ENIC

[DubaiSpur]

Primarily it's a personal question. Who are you? What kind of person you are?
Secondly it's about your relationship with the club. D'you want your club to sell it's soul, prostitute itself to the top? Fast track my emotional needs being met. Then feel a bit hollow? It might be 'if you can't beat them join them' BUT there's no going back if you do.

Personally I'd never ever want it. Life ain't easy but I still believe you can win things with a 'normal' model.

This needs a long response. Re: Arsenal, United and Liverpool, I think it's telling that only the three largest clubs in England can compete in this manner, and that's with Arse providing 400m-odd of owner financing to Arteta and Edu over the past few years - hardly sustainable, as you say. That in itself is an indication of the arms race the Prem has become - and while these three clubs can 'compete', City have won, what, 4 of the last 5 titles, and how many of the last few CCs? It's only the Prem's marketing that keeps it from looking like a one-team league at this point.

On the backing of managers being the difference, agreed. They are to my mind the biggest difference makers now that every team in the league has players at a high level. It's why I still feel bitter that we ended our journey with Poch like we did - that story had longer to go, new cycles to build and I hope it resumes at some point.

On the kind of person I am and my relationship with the club, it's weird that they are polar opposites. In life, my hobbies tend to center on meditation and self-reflection - hiking, travelling, running. And I've gotten a lot better at recognizing that life is hard and it's nice to help others get through it, having needed help myself to get through some hard times.

But the person I am now is not the kid I was when I started following Spurs 20-odd years ago. And that scrawny, impulsive kid yearning for glory still drives my emotional impulses on Tottenham today, in a way that almost nothing else does. I cling to that because of my fear that if I lost it, nothing would keep me connected to this club anymore, since I have grown to largely dislike the increasingly corrupt and hypocritical game outside of Spurs.

The thing that keeps me from going all in on Qatar as a route to fulfilling my dreams of better days is the worry that doing so just brings the blood-stained hypocrisy of the wider game into Spurs, and I am unsure how I would deal with that. Hence I'm conflicted. But otherwise, the happiness I had as a kid, running barefoot down sandy streets in 2008 as we won the CC...I'd like to see that again before I die. Reaching the CL final came close, as I left work and strolled home down rainy streets singing at the top of my voice to the amusement of passers by - but otherwise, nothing under the 20 long years of ENIC has quite compared to that day, and the thing that saddens me is that it's getting less likely by the day that we ever experience that collective joy again. As someone once put it, we're football's eternal bridesmaids - always in the background of the game's great moments, slumping to our knees in despair as the happiness goes to someone else.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This needs a long response. Re: Arsenal, United and Liverpool, I think it's telling that only the three largest clubs in England can compete in this manner, and that's with Arse providing 400m-odd of owner financing to Arteta and Edu over the past few years - hardly sustainable, as you say. That in itself is an indication of the arms race the Prem has become - and while these three clubs can 'compete', City have won, what, 4 of the last 5 titles, and how many of the last few CCs? It's only the Prem's marketing that keeps it from looking like a one-team league at this point.

On the backing of managers being the difference, agreed. They are to my mind the biggest difference makers now that every team in the league has players at a high level. It's why I still feel bitter that we ended our journey with Poch like we did - that story had longer to go, new cycles to build and I hope it resumes at some point.

On the kind of person I am and my relationship with the club, it's weird that they are polar opposites. In life, my hobbies tend to center on meditation and self-reflection - hiking, travelling, running. And I've gotten a lot better at recognizing that life is hard and it's nice to help others get through it, having needed help myself to get through some hard times.

But the person I am now is not the kid I was when I started following Spurs 20-odd years ago. And that scrawny, impulsive kid yearning for glory still drives my emotional impulses on Tottenham today, in a way that almost nothing else does. I cling to that because of my fear that if I lost it, nothing would keep me connected to this club anymore, since I have grown to largely dislike the increasingly corrupt and hypocritical game outside of Spurs.

The thing that keeps me from going all in on Qatar as a route to fulfilling my dreams of better days is the worry that doing so just brings the blood-stained hypocrisy of the wider game into Spurs, and I am unsure how I would deal with that. Hence I'm conflicted. But otherwise, the happiness I had as a kid, running barefoot down sandy streets in 2008 as we won the CC...I'd like to see that again before I die. Reaching the CL final came close, as I left work and strolled home down rainy streets singing at the top of my voice to the amusement of passers by - but otherwise, nothing under the 20 long years of ENIC has quite compared to that day, and the thing that saddens me is that it's getting less likely by the day that we ever experience that collective joy again. As someone once put it, we're football's eternal bridesmaids - always in the background of the game's great moments, slumping to our knees in despair as the happiness goes to someone else.

