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Daniel Levy - Chairman

Old Trafford is a million times better than Wembley - i don't know how anyone who has been to both could say otherwise, Wembley is brick (well obviously not brick in certain aspects, but as a supporter i totally hate it)

Old Trafford is a bit of a fudge up, IMO.

The massively sloping roofs ruin it. Anyone in the upper tier of that big north stand has no view of most of the remainder of the stadium. And I hate that. I like to be able to see as much of the stadium as possible. I hate the sense of being somehow cut off from the remainder of the crowd.
 
Why not Pulis? The brand of football is the same. Actually that is a little unfair on Stoke. Norwich played more long balls this season than any other Premiership team....

Agreed.

Lambert must be a very effective manager. Fantastic record of success in his short time. But I don't like the way that his teams play.
 
However, all of our charity/foundation work considered, you will recall that the stock answer from the leader of Haringey council, was that the council had absolutely no money. Indeed, and do correct me if I'm wrong, but the money we've since received has actually come from the Mayors office, ie: nothing to do with Haringey council at all.

Wrong. Haringey have committed ?ú9 million to public works for which Spurs had previously been ordered to pay.

Oh yeah, we've remained competitive - that's for sure, but that's an incredibly short-term view. The simple fact is this: many of those around us already have larger capacities. We're then forced to be incredibly creative with other revenue streams, in order to just maintain our level. But you can only do that for so long, and for so long as your brand is competitive; therein, either a virtuous or vicious circle, whichever cycle you happen to be in. Longer term, the only way to remain truly competitive, is to drive and guarantee growth in your fixed revenue, ie: the stadium which pulls the punters in.

.....Which is precisely why Levy is doing all he can to get the stadium issue resolved in a manner which will best serve Spurs' interests, not merely for the next few years, but for the long term.

He was clear, from the very first moment that he took over the club, that the priorities were, in order:

1. The first team.
2. The Academy and training ground.
3. The stadium.

Priorities one and two addressed. Priority three, work in progress. Spurs didn't need to increase the stadium capacity for the first few years of Levy's tenure anyway. Only since 2005, when results started picking up, have we steadily grown the waiting list. And it's no bad thing, creating demand by restricting supply. It's a common strategy in many other sectors. It's only in the past couple of years that the new stadium has become an imperative.

And I'm sorry, but I don't accept extremely risk averse behaviour purely on the evidence that 'we might do a Leeds Utd' - because if that's the weakness of the management, then - with respect - they'd better move aside. Risks are about calculations; Arsenal took one by saddling the club with a lot of short-term debt, and that's paying off handsomely. In a couple of years time - financially - they're going to be right at the very top. That's where we need to be too, if - in the long-term - we're to not just stay competitive, but actually continually raise our own standards.

With respect, I'm confident that Levy knows and understands at least as much about risk as you do. Besides, it's quite wrong to claim that he is risk averse. He couldn't have possibly got to where he is without taking carefully considered risks. Prudence and risk taking are not mutually exclusive.

As to Arsenal bravely taking the plunge to build their stadium, you should be aware that theirs too was in the planning for many, many years. It didn't happen overnight. And besides, their situation at the time is only marginally analogous to ours now. They had been serial title challengers for 15 years and more, under both Wenger and Graham. They were regular trophy winners. And, crucially, they were (and seemed certain to remain) perennial Champions League qualifiers. As a result of all that, and their smallish stadium, they had something like a 60K waiting list. Furthermore, they were based in a desirable area of London and could depend upon healthy property sales to help pay off their debts.

Spurs, by contrast, haven't been title challengers in the past 25 years. We've rarely won trophies. We've only ever once qualified for the Champions League. We have only very recently grown a big waiting list. And we are situated in one of the least desirable areas of London.

The long and the short of it? Building a big, new stadium is a massively more risky undertaking for Spurs than it ever was for Arsenal. So Levy is absolutely right to prioritise minimising the risks.
 
Yes, congratulations Daniel Levy for minimising the risks...

