Emmanuel Adebayor - Officially gone \o/

[Nigeyman]

I don't know but I would be looking to judge him on his all round contribution and his part in the team's performance, rather than just goals scored. The same as I would any other striker.

fair point, but still I think his all round contribution has not been good enough. Its certainly not good enough to justify his place in the team, of course that is just my opinion.

At the end of the day when most people speak of strikers they talk of goals, when a striker retires its all about their goal records...its why strikers generally get paid the higher wages,to do the most precious thing on a regular basis....put the ball in the back of the net. Ade has had plenty of opportunities to score more goals AND make more of an impressive contribution to the team, neither has happened. I would say that Ade's goal record for us is fair to middling but should be much better with the actual talent that the guy does actually posses in his locker.

I am at the point where I think I have had more than enough of him, I would rather see Kane play who seems to care about playing and links up much better with his teammates, he also looks far more likely to score these days.

I think we all know deep down nothing amazing will happen for us when we have Ade playing as our striker, just seems like some dont/cant/wont see this or they dont want to face it.

 

[milo]

fair point, but still I think his all round contribution has not been good enough. Its certainly not good enough to justify his place in the team, of course that is just my opinion.

At the end of the day when most people speak of strikers they talk of goals, when a striker retires its all about their goal records...its why strikers generally get paid the higher wages,to do the most precious thing on a regular basis....put the ball in the back of the net. Ade has had plenty of opportunities to score more goals AND make more of an impressive contribution to the team, neither has happened. I would say that Ade's goal record for us is fair to middling but should be much better with the actual talent that the guy does actually posses in his locker.

I am at the point where I think I have had more than enough of him, I would rather see Kane play who seems to care about playing and links up much better with his teammates, he also looks far more likely to score these days.

I think we all know deep down nothing amazing will happen for us when we have Ade playing as our striker, just seems like some dont/cant/wont see this or they dont want to face it.

I'm interested in this all round contribution point because there seems to be very polarised views on this. Can anyone think of some stats that we could look at and compare him against other strikers to get an objective rather than subjective view of his all round game?

 

[scaramanga]

Sorry, that just shows you have your anti-Ade blinders on. Especially the last bit. Chadli has FOUR Soton players around him. Tell me where else Ade could've passed that ball where he'd get it? He could not have put in front of Chadli that's for sure. And call that a stretch? Crikey, would hate to see what you'd term a 'sprint'...

In which case, doesn't that mean that we must have had at least 3 unmarked, outfield players? Ade had no right to expect Chadli to be able to do something with that ball when surrounded by others - Chadli pulled one out of the hat and did incredibly well.

Counting that as assisting the assister is like giving credit to the guy who tries to cross but skews it into the top corner. It's still a goal, but it's not a basis for defending the player.

 

[thingonaspring]

is everybody talking about the same goal here??

it was ade's ball through that chadli took on and hit the post, but i'm sure that bounced off his shin and he had nothing to do with it, either.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

In which case, doesn't that mean that we must have had at least 3 unmarked, outfield players? Ade had no right to expect Chadli to be able to do something with that ball when surrounded by others - Chadli pulled one out of the hat and did incredibly well.

Counting that as assisting the assister is like giving credit to the guy who tries to cross but skews it into the top corner. It's still a goal, but it's not a basis for defending the player.

There were not 3 unmarked players at all. The two best options he had were to play the ball to Chadli who actually held his run to create the space to collect the ball to feet (if you watch the goal he actually motions with his arms, as if to say give it to my feet) which Ade did (Chadli did not have to stretch in the slightest). Or to lay it inside to Eriksen who would have been faced with a wall of 5 Southampton players. It was the fact that Ade played the ball to Chadli (and Chadli intellegently held his run) that opened up the space for the lay off and strike by Eriksen.

For the record, the other options he had were to lay the ball back to Mason or to switch the ball to Lamela who was marked at the time and the ball would have needed to be in the air anyway.

Not to say that you absolutely have to have played football to be knowledgeable about it, but some people on here honestly come off with things that make me think they've never been on a football pitch in their lives.

