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Emmanuel Adebayor - Officially gone \o/

milo said:
I really don't buy the he plays for a contract argument. I just think that he is a streaky player and if he wasn't he would be playing for a bigger club than us.

We were discussing Ade's wages a couple of days ago, this article in the Standard puts his current salary at between £80-90k a week.
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That wasn't quite my argument. I'm more of the opinion that he's greedy and lazy - far more so than your average Premier League footballer.

Somewhere around the Rooney level of greed with less ability and less motivation.
 
scaramanga said:
That wasn't quite my argument. I'm more of the opinion that he's greedy and lazy - far more so than your average Premier League footballer.

Somewhere around the Rooney level of greed with less ability and less motivation.
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There are worse players in the league on more money than him. I don't think that he is lazy either, he works hard for the team. I do think though that his languid running style and his habit of smiling when something doesn't come off can give the impression of him not giving a ****.
 
milo said:
There are worse players in the league on more money than him. I don't think that he is lazy either, he works hard for the team. I do think though that his languid running style and his habit of smiling when something doesn't come off can give the impression of him not giving a ****.
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You see, this is why I believe people are making excuses.

There's no such thing as a languid running style. Someone running as fast as they can moves their legs quickly. Just because Ade can cover more ground in a stride than Lennon, it doesn't excuse him from having to run flat out.

As for laughing all the time - I guess neither of us will ever know, but my firm belief is that he doesn't give a ****.
 
Scara how do we know if he is running flat out or not? Everybody can't move their legs as fast as Lennon can otherwise taller would = faster.
 
jurgen lineker said:
Depends I guess on whether they actually were key contributions or not, the mere simple pass in the lead-up to a goal seems to qualify as a key involvement on the spurs site, which for me is rather weak. Although, just to note, I agree with you that the Southampton goal can be argued as a key contribution as it was that driving run that instigated the entire move, and whilst it did not create the opportunity itself, it did play a key part in the lead up.

But getting back to your point, it’s like I was saying before, stats can be misleading, simply having 7 key contributions would again imo not prove much, especially if we are counting a simple pass in the build-up to a goal as a key contribution. For me you cannot trump evaluating a player by watching games live yourself and then coming to a conclusion that way. And at the moment, for me, Adebayor is playing below par, he does not look a goal threat, he is not holding the ball up to the level we know he is capable of and he is also not involved enough in the build-up. No amount of stats or heat maps are going to or should persuade me or anyone else otherwise, we have all watched football long enough now to be able take in all the variables and make our own minds up on whether someone is playing well or not.

If Ade was playing well and all these key contributions were actually key, these discussions would not be happening, but he isn’t and imo on the whole they haven’t been, so they are. If he does eventually start playing well, talk of ‘key contributions’ and positioning will vanish and we’ll be talking of more significant contributions such as goals, assists and a high-level of hold-up and general link-up play.
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Although I acknowledge he ain't on the best of his form and watching a match is a better indication of contributions than statistics

Im puzzled as to why so many people are having a problem with the assist of the asssister being a key contribution... I am of the opinion that it was pretty well established statistic in football circles?
 
jurgen lineker said:
If Ade was playing well and all these key contributions were actually key, these discussions would not be happening, but he isn’t and imo on the whole they haven’t been, so they are. If he does eventually start playing well, talk of ‘key contributions’ and positioning will vanish and we’ll be talking of more significant contributions such as goals, assists and a high-level of hold-up and general link-up play.
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=D>

Solid gold mate
 
DTA said:
Scara how do we know if he is running flat out or not? Everybody can't move their legs as fast as Lennon can otherwise taller would = faster.
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I've seen him run much faster. When he's motivated he runs properly. Currently he jogs.
 
NaijaSpurs said:
But you have no evidence to prove this.
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I've never known anyone who cares about what they're doing to laugh when they **** up. I've known a handful of people to do so because they don't give a **** (usually because they're getting paid anyway).

As it seems to me that this is the norm, I'll need contrary evidence to disprove it.
 
DTA said:
Although I acknowledge he ain't on the best of his form and watching a match is a better indication of contributions than statistics

Im puzzled as to why so many people are having a problem with the assist of the asssister being a key contribution... I am of the opinion that it was pretty well established statistic in football circles?
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It may be well established but that doesn’t mean that it carries much weight. I’m definitely not saying that it’s meaningless, of course it has its place, all I’m saying is that they shouldn’t be used as conclusive evidence alone to demonstrate how well someone is playing, especially as a straightforward pass to an assister can qualify as a key contribution. For example, the guy who passed to Maradona for that wonder goal v England in the World Cup will have received an assist/key contribution for that pass, but was it really key? Or was it essentially just a simple pass that just so happened to lead to something spectacular?

I guess you could argue that it was key as without it the goal would not have happened, hence it being key, but at the same time you could also argue every other single event in that match leading up to that goal were also key. For me something should be labelled as key when there is a moment of ingenuity involved, a moment that creates the opening to an opportunity, like Ade did v Southampton.

Anyway, don’t mean to ramble on about stats, I use them plenty too to bring my arguments forward to a certain point, only reason I have gone on about them is because there have been a fair few posts in this thread that have pointed out a stat and then have acted as if that singular stat alone is decisive for this or that.
 
milo said:
That's ok, you are fine saying what you think, I wouldn't take it as you having a go at me.

I think that the reason the role has changed is because of changes in formation which has happened to exploit space. I am sure that in time things will turn full circle and poacher strikers will come back into fashion but I am struggling to think of a top team that plays with one now.
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That's a good point, strikers are expected to be more well rounded, but they would still expect them to score goals. There's plenty of strikers out there who can do what you say and still get goals.
 
jurgen lineker said:
Depends I guess on whether they actually were key contributions or not, the mere simple pass in the lead-up to a goal seems to qualify as a key involvement on the spurs site, which for me is rather weak. Although, just to note, I agree with you that the Southampton goal can be argued as a key contribution as it was that driving run that instigated the entire move, and whilst it did not create the opportunity itself, it did play a key part in the lead up.

But getting back to your point, it’s like I was saying before, stats can be misleading, simply having 7 key contributions would again imo not prove much, especially if we are counting a simple pass in the build-up to a goal as a key contribution. For me you cannot trump evaluating a player by watching games live yourself and then coming to a conclusion that way. And at the moment, for me, Adebayor is playing below par, he does not look a goal threat, he is not holding the ball up to the level we know he is capable of and he is also not involved enough in the build-up. No amount of stats or heat maps are going to or should persuade me or anyone else otherwise, we have all watched football long enough now to be able take in all the variables and make our own minds up on whether someone is playing well or not.

If Ade was playing well and all these key contributions were actually key, these discussions would not be happening, but he isn’t and imo on the whole they haven’t been, so they are. If he does eventually start playing well, talk of ‘key contributions’ and positioning will vanish and we’ll be talking of more significant contributions such as goals, assists and a high-level of hold-up and general link-up play.
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Exactly. It's only because he isn't scoring or assisting that people have to dare I say it resort to bringing up words like "key contributions. No one is saying that about Chadli, everyone's just talking about his goals and performances as a whole.
 
milo said:
I really don't buy the he plays for a contract argument. I just think that he is a streaky player and if he wasn't he would be playing for a bigger club than us.

We were discussing Ade's wages a couple of days ago, this article in the Standard puts his current salary at between £80-90k a week.
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There was a significant drop in form and work rate once he got his big contract at Arsenal. Then he was poor again after he got a permanent deal at Spurs. It's just too much of a coincidence for me that he plays well early in to a contract or when he's on loan then that form deteriorates.
 
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