...instead of having a stadium, we can just talk about having one instead.

Cheap n cheerful 8)
 
Yes, congratulations Daniel Levy for minimising the risks...

...instead of having a stadium, we can just talk about having one instead.

Cheap n cheerful 8)

Cheap and cheerful, piecemeal, short term is what you have been preaching.

Levy has gone the other way. Top quality, holistic, long term.

I prefer the latter - even if it takes a bit longer.
 
Yes, congratulations Daniel Levy for minimising the risks...

...instead of having a stadium, we can just talk about having one instead.

Cheap n cheerful 8)

LOL...you just won't have it will you mate? Ah well...we all only want the best for the club in the end, important to remember that I suppose...
 
I like the guy (or what limited knowledge i have of him), i like where we are i like where we are going......I remember the mid 1990's. I credit him for a steady rise to the top built on solid foundations.
 
Steff and Wriggly 2 standout posts. I cannot give you a detailed account of discussions re: stadium or how the club is run we . I can just point the football rich list, the progress we have made in the league and what I view as his shrewd bargaining over the stadium. We are the only club to consistently challenge the SKY 4 without an oil sheikh. How on Earth have we managed to sign great players like VDV, Modric, Berbatov, Bale ( who was highly sought after) and poss Vertohogen (SIC) without the levarage of CL or super high wages and unlike the gooners sign them on long term deals meaning we have to be paid high transfer fees when they move on.
I loved Jol but I don't think replacing him with Ramos, without the benefit of hindsight, was a mistake. Remember in Feb 2008 we won the Carling Cup after a fantastic tournament that for me ranks with our 81/82 Cup sucesses. At that point no one could have forseen how the ramos period would end. I was truly excited about the future.

I am proud to support a club with ambition to get into the Champions League and try to make it happen. Do fans not remember the brick of Scholar almost bankcrupting the club, the dodgy deals of venables and the mediocrity of the Sugar years? By the way it wasn't Daniel Levy that said "see you in the Champions league" It was David Buchler. I think DL is a fantastic chairman
 
Cheap and cheerful, piecemeal, short term is what you have been preaching.

Levy has gone the other way. Top quality, holistic, long term.

I prefer the latter - even if it takes a bit longer.

Not at all.

I'm a progress person; I like to see tangible evidence that something has actually progressed - less talk, more walk. Some people love walking around in circles getting all excited about the idea of doing something - but that's all, because nothing ever happens with them.

I find it laughable that you'd claim that wanting to see tangible progress "short-term" when Daniel Levy hasn't increased the size of the stadium in the 11 years since he's been at the club? And the problem was also one which he inherited, so not exactly as if it wasn't on his radar.

Oh he's definitely gone long-term - so long a term in fact, that he hasn't even made a firm statement to commit that he will actually realise NDP. And I agree, it would be a top quality development, but - if we can't afford it - then, get real, it's complete pie in the sky.

It's easy to reference the lack of inherent commitment, as Levy found it very easy to drop NDP like a stone and change tact to pursue the embarrassing Stratford debacle. Some people seek to justify this as him showing his "opportunistic" side - which is okay and plausible, but just then don't run with this nonsense that Levy has been meticulously planning the NDP scheme for 11 years.

By the way, why is everyone obsessed with new build these days? It completely dismisses the fact that - actually - there's nothing wrong with adopting a piecemeal approach to growing your capacity. Of course - in an ideal world - everyone would build stossy, flash new stadiums, but not everyone can afford that - and we're one of those that can't, THAT'S why the numbers just don't stack up.

So, my main criticism is that Daniel Levy - instead of accepting that NDP was never going to be affordable - chose to stick with this flawed plan, and refused to consider a gradual approach. 11 years is a long time to have exactly the same capacity though, wouldn't you say? I think Levy should've scoped out NDP - nothing wrong with doing that - but then, having found it was wholly unaffordable, should've changed strategy and adopted a gradual approach: little by little. Had he done that, I've no doubt at all in my mind that White Hart Lane would be in the order of a 50,000 stadium by now. Granted it wouldn't be all flash and stossy, but - bottom line - we'd have more bums on seats.