 

[ledley's knee injections]

There were not 3 unmarked players at all. The two best options he had were to play the ball to Chadli who actually held his run to create the space to collect the ball to feet (if you watch the goal he actually motions with his arms, as if to say give it to my feet) which Ade did (Chadli did not have to stretch in the slightest). Or to lay it inside to Eriksen who would have been faced with a wall of 5 Southampton players. It was the fact that Ade played the ball to Chadli (and Chadli intellegently held his run) that opened up the space for the lay off and strike by Eriksen.

For the record, the other options he had were to lay the ball back to Mason or to switch the ball to Lamela who was marked at the time and the ball would have needed to be in the air anyway.

Not to say that you absolutely have to have played football to be knowledgeable about it, but some people on here honestly come off with things that make me think they've never been on a football pitch in their lives.

Yep, it looked to me like Chadli, aware that there were four players in/around him, had intelligently held his run and gestured for the ball to be played into his feet. He turned his body towards Ade, clearly in recognition that Eriksen was in a pocket of space behind him, ready to suck in defenders and the lay it back to him.

Ade made a great run down the flank with the ball, clearly got his head up at a couple of times to see what was going on, read Chadli's instructions, played a quick ball ACCURATELY into Chadli's feet which meant Nacer didn't have to stretch at all in order to execute the pass he wanted to play.

Chadli then intelligently and adeptly laid it off first time into the path of Eriksen, who pings it in bottom corner, boom.

Looked to me like an excellently worked goal displaying good team work, pace, intelligence and accurate passing. All of which Ade had a big hand in and was a massive positive part of. Unless you have serious blinkers on...

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Yes Ade assisted with this goal, he crossed for one of Chadli's goals and has scored one himself. That has just been about it...for the whole season. Not good enough.

 

[scaramanga]

There were not 3 unmarked players at all.

Wait, so Southampton were playing with 14 players? I think you need to get onto the FA about this ASAP.

The two best options he had were to play the ball to Chadli who actually held his run to create the space to collect the ball to feet (if you watch the goal he actually motions with his arms, as if to say give it to my feet) which Ade did (Chadli did not have to stretch in the slightest). Or to lay it inside to Eriksen who would have been faced with a wall of 5 Southampton players. It was the fact that Ade played the ball to Chadli (and Chadli intellegently held his run) that opened up the space for the lay off and strike by Eriksen.

For the record, the other options he had were to lay the ball back to Mason or to switch the ball to Lamela who was marked at the time and the ball would have needed to be in the air anyway.

Chadli clearly wanted the ball to feet on the move. He had to turn around to collect Ade's delayed, misplaced pass. He did very well to recover Ade's **** up - there's no more or less to it than that.

Not to say that you absolutely have to have played football to be knowledgeable about it, but some people on here honestly come off with things that make me think they've never been on a football pitch in their lives.

I've noticed a very clear, inverse correlation between the amount of football a person has played and their intelligence.

Maybe those who have played a lot just can't grasp what the others are saying.

 

[Finney Is Back]

In which case, doesn't that mean that we must have had at least 3 unmarked, outfield players? Ade had no right to expect Chadli to be able to do something with that ball when surrounded by others - Chadli pulled one out of the hat and did incredibly well.

Counting that as assisting the assister is like giving credit to the guy who tries to cross but skews it into the top corner. It's still a goal, but it's not a basis for defending the player.

We certainly would've had at least 3 unmarked outfield players.... the problem was that these were not in a position as good as Chadli was in terms of being able to fashion a chance. Another course of action of course would've been to ensure possession was retained and play the ball further back to one of those options (I think Lamela and Mason were in support) I'm sure that would've been the approach favoured by AVB - but we saw where that was (or should I say wasn't) getting us and we binned him to get a better manager in Sherwood. Hopefully we then followed the same pattern to bin Sherwood and get Pochettino in - and I don't think Pochettino's footballing philosophy will regress us back towards AVB's.

So anyway I would say that Adebayor had six realistic options available to him.

1. To continue his run and try to get to the byeline.
2. Try to come inside and run at Southamptons defence and fashion a chance for himself.
3. Hold the ball up on the left to wait for more attacking players to arrive.
4. Attempt to play a difficult ball to Ericksen.
5. Play a ball backwards to one of our unmarked players.
6. Play to ball to Chadli's feet in the way in which Chadli was requesting that ball.