It is a 1 team league
Will soon be 2 with Newcastles money
I remember when fergie said united would never be over taken by city … yet now any player in the world would choose city over united given the choice
Money has changed the landscape of the league for ever

 

[Gutter Boy]

It is a 1 team league
Will soon be 2 with Newcastles money
I remember when fergie said united would never be over taken by city … yet now any player in the world would choose city over united given the choice
Money has changed the landscape of the league for ever

They'll fall back down, especially post-oil. In time City and Chelsea will be just Blackburn and West Ham levels again.

 

[Diamond Lights]

This is a question not a dig because I am genuinely intrigued

Reading your posts on non football related you have pretty strong moral views and strong views in general, why would that not extend into football for you personally?

fair question Grays tbh. i think it stems to my main point that if it isn't us, it will just be someone else. Saudi Arabia own a team in our league having already passed the 'Fit n Proper' test. We can sit here and cry "it shouldn't be this way" but it is, that's the harsh truth of it all. We pay the most for our season tickets, we're owned by an investment vehicle. They don't own Tottenham for the benefit of their fans. No clubs do. they're businesses at the end of the day and it would be foolish to think they give two bricks what we think in the most part, most clubs will do what they can to maximise profit and revenue for themselves.

Not sure if that totally makes sense or i'm not getting my point across adequately. But ultimately the horse has bolted long ago, so either we sit here and pretend our morals count for something, or we realise the truth of it all. i just need to make sure i live my life by what i see is right and wrong. But if i sit here saying "we shouldn't be owned by QSI" won't change the fact that QSI will just invest elsewhere.

"You thought we could be decent men in an indecent time. But you were wrong. The world is cruel. And the only morality in a cruel world... is chance. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair." - Harvey 'Two Face' Dent - The Dark Knight.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They'll fall back down, especially post-oil. In time City and Chelsea will be just Blackburn and West Ham levels again.

Absolute dribble
These counties have backed their futures by investing in property
People are really really naive if they don’t know how much they have spread and diversified their wealth to future proof their money
We as a country will be filling their coffers for the rest of our lives

 

[Bedfordspurs]

fair question Grays tbh. i think it stems to my main point that if it isn't us, it will just be someone else. Saudi Arabia own a team in our league having already passed the 'Fit n Proper' test. We can sit here and cry "it shouldn't be this way" but it is, that's the harsh truth of it all. We pay the most for our season tickets, we're owned by an investment vehicle. They don't own Tottenham for the benefit of their fans. No clubs do. they're businesses at the end of the day and it would be foolish to think they give two bricks what we think in the most part, most clubs will do what they can to maximise profit and revenue for themselves.

Not sure if that totally makes sense or i'm not getting my point across adequately. But ultimately the horse has bolted long ago, so either we sit here and pretend our morals count for something, or we realise the truth of it all. i just need to make sure i live my life by what i see is right and wrong. But if i sit here saying "we shouldn't be owned by QSI" won't change the fact that QSI will just invest elsewhere.

"You thought we could be decent men in an indecent time. But you were wrong. The world is cruel. And the only morality in a cruel world... is chance. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair." - Harvey 'Two Face' Dent - The Dark Knight.

If not us then why them…
I know some weird arsenal fans who have hit the spurs twitter timeline saying we would be endorsing all that is wrong with the world. But that’s because they are scared that it may (I doubt it) happen

 

[Grays_1890]

fair question Grays tbh. i think it stems to my main point that if it isn't us, it will just be someone else. Saudi Arabia own a team in our league having already passed the 'Fit n Proper' test. We can sit here and cry "it shouldn't be this way" but it is, that's the harsh truth of it all. We pay the most for our season tickets, we're owned by an investment vehicle. They don't own Tottenham for the benefit of their fans. No clubs do. they're businesses at the end of the day and it would be foolish to think they give two bricks what we think in the most part, most clubs will do what they can to maximise profit and revenue for themselves.

Not sure if that totally makes sense or i'm not getting my point across adequately. But ultimately the horse has bolted long ago, so either we sit here and pretend our morals count for something, or we realise the truth of it all. i just need to make sure i live my life by what i see is right and wrong. But if i sit here saying "we shouldn't be owned by QSI" won't change the fact that QSI will just invest elsewhere.

"You thought we could be decent men in an indecent time. But you were wrong. The world is cruel. And the only morality in a cruel world... is chance. Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair." - Harvey 'Two Face' Dent - The Dark Knight.