As hard as it is to accept, we had a 36k stadium in 2001, and we've still a 36k stadium in 2012.
 
Not at all.

I'm a progress person; I like to see tangible evidence that something has actually progressed - less talk, more walk. Some people love walking around in circles getting all excited about the idea of doing something - but that's all, because nothing ever happens with them.

I find it laughable that you'd claim that wanting to see tangible progress "short-term" when Daniel Levy hasn't increased the size of the stadium in the 11 years since he's been at the club? And the problem was also one which he inherited, so not exactly as if it wasn't on his radar.

Oh he's definitely gone long-term - so long a term in fact, that he hasn't even made a firm statement to commit that he will actually realise NDP. And I agree, it would be a top quality development, but - if we can't afford it - then, get real, it's complete pie in the sky.

It's easy to reference the lack of inherent commitment, as Levy found it very easy to drop NDP like a stone and change tact to pursue the embarrassing Stratford debacle. Some people seek to justify this as him showing his "opportunistic" side - which is okay and plausible, but just then don't run with this nonsense that Levy has been meticulously planning the NDP scheme for 11 years.

By the way, why is everyone obsessed with new build these days? It completely dismisses the fact that - actually - there's nothing wrong with adopting a piecemeal approach to growing your capacity. Of course - in an ideal world - everyone would build stossy, flash new stadiums, but not everyone can afford that - and we're one of those that can't, THAT'S why the numbers just don't stack up.

So, my main criticism is that Daniel Levy - instead of accepting that NDP was never going to be affordable - chose to stick with this flawed plan, and refused to consider a gradual approach. 11 years is a long time to have exactly the same capacity though, wouldn't you say? I think Levy should've scoped out NDP - nothing wrong with doing that - but then, having found it was wholly unaffordable, should've changed strategy and adopted a gradual approach: little by little. Had he done that, I've no doubt at all in my mind that White Hart Lane would be in the order of a 50,000 stadium by now. Granted it wouldn't be all flash and stossy, but - bottom line - we'd have more bums on seats.

As hard as it is to accept, we had a 36k stadium in 2001, and we've still a 36k stadium in 2012.

Spot on, i also am not convinced that coporate people only go to new grounds and not old redeveloped grounds. I imagine they care more about the service they get then the stadium itself.
 
Captivated+by+the+Sheikh+AU.jpg
 
As hard as it is to accept, we had a 36k stadium in 2001, and we've still a 36k stadium in 2012.

As hard as it is to accept, we've also had in that time some monstrous under-achievement which has seen us nowhere near the CL until 2005/06, whence we flirted with it for years and finally got there.

I remember 2001. I genuinely thought Glennda was the man. He was desperately unlucky in the CCF against Blackburn, etc...but looking back, perhaps it's a good thing Levy didn't give him 40 mill (worth 60-70 back then) and shove us to a place early on where we would've been staring administration in the face, or at the very least only able to afford Yakubu on a free...

As for getting WHL to 50,000 with various additions, etc, that all (as you know) requires annoying things like planning, etc. That you assume he has not taken every single avenue of exploration available with regards to the capacity issues is worrying. Finally, the piecemeal expansion of WHL would've been a financial disaster for the return. Emotionally I'd have loved it, but alas, it wouldn't have made sense...

I suppose it's all opinions.
 
As hard as it is to accept, we've also had in that time some monstrous under-achievement which has seen us nowhere near the CL until 2005/06, whence we flirted with it for years and finally got there.

I remember 2001. I genuinely thought Glennda was the man. He was desperately unlucky in the CCF against Blackburn, etc...but looking back, perhaps it's a good thing Levy didn't give him 40 mill (worth 60-70 back then) and shove us to a place early on where we would've been staring administration in the face, or at the very least only able to afford Yakubu on a free...

