mentioned it earlier, the Jose and Conte appointments are looking more and more like Kane appeasement strategies, club broke it's longer term strategy to move to a win now in some mix of win now, take advantage of Kane/Son in their prime, plus desperately trying to hold on to Kane.
Click to expand...

More like to appease the fans, if they wanted to appease kane they would have sold him or actualy built a great team that fulfil his ambition
 
metalgear said:
the now manager needs now players. he claims he doesn't have them and will take 3 years to get them lined up.
then its about money... for I am sure if asked which ducks now, he would tell you
we have not spent the 150m cash injection and what about the regular annual transfer budget - if it exists?

i thought our transfer budget would increase significantly since we've got a bigger stadium and higher ticket prices:
FmiTVE_WAAEOy1G


i'd be outraged if i were a season ticket holder paying highest prices to watch a better than average team.
Click to expand...
Look at cheeky old Fulham!

I digress, The most expensive ST seat is a poor metric. Is that the 1882 price or west or east stand with access to the loges?

Take an average of the most typical/common seats and then get back to me.;)
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Look at cheeky old Fulham!

I digress, The most expensive ST seat is a poor metric. Is that the 1882 price or west or east stand with access to the loges?

Take an average of the most typical/common seats and then get back to me.;)
Click to expand...
Do you think that's going to make any difference? [emoji1787]

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
 
Finney Is Back said:
Why would they have sold years ago? Why would any investor sell an asset that was appreciating in value at a decent pace?
Click to expand...

We have had this discussion before

My point, if the plan was to maximize the walkout, the extent of the stadium build made no sense, they could have cut the cost by an easy 25%/40% without a similar loss in the end price (see what Chelsea got with a stadium still to build)

I can be on board with many criticisms of Levy/ENIC, failing to understand the value/return of investments in the club infrastructure can't be one.
 
If ENIC could sell 25% of the club for say £1b
They could take the £200m they have invested and plow £800m back into the club over the next 3/4 years making the club more valuable by being successful, and therefore arguably ending up with the same value of asset for their lower percentage with no money in the club

That’s what I’d do, but I’m a fan of course
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back