Fair play and thanks for the response, I totally get where you are coming from 100%

 

[Kandi1977]

Being unaccepting of other nations intolerance is not a bad thing. This isn't just a business from Qatar, it's the Qatari governments (Royal family ?) investment group themselves so directly linked to the people who choose to persecute minority groups.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You've lost your morals because of something that happened to someone else...that's quite sad.

I haven’t lost anything. I’m sure if they don’t buy us they will buy another premier league club. Might as well be us so we can benefit from it. Would be nice if the premier league didn’t allow certain entities to have control of English clubs but that’s not the world we live in.

 

[Lilbaz]

Well redcafe thinks the qataris meeting levy is a ploy to get the price down for utd.

 

[Baleforce]

Well redcafe thinks the qataris meeting levy is a ploy to get the price down for utd.

Yep, they are obviously the budget option.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

This needs a long response. Re: Arsenal, United and Liverpool, I think it's telling that only the three largest clubs in England can compete in this manner, and that's with Arse providing 400m-odd of owner financing to Arteta and Edu over the past few years - hardly sustainable, as you say. That in itself is an indication of the arms race the Prem has become - and while these three clubs can 'compete', City have won, what, 4 of the last 5 titles, and how many of the last few CCs? It's only the Prem's marketing that keeps it from looking like a one-team league at this point.

On the backing of managers being the difference, agreed. They are to my mind the biggest difference makers now that every team in the league has players at a high level. It's why I still feel bitter that we ended our journey with Poch like we did - that story had longer to go, new cycles to build and I hope it resumes at some point.

On the kind of person I am and my relationship with the club, it's weird that they are polar opposites. In life, my hobbies tend to center on meditation and self-reflection - hiking, travelling, running. And I've gotten a lot better at recognizing that life is hard and it's nice to help others get through it, having needed help myself to get through some hard times.

But the person I am now is not the kid I was when I started following Spurs 20-odd years ago. And that scrawny, impulsive kid yearning for glory still drives my emotional impulses on Tottenham today, in a way that almost nothing else does. I cling to that because of my fear that if I lost it, nothing would keep me connected to this club anymore, since I have grown to largely dislike the increasingly corrupt and hypocritical game outside of Spurs.

The thing that keeps me from going all in on Qatar as a route to fulfilling my dreams of better days is the worry that doing so just brings the blood-stained hypocrisy of the wider game into Spurs, and I am unsure how I would deal with that. Hence I'm conflicted. But otherwise, the happiness I had as a kid, running barefoot down sandy streets in 2008 as we won the CC...I'd like to see that again before I die. Reaching the CL final came close, as I left work and strolled home down rainy streets singing at the top of my voice to the amusement of passers by - but otherwise, nothing under the 20 long years of ENIC has quite compared to that day, and the thing that saddens me is that it's getting less likely by the day that we ever experience that collective joy again. As someone once put it, we're football's eternal bridesmaids - always in the background of the game's great moments, slumping to our knees in despair as the happiness goes to someone else.

A brilliant post @DubaiSpur.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Well redcafe thinks the qataris meeting levy is a ploy to get the price down for utd.

Interesting
so the United fans think they would want to own two clubs

 

[Bishop]

Feels like you are reaching a bit on this one

- One reporter broke the news, the usual club reporters got the shut down answer, original reporter doubled down with some facts, other reporters have basically collaborated the story now (as well as discovering QSI isn't the only party interested) from outside the club.
- Yes, it's distracting and has actually had people reconsider ENIC from a moral/ethical point of view but it's really too conspiracy theory, bit of a reach to believe the club manufactured this, cut their own reporters out, leaked some evidence of a Levy meeting to a reporter based with US media just to distract fans.
- If the club was so worried about fans, they could have trigged Porro's release clause on day 1 of window.

The club will have zero concerns about the reaction
- Have you seen Chelsea fans still singing RA's name after "finding out" about him? (this week they were chanting his name)
- Do you ever here a City fan complain?
- Did you see Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans dressed up as Saudi's?

If Levy came out tomorrow and said QSI had acquired 20% of the club and that £1B would be going into player acquisitions as part of that investment, then follow that up by a new record purchase (lets say Gvardiol) and an extension to Conte's contract, 95% of fans would be cheering, and we would get enough plastics to cover any who's conscience guided them differently. People don't fudging care mate, it's all about them, I don't want to take banter from my mates, so I don't care who we align with as long as I'm in a position to boast ..

I do find it interesting that this would be your breaking point and not the merit less European Super League. I guess everyone has different breaking points. I can't lie I'm still a wee bit negative towards the club as far as their planned involvement on the ESL goes.

