Daniel Levy - Chairman

[braineclipse]

Bingo.

100% this.

My impression is that quite a lot of what's aimed as criticism ends up having a both rational and non Levy blaming explanation. Like this example, not that I can know that this is true, but seems plausible.

Didn't sign Suarez, oh the manager didn't want Suarez. Didn't sign enough players, oh the manager didn't actually want that many players. Didn't sign player X, oh that's because we prioritised signing player Y instead and that was actually the football side decision, not Levy.

But for some on the Levy out side that criticism seems to stick.

 

[Bishop]

The point was that they almost sacked probably one of the best managers ever and them not doing that wasn't just football nous or knowledge. It was also luck. I.e. had Levy had that luck things may have been rather different for us, and different for them had they not had that luck. I don't think that's irrelevant.

Surely the club contacted Mourinho because they knew they were going to fire Pochettino? Had Mourinho not wanted to come Pochettino would still get fired, just with someone else coming in imo.

Again though I'm pretty much expecting around half of managerial appointments to end up unsuccessful.

But they didn't sack him. You're talking in the realms of ifs, buts, and maybes. We will likely never know all the ins and outs of how close Fergie got to getting the sack that year but I also remember that United had an endemic drinking culture deeply rooted at the club and Fergie's priority was to root that out. I would imagine that along with his previous outstanding record at Aberdeen bought him some extra leeway, but that's the point they didn't sack him. We did sack Poch and replaced him with a terribly unsuited coach in Mourinho.

Again I'll say say so it's clear because I think you're missing my point, sacking Poch is not the issue. The issue is the replacement, I'm not talking in hindsight or with the benefit of time. Mourinho was an obviously terrible appointment at the time. If we had contracted someone different the outcome would likely have been better and different and even if it had similarly failed I would give Levy the benefit doubt as he had tried to arrest our slump by doing something bold. Please note, bold is a very key word for me when it comes to Levy, and his lack of it in football operations.

Mourinho was not the guy, If he had paid any attention (rather than being star struck by the name brand) to the end of his second spell at Chelsea and then his Manchester United tenure it would have been really evident that;

A. We did not have the quality of player he required for success.
B. We would not purchase those expensive, established names that he again requires for success.
C. Our squad did not suit either his managerial or tactical style.

For further clarity to my mind state, you will never see me criticise the appointment of Nuno despite it ending in fairly abject failure. I consider that a boldish appointment and one that was more in keeping with the type of coaches that actually work well at Spurs and one that wouldn't be require a complete reconfiguration of the squad, rather an evolution. So you will never have seen nor will you ever see me criticise the appointment of Nuno but Mourinho all day and again it didn't take a Football savant to be able to see that it was fudging clear for all and that's where I say the man's football acumen is lacking.

 

[braineclipse]

But they didn't sack him. You're talking in the realms of ifs, buts, and maybes. We will likely never know all the ins and outs of how close Fergie got to getting the sack that year but I also remember that United had an endemic drinking culture deeply rooted at the club and Fergie's priority was to root that out. I would imagine that along with his previous outstanding record at Aberdeen bought him some extra leeway, but that's the point they didn't sack him. We did sack Poch and replaced him with a terribly unsuited coach in Mourinho.

Again I'll say say so it's clear because I think you're missing my point, sacking Poch is not the issue. The issue is the replacement, I'm not talking in hindsight or with the benefit of time. Mourinho was an obviously terrible appointment at the time. If we had contracted someone different the outcome would likely have been better and different and even if it had similarly failed I would give Levy the benefit doubt as he had tried to arrest our slump by doing something bold. Please note, bold is a very key word for me when it comes to Levy, and his lack of it in football operations.

Mourinho was not the guy, If he had paid any attention (rather than being star struck by the name brand) to the end of his second spell at Chelsea and then his Manchester United tenure it would have been really evident that;

A. We did not have the quality of player he required for success.
B. We would not purchase those expensive, established names that he again requires for success.
C. Our squad did not suit either his managerial or tactical style.

For further clarity to my mind state, you will never see me criticise the appointment of Nuno despite it ending in fairly abject failure. I consider that a boldish appointment and one that was more in keeping with the type of coaches that actually work well at Spurs and one that wouldn't be require a complete reconfiguration of the squad, rather an evolution. So you will never have seen nor will you ever see me criticise the appointment of Nuno but Mourinho all day and again it didn't take a Football savant to be able to see that it was fudging clear for all and that's where I say the man's football acumen is lacking.

When evaluating someone's decision making and there isn't a huge sample size I think looking also at what lead them to making that decision is relevant.

To the extent it's down to luck it can't be ascribed to skill or knowledge. That's not to say skill or knowledge isn't also a factor.

Similarly Levy gets credit for Pochettino and imo deservedly so. I really wanted Pochettino at the time, but he wasn't a super obvious pick. But Pochettino being THAT good for us can't just be ascribed to skill or knowledge for Levy. Luck was a factor.

 

[Bishop]

When evaluating someone's decision making and there isn't a huge sample size I think looking also at what lead them to making that decision is relevant.

To the extent it's down to luck it can't be ascribed to skill or knowledge. That's not to say skill or knowledge isn't also a factor.

Similarly Levy gets credit for Pochettino and imo deservedly so. I really wanted Pochettino at the time, but he wasn't a super obvious pick. But Pochettino being THAT good for us can't just be ascribed to skill or knowledge for Levy. Luck was a factor.

Dude we are talking about the poor appointment of Mourinho and you're diverting into talking about Poch? I've already given him credit for appointing Poch in this very thread. Poch was a great appointment I think that is widely agreed and accepted and I have no problem giving Levy the kudos.

Maybe I'm crazy but again for me this just seems like like you don't want to actually speak on criticism I made of Levy. You're doing what Dub did....

Cool evaluate what made him make the bad decision, it was still self evidently a bad decision. If you go into something knowing it's wrong but still do anyway am I supposed to make excuses for you?