As for getting WHL to 50,000 with various additions, etc, that all (as you know) requires annoying things like planning, etc. That you assume he has not taken every single avenue of exploration available with regards to the capacity issues is worrying. Finally, the piecemeal expansion of WHL would've been a financial disaster for the return. Emotionally I'd have loved it, but alas, it wouldn't have made sense...

I suppose it's all opinions.

It may be opinions, but some I disagree with

Piecemeal from my understanding was not going to be, could not be an option for Tottenham because the true goal of the new stadium is not just the seat capacity (not 1st priority). While it's easy enough to take down one stand at a time and adjust capacity, when your goal is vasty improved corporate facilities, sponsorship, and capabiltiies of the stadium itself (look up the BBC article that talks about new stadium design).

The next stadium needed to have better boxes, better access, better corporate facilities, along with large seasting capacity and yes it needed to be done over a shorter period of time so it could be repackaged and reopened to get the exposure/media value to sell those corporate facilities.

Again, back to the original point of this thread

- When my management asks me how my business is going, it's usually "hows our numbers" then "hows our numbers compared to our peers/competitors"
- When judging Levy, I'm looking for the folks (discounting lottery winners) who are doing a better job
 
As hard as it is to accept, we've also had in that time some monstrous under-achievement which has seen us nowhere near the CL until 2005/06, whence we flirted with it for years and finally got there.

I remember 2001. I genuinely thought Glennda was the man. He was desperately unlucky in the CCF against Blackburn, etc...but looking back, perhaps it's a good thing Levy didn't give him 40 mill (worth 60-70 back then) and shove us to a place early on where we would've been staring administration in the face, or at the very least only able to afford Yakubu on a free...

As for getting WHL to 50,000 with various additions, etc, that all (as you know) requires annoying things like planning, etc. That you assume he has not taken every single avenue of exploration available with regards to the capacity issues is worrying. Finally, the piecemeal expansion of WHL would've been a financial disaster for the return. Emotionally I'd have loved it, but alas, it wouldn't have made sense...

I suppose it's all opinions.

Steff, you're completely ignoring the facts of the matter here: instead of Levy proposing a piecemeal expansion which - by your reckoning - would've apparently been a financial disaster, he's proposed...errr, something we can't afford. So, how or why the hell would you want to credit him for doing that? :~ Do you see how it's just bordering on the ridiculous somewhat; you're lauding him up for not pursuing an option on the basis of finance - yet applauding him for coming up with a 'solution' which is wholly unaffordable!? :ross:

As for 'making sense' - how does coming up with proposals which the Club patently cannot afford, make any sense? That's why we are where we are; lovely stossy plans, all the planning approvals you could ever want but one small problem...we can't afford it. I find that embarrassing to be perfectly honest. So many people harp on about it not being Levy's fault and that it's because of the financial climate; okay, so why not change strategy then - because are you seriously trying to tell me that Daniel Levy didn't foresee difficulties in borrowing such vast sums of money, even in the best of times?

Listen, I'd love NDP to happen - I think we all would. But all it is, is nothing but talk; you can't praise Levy for merely coming up with plans, yet those plans are completely unaffordable. What's the point of that then; it's just tinkling money down the drain isn't it? As I said, Levy knows damn well that achieving finances to fully realise NDP is going to be an extremely difficult challenge - hence the reason why he dropped it like a stone and quickly pursued Stratford instead. This is a very recent change of tact too, so what does THAT tell you about the commitment to NDP?

The biggest and REAL "financial disaster" to the club, has been the lack of progress in addressing the inherited problem of stadium capacity. That's what has fudged us, because we're then forced to maintain our expenditure levels relative to the revenue which we can realise through our piddly little 36k stadium. We're standing still while clubs around us are growing, and - personally - I can't see that changing any time soon, and that's what worries me. It says a LOT when the Chairman hasn't even come out with a firm statement committing himself to building this marvellous, wonderful stadium - and yet some of you want to credit him for it!? :lol:
 
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