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Emmanuel Adebayor - Officially gone \o/

Jurgen the German said:
How is it strawman. He's got one goal and generally has been below par to average depending on how lenient you judge it, his overall play has been OK at best, but we should stick with him according to some?
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It is a strawman because you are arguing against a point that no one is making.
 
milo said:
It is a strawman because you are arguing against a point that no one is making.
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Whilst no one is explicitly saying it, it comes across like he's actually played well in some people'e eyes and his goal record is almost immaterial as long as he plays well, but I wouldn't give him more than a 6 out of 10 so far, and that's being kind.
 
metalgear said:
what's a key contribution stat based on ?
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Could be based, at least in part, on the player in question. If Lamela had key contributions to 5 of our 9 goals nobody would really question it.

(And if it had been Lamela that had made that run and played that pass in to Chadli...we'd all be saying he fecked up?)
 
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Gilzeantoscore said:
Yes Ade assisted with this goal, he crossed for one of Chadli's goals and has scored one himself. That has just been about it...for the whole season. Not good enough.
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Yeah to keep it simple , even counting key contributions, we are not going to be able to challenge for top 4 if we can't have ade, Chadli, eriksen and lamela chalking up more goals and assists, like 50% more if we want to emulate the current top 4.
 
metalgear said:
Yeah to keep it simple , even counting key contributions, we are not going to be able to challenge for top 4 if we can't have ade, Chadli, eriksen and lamela chalking up more goals and assists, like 50% more if we want to emulate the current top 4.
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Agreed - it's still early days but I would've hoped for more than the nine goals, after the seven games that we've had, especialy after seeing how we attacked against QPR ( yes , I know they were rubbish ).
 
scaramanga said:
Wow, you really can't go a whole post without digging out some reason to abuse AVB can you?

Did he **** your mum or something? Or are you Frank Lampard? You really should see someone about that hatred, it could become a serious issue over time.
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Ah camon.... I'd almost gone a whole thread without doing so!... ;) I'm flattered you noticed though - I actually liked AVB until he fcuked my mum.... I mean until he turned going to WHL from being an entertaining experience I really looked forward to, to one that I would only recommend to those suffering with insomnia.

Still, you liked his snappy continental dress sense and gravelly voice, so I'll try to lay off of him to avoid hurting your feelings.

scaramanga said:
I simply disagree. He played a poor pass that was a poor choice to begin with. Chadli did some great work despite what Ade did and created something out of it.
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So which of the 6 options do you think Adebayor should've taken? I think only the ball to Chadli or going back to Mason were good options in that attack. To delay would've allowed Southampton to regroup and I believe Pochettino's football is all about creating situations before the opposition are able to regroup. This is where Pochettino's style of football differs from AVB's (and that isnt' a criticism of AVB, just a point about how their philosophies differ).... Oh all right then it was a criticism... Don't take it too badly! :lol:

scaramanga said:
Those same pundits who (according to this forum) don't have a clue and know nothing at all about football when their viewpoint doesn't happen to support your own? I don't often watch MOTD but I read far more on here about how wrong they are than how right they are.
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Personally I think most of them seem to have a reasonable idea what they're talking about. After showing our highlights of the Southampton match they singled out Adebayor in particular for praise.... I just don't see why that would've happened if he'd been as poor as some on this thread seem to be suggesting. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if some who are criticising him on this thread weren't at the game or didn't even watch the game at all.
 
scaramanga said:
In which case, doesn't that mean that we must have had at least 3 unmarked, outfield players? Ade had no right to expect Chadli to be able to do something with that ball when surrounded by others - Chadli pulled one out of the hat and did incredibly well.

Counting that as assisting the assister is like giving credit to the guy who tries to cross but skews it into the top corner. It's still a goal, but it's not a basis for defending the player.
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No no mate, you have to watch it without your AABs on (Anti Ade Blinkers)…Chadli did, indeed, produce a great lay-off, but to suggest he improvised it, etc, is just folly. He knew exactly what he was going to do before the pass comes in and, indeed, shapes up to receive/execute as he did. as for the first line, yes, undoubtably we did…somewhere other than in a dangerous attacking area/dragging this clump of defenders in a couple of different directions.
 
scaramanga said:
Wait, so Southampton were playing with 14 players? I think you need to get onto the FA about this ASAP.



Chadli clearly wanted the ball to feet on the move. He had to turn around to collect Ade's delayed, misplaced pass. He did very well to recover Ade's **** up - there's no more or less to it than that.



I've noticed a very clear, inverse correlation between the amount of football a person has played and their intelligence.