I have put the options above into what I think is a reverse order of what would've been best. IMO Adebayor took the best option. The clip in this thread also doesn't show the good work that Adebayor did prior to playing the ball into Chadli. I don't think either Soldado or Kane would've been able to have given us similar.

I find it interesting that various people on this message board are so unhappy with teh way that Adebayor played last weekend. Especially in light of how the match of the day pundits highlighted how well Adebayor did and how essential he was to the way that we played.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Wait, so Southampton were playing with 14 players? I think you need to get onto the FA about this ASAP.



Chadli clearly wanted the ball to feet on the move. He had to turn around to collect Ade's delayed, misplaced pass. He did very well to recover Ade's **** up - there's no more or less to it than that.



I've noticed a very clear, inverse correlation between the amount of football a person has played and their intelligence.
Maybe those who have played a lot just can't grasp what the others are saying.

Perhaps.... But a very clear correlation between football played and football intelligence....

Maybe you're something of an Albert Einstein (I'll leave you to decide on whether I have made that comparison in terms of your general intelligence or your understanding of football) whereas Millsy is more a Paul Gascoigne! (I'll leave him to decide on whether I mean that in comparison to his football brain or his 'refuelling' activities!)

 

[milo]

I stumbled across this article when looking for some data on Adebayor earlier. Although it was written in preseason, I though that it was interesting in light of the conversation here

http://www.spursfanatic.com/blog/roberto-soldado-emmanuel-adebayor/

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Wait, so Southampton were playing with 14 players? I think you need to get onto the FA about this ASAP.

You know exactly what I meant.

Chadli clearly wanted the ball to feet on the move. He had to turn around to collect Ade's delayed, misplaced pass. He did very well to recover Ade's **** up - there's no more or less to it than that.

Nonsense.

I've noticed a very clear, inverse correlation between the amount of football a person has played and their intelligence.

Maybe those who have played a lot just can't grasp what the others are saying.

Again, nonsense.

 

[wiziwig]

First of al, l I'm going be honest - I don't rate Ade anywhere near as highly as some on here . I think he's a pretty average footballer that's managed to play for some decent teams and scored a fair amount of goals during his career. He's one of these players, that has done a whole lot better out of the game than their talent really merits


I've had to read back a few pages today so as to catch up and, Jurgen Linekers largely ignored post #2263 said it all for me, particularly about Ade's poor link-up play and also in his last paragrapgh where he wrote -

"some are exaggerating Adebayor's performances and the role he is playing for the team to counterbalance the overly critical comments"


So let's be reasonable here - Ade did well to find the surrounded Chadli with that pass, and then Chadli then did well to find Eriksen , who then did great by sticking the ball into the Southampton net!

For a center forward to offer practically no goal threat himself throughout the game, Ade played a 6/10 game versus Southampton, with five of those six points being given for his efforts . Against QPR and Sunderland, which were his only other above average performances, he scored 7s/10s . The other games he's been poor with 5/10s at best and below. The West Brom game we won't even go there .


As said in Jurgen Lineker's post - Ade's link up play and technique is average at best. As far as I'm concerned its on the same level as a Grant Holt or a Kenwyne Jones. I think it's his average quality on the ball that is the reason, no regular participant of the Champions League from one of the major leagues has sought to hire his services. Besiktas was it ?

Lastly - Milo you said in post #2307

"I don't know but I would be looking to judge him on his all round contribution and his part in the team's performance, rather than just goals scored."


That's all very well, Milo but I do think you're ignoring what you're dealing with here. This is Adebayor we're talking about and at the moment it's one goal scored in seven games . If this carries on, this could soon become two goals in fourteen games, then, three or four goals scored in twenty-one games. How long do you think it'll be before Ade stands up in front of his team mates and tells Poch that his tactics are shiite?


All this about peeling off to the wide areas so as to create space for team mates is fine but for me, it shouldn't the integral part of of the forward's play, particularly for the skill sets that both Ade and Soldado offer. I do think if Poch is going to play Ade, then he has to play him between the sticks , same with Soldado (I see Kane , more as one of the three behind the striker). We need both or either Ade and Soldado to get scoring. Last time I looked at the table, we're one of lowest scorers in the division and even Frazier fcuking Campbell has scored more goals than both our strikers!

