Coronavirus

[Legohamster]

About 3 weeks ago I was getting blistering headaches and a Fever, had it for 3 days straight. Never ever get headaches which isn’t a solid diagnosis but I do wonder if I had a mild case, probably not.

I was off in Jan with what I assumed to be Flu - couldnt even get out of bed and was off for almost 2 weeks

I think its becoming clear its been around since the turn of the year.

 

[SpurMeUp]

A perfectly reasonable question to ask. I mean, it's not as if I'd previously said anything like this, for example...




You then go on to try to paint my point as a black-and-white defence of the UK/attack on Italy...






...when I'd already made clear (on multiple occasions in this thread) that I consider the UK government at serious fault for it's lack of border restrictions:





Are you beginning to see why I might interpret your posts as trolling...?

Why don't you put a little more thought into your posts before firing them off - you know, make sure you're responding to things people have actually said. More haste, less speed. That's assuming of course that these are innocent and/or careless errors you keep making...

Either way, I won't be responding to any more of your misrepresentations of my posts.

So the lather you and Grays were getting into about other nations not doing their bit, comes down to you thinking they should have put pressure on to have games in the UK and Europe cancelled? Is there anything else you think they should have done? Bloomin irresponsible of them!

But you misunderstand me. I am not trying to find fault. There is an interesting question about freedom. China did lock people in. Albeit into one region. I think it was you who was finding the media tiresome (forgive me if it wasn’t). And I would agree in many ways.

There is a lot to be said for dictatorships. If you could only ensure dictators were harmless and working for the good of the people, it is the most effective form of government. There is potential for things to be done quickly without endless debate, a nagging media or worrying about human rights. If it needs to be done - do it!

I lived in Cuba for a short time when it was proper communism, and there are some good sides to authoritarian government. But it seems like there are more drawbacks than advantages. Losses to freedom are the main thing. Something we probably take for granted a little. But that said there is a case for greater government control. I found it strangely refreshing in Cuba to have no commercial independent media. The one paper called Grandma ran stories about the ecology of the island etc and people found it particularly useful...when they couldn’t get hold of toilet paper [emoji23]


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8265143/How-people-REALLY-caught-COVID-19-UK-London.html

Potentially 33 million cases in the UK?

So we should have herd immunity and can open up then.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

It's the only sensible thing to do.

I dont agree. People agree to work for a company under certain conditions if that company cant keep to that end of the deal and actively tries to dismiss them to cut costs then i dont agree with it.

 

[Grays_1890]

So the lather you and Grays were getting into about other nations not doing their bit, comes down to you thinking they should have put pressure on to have games in the UK and Europe cancelled?

Is there anything else you think they should have done? Bloomin irresponsible of them!

But you misunderstand me. I am not trying to find fault. There is an interesting question about freedom.

China did lock people in. Albeit into one region. I think it was you who was finding the media tiresome (forgive me if it wasn’t). And I would agree in many ways.

There is a lot to be said for dictatorships. If you could only ensure dictators were harmless and working for the good of the people, it is the most effective form of government. There is potential for things to be done quickly without endless debate, a nagging media or worrying about human rights. If it needs to be done - do it!

I lived in Cuba for a short time when it was proper communist, and there are some good sides to authoritarian government. But it seems like there are more draw backs than advantages. Losses to freedom is the main thing. Something we probably take for granted a little. But that said there is a case for greater control of the media. I found it strangely refreshing in Cuba to have no commercial independent media. The one paper called Grandma ran stories about the ecology of the island etc and people found it particularly useful when they couldn’t get hold of toilet paper [emoji23]


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

What difference in freedom is it to not being able to travel across London now without having good cause? There is no difference you are just trying to be ultra tricky to the point and AGAIN ignoring points people have made.

If the Italian and Spanish government had outlawed sales of tickets for Juve away, Barcelona away or Naples at home as THEY HAD the domestic league then it would have limited risk as people wouldn’t feel inclined to travel to a behind closed doors game.

It’s not about being communist it’s good common sense.

 

[Legohamster]

I maybe being dumb.

But how are these deaths that relevant?

Indirectly

Someone falls down the stairs with covid - is that an indirect death?

Seems a way for scaremongering

 

[scaramanga]

I was off in Jan with what I assumed to be Flu - couldnt even get out of bed and was off for almost 2 weeks

I think its becoming clear its been around since the turn of the year.

My wife was the same.

My father had a dry cough for so long I made him return to his GP twice. He said it was like the worst kind of flu but was bemused by a complete lack of sinus symptoms

 

[scaramanga]

I dont agree. People agree to work for a company under certain conditions if that company cant keep to that end of the deal and actively tries to dismiss them to cut costs then i dont agree with it.

You're right - they did agree to work under certain conditions.

If those conditions are no longer there, the employee is under no obligation whatsoever to continue to agree to work.

 

[scaramanga]

View attachment 8592

I maybe being dumb.

But how are these deaths that relevant?

Indirectly

Someone falls down the stairs with covid - is that an indirect death?

Seems a way for scaremongering