Maybe those who have played a lot just can't grasp what the others are saying.
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Now you're trolling. I know it. You rogue!!!!! :lol:=D>
 
metalgear said:
Yeah to keep it simple , even counting key contributions, we are not going to be able to challenge for top 4 if we can't have ade, Chadli, eriksen and lamela chalking up more goals and assists, like 50% more if we want to emulate the current top 4.
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A very fair point indeed. It's a case of finding the right combination. I think we could do with the 'released' midfielders taking more shots on site, and yes, it would be churlish not to agree that Ade needs to be more 'goal positive' too. In fact, the purpose with which he broke to help create 'the much debated' goal would be great seen more often and with him doing a 'chelski' at the end!!!! But to ignore any of the good work he has done this season, well, y'know, fixed-player-dislikes and all...
 
thfcsteff said:
A very fair point indeed. It's a case of finding the right combination. I think we could do with the 'released' midfielders taking more shots on site, and yes, it would be churlish not to agree that Ade needs to be more 'goal positive' too. In fact, the purpose with which he broke to help create 'the much debated' goal would be great seen more often and with him doing a 'chelski' at the end!!!! But to ignore any of the good work he has done this season, well, y'know, fixed-player-dislikes and all...
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I don't necessarily disagree that he has instructions to drop deep and create space for the 3 behind him, but I can't for the life of me believe Poch is telling him to neglect his duties as a goalscorer altogether. We are simply not going to come close to achieving what we want to achieve with Ade scoring at the rate he is at the moment.... Well unless Chadli does what Bale did two seasons ago.

I'm a striker and call me old fashioned, but I've always looked at strikers' in terms of how many goals they've scored. That's why I never rated Heskey and I still won't rate Welbeck until he becomes prolific, I won't really be persuaded about this, a striker with a goal ratio of 1 in 7 (yes even if he is playing well) is simply not good enough in my opinion.

I've always thought he flattered to deceive, his entire career, his MO has been the same; brilliant at times, utterly inept at others. The most frustrating thing is, It's not a talent issue despite his so so finishing and poor control, it's more motivation/desire call it whatever you want. He's just too unreliable and too much of a maverick, it's not like he's as good as Luis Suarez where we can afford to tolerate his strange behaviour at times.

I'm sure there are Spurs fans that genuniely don't like him, I've never met him so I don't have any strong feelings either way. But he's too much of an enigma for me, it's not some vendetta as some posters seem to insinuate.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
In the interests of a debate I'll rise to this.

It was blatantly obvious from my post that what I meant was there were not 3 sensible options available to Ade as a response to you suggesting there were 3 unmarked players. I went on to explain my rational for that and rather than offer a decent counter argument to my explanation, you make a stupid remark about how Southampton must have been playing with 14 players then. What a valid contribution to the debate you made there.
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You obviously (I assume intentionally) misinterpreted my preceding post. If a player is heavily marked then that makes space for others - usually including some for the man with the ball. Despite Chadli's great escape, passing to him (and specifically inaccurately) was the worst option. Actually that's not true - Ade's usual spazzing it at the corner flag was a worse option.

Millsy_Yiddo said:
On your second point, explain to me how you take the ball to feet 'on the run'. I think what you are trying to say is that Chadli wanted the ball played in front of him?
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Quite simple really, you place and weigh your pass so that the ball and the player's foot arrive in the same place at the same time. Preferably without the player having to slow down, stretch, turn, etc.

Millsy_Yiddo said:
Your final point was just a standard snobbish remark from you.
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How does it stack up against the suggestion that only people who've played a lot of football (without any knowledge whatsoever about how much football others have played) can understand it properly?

I've had a lot of people perform a lot of jobs for me in my career, some of them for large chunks of their working lives. Not one of them yet has had an understanding of their role in the way I do, despite me never having held any of those positions.

I don't think my opinion is at all snobbish. Elitist? Probably. Not snobbish though.

Anyway, that all gone waaay past the limit of my (admittedly small) attention span. So let's just settle on the fact that even if we're really generous and count all the goals scored despite of Ade, his contribution is still falling a very, very long way short of what someone on his wages should be providing.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Why don't you just get a rope and hang him from a lamppost, don't forget your silly hats.
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ah yes I wondered when the race card would be played...pretty unnecessary really!

but as I said the other day the excuses for some to defend ade just get wilder and wilder....now we are all racists.....zzzzzzzzzzzz
 
Nigeyman said:
ah yes I wondered when the race card would be played...pretty unnecessary really!

but as I said the other day the excuses for some to defend ade just get wilder and wilder....now we are all racists.....zzzzzzzzzzzz
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Sorry, I'm too busy burning a cross on my front lawn to hear you.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don't necessarily disagree that he has instructions to drop deep and create space for the 3 behind him, but I can't for the life of me believe Poch is telling him to neglect his duties as a goalscorer altogether. We are simply not going to come close to achieving what we want to achieve with Ade scoring at the rate he is at the moment.... Well unless Chadli does what Bale did two seasons ago.
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Again this is a straw man argument, no one is saying that Ade is being instructed to not score goals.

It is very likely that he is being asked to drop deep. Lambert did this last season at Southampton and Rodriguez profited exactly like Chadli is for us this season. I am sure that Poch wants more goals from Ade too but this will not be the only criteria that he will judge him on.
 
Back to the sanity ( relatively speaking) of the post.
Does anyone really agree with this dragging defenders out tactic? I don't. Not just with Ade but with anyone. I can't see that it would work that well for us. Most teams play with so many behind the ball it doesn't really matter. Also when a CF moves out to the wing or drops back to the half way line how many CBs follow him? None is how many, so where's the space? If that space is there why isn't eriksen and Lamella in the box more? Because it's not there IMO.
Every week the pundits show well marshalled defences, u don't see any back line defenders sitting as deep as the teams we play against getting pulled 30 yards out of position.
By the way I don't actually believe that's what Poch is trying to do


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