 

[scaramanga]

Perhaps.... But a very clear correlation between football played and football intelligence....

Maybe you're something of an Albert Einstein (I'll leave you to decide on whether I have made that comparison in terms of your general intelligence or your understanding of football) whereas Millsy is more a Paul Gascoigne! (I'll leave him to decide on whether I mean that in comparison to his football brain or his 'refuelling' activities!)

He's clearly not, I've read his posts

 

[scaramanga]

You know exactly what I meant.

Nonsense.


Again, nonsense.

Thanks for yet another valuable contribution.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Perhaps.... But a very clear correlation between football played and football intelligence....

Maybe you're something of an Albert Einstein (I'll leave you to decide on whether I have made that comparison in terms of your general intelligence or your understanding of football) whereas Millsy is more a Paul Gascoigne! (I'll leave him to decide on whether I mean that in comparison to his football brain or his 'refuelling' activities!)

:ross:

I'm not sure anyone can measure up to him on either re-fuelling or footballing abilities (and certainly not at the same time like he did!)

 

[scaramanga]

We certainly would've had at least 3 unmarked outfield players.... the problem was that these were not in a position as good as Chadli was in terms of being able to fashion a chance. Another course of action of course would've been to ensure possession was retained and play the ball further back to one of those options (I think Lamela and Mason were in support) I'm sure that would've been the approach favoured by AVB - but we saw where that was (or should I say wasn't) getting us and we binned him to get a better manager in Sherwood. Hopefully we then followed the same pattern to bin Sherwood and get Pochettino in - and I don't think Pochettino's footballing philosophy will regress us back towards AVB's.

Wow, you really can't go a whole post without digging out some reason to abuse AVB can you?

Did he **** your mum or something? Or are you Frank Lampard? You really should see someone about that hatred, it could become a serious issue over time.

So anyway I would say that Adebayor had six realistic options available to him.

1. To continue his run and try to get to the byeline.
2. Try to come inside and run at Southamptons defence and fashion a chance for himself.
3. Hold the ball up on the left to wait for more attacking players to arrive.
4. Attempt to play a difficult ball to Ericksen.
5. Play a ball backwards to one of our unmarked players.
6. Play to ball to Chadli's feet in the way in which Chadli was requesting that ball.

I have put the options above into what I think is a reverse order of what would've been best. IMO Adebayor took the best option. The clip in this thread also doesn't show the good work that Adebayor did prior to playing the ball into Chadli. I don't think either Soldado or Kane would've been able to have given us similar.

I simply disagree. He played a poor pass that was a poor choice to begin with. Chadli did some great work despite what Ade did and created something out of it.

I find it interesting that various people on this message board are so unhappy with teh way that Adebayor played last weekend. Especially in light of how the match of the day pundits highlighted how well Adebayor did and how essential he was to the way that we played.

Those same pundits who (according to this forum) don't have a clue and know nothing at all about football when their viewpoint doesn't happen to support your own? I don't often watch MOTD but I read far more on here about how wrong they are than how right they are.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Thanks for yet another valuable contribution.

In the interests of a debate I'll rise to this.

It was blatantly obvious from my post that what I meant was there were not 3 sensible options available to Ade as a response to you suggesting there were 3 unmarked players. I went on to explain my rational for that and rather than offer a decent counter argument to my explanation, you make a stupid remark about how Southampton must have been playing with 14 players then. What a valid contribution to the debate you made there.


On your second point, explain to me how you take the ball to feet 'on the run'. I think what you are trying to say is that Chadli wanted the ball played in front of him?


Your final point was just a standard snobbish remark from you.

 

[Jurgen the German]

As someone who still plays upfront, and often has their back to goal to flick layoffs like that around to people running on, I absolutely, 100% fail to see where Chadli's stretching anything whatsoever mate…I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative, I just think it's really inaccurate to say he was 'stretching' when video clearly shows he wasn't.

I've watched it again, I retract my statement from before. Perfectly good pass.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Strawman. No one has said that he is undroppable. Plenty of people have said that players should be judge on more than one criteria.

How is it strawman. He's got one goal and generally has been below par to average depending on how lenient you judge it, his overall play has been OK at best, but we should stick with him according to some?