With a rich backer I don't really care who they are or where they come from. I find the very idea of a person hoarding billions whilst millions starve rather odious. Accepting that I have no real ability to change reality, which super rich morally dubious person owns us is kind of irrelevant to me. I get that for some Qatar are a bogeyman but I can't lie I do feel there's a degree of xenophobia, islamaphobia and cultural superiority underneath it all. I know many won't agree but it's there within our society football reactions are no different. But it is perspective of course all of our little biases colour how we see things.

Regarding outside wealth I've never respected the way Chelsea achieved their success nor Emirates Marketing Project. I don't think it's wrong and excess outside money has always been a factor in British football. Liverpool had the Littlewoods money, Blackburn steel money etc etc. I have never respected City's success, it's not difficult to achieve what they have when your resources so massively dwarf your rivals. But it is what it is. Sadly football is never going back to the single Champions League place, the FA Cup is never going to be the predominant cup again and money is always going to be the dominant factor in success.

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[Bishop]

Unfortunately we are hypocrites in one way or another.

A few fans will have doubts, but that will quickly fade with any success and I actually think the long term fans will be the worse with the self justification (see City/Saudi Sportswashing Machine), i.e. I was here when we were brick, so I deserve this or my hands are somehow clean.

The game is broken, and English fans (sorry) are fudging idiots, the ESL play was some of the biggest clubs in Europe basically saying we need to find a way to manage this or we are all fudged, and the response when the corrupt FA/UEFA/BT/Sky asshats started the "we are the moral high ground and protecting the grassroots game" was everyone bought it hook, line and sinker.

There's a very easy way to manage the costs; stop paying the players so much. They won't do that so no sorry the ESL is not a way to manage the costs. It was a way to lock in their own future revenues independent of actually performing on the pitch.

A simply trash and elitest idea and I'm glad it has failed.

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[billyiddo]

I do find it interesting that this would be your breaking point and not the merit less European Super League. I guess everyone has different breaking points. I can't lie I'm still a wee bit negative towards the club as far as their planned involvement on the ESL goes.

With a rich backer I don't really care who they are or where they come from. I find the very idea of a person hoarding billions whilst millions starve rather odious. Accepting that I have no real ability to change reality, which super rich morally dubious person owns us is kind of irrelevant to me. I get that for some Qatar are a bogeyman but I can't lie I do feel there's a degree of xenophobia, islamaphobia and cultural superiority underneath it all. I know many won't agree but it's there within our society football reactions are no different. But it is perspective of course all of our little biases colour how we see things.

Regarding outside wealth I've never respected the way Chelsea achieved their success nor Emirates Marketing Project. I don't think it's wrong and excess outside money has always been a factor in British football. Liverpool had the Littlewoods money, Blackburn steel money etc etc. I have never respected City's success, it's not difficult to achieve what they have when your resources so massively dwarf your rivals. But it is what it is. Sadly football is never going back to the single Champions League place, the FA Cup is never going to be the predominant cup again and money is always going to be the dominant factor in success.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

If it wasn't the Qatari governents investment arm that were making the approach to invest and just a consortium made up of a group of businessmen from the middle east then you would have a point wrt to the xenophobia/cultural angle, but as it is it's literally the regime responsible for the persecution of minority groups and all the other stuff that a country like Qatar gets thrown at them that are looking to invest - taking it to the extreme but it would be like the difference in not wanting the National Socialist Party of Germany involved with the club rather than Bayer or Allianz

 

[Bishop]

I would also be cautious to get into bed with people whose plan, if to be believed on here, is to pull their money out of another team and pump into someone new, hardly bodes well if they came in and then got bored

But that's exactly what ENIC did when they bought us. They previously owned Slavia Prague and Vinceza and had minority ownership of Rangers and AEK. They then pulled their money out when a more potentially prosperous opportunity (Spurs) came about. If it's an issue now, was it an issue for you before?

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[billyiddo]

I don't think that's an issue - like City they probably just want to spread their influence far and wide with many clubs across the world to aid their sportswashing M.O - short of there being an ESL uturn the PL is the next best thing.

 

[Grays_1890]

If it wasn't the Qatari governents investment arm that were making the approach to invest and just a consortium made up of a group of businessmen from the middle east then you would have a point wrt to the xenophobia/cultural angle, but as it is it's literally the regime responsible for the persecution of minority groups and all the other stuff that a country like Qatar gets thrown at them that are looking to invest - taking it to the extreme but it would be like the difference in not wanting the National Socialist Party of Germany involved with the club rather than Bayer or Allianz

Exactly this, nothing to do with superiority I would be as upset if not worse if the Tories decided to buy the club

 

[AjaxDeSuperYids]

The Telegraph are reporting this would be £1bn for a 25% stake using new shares so the money goes to the club for investing in either clearing the debt or player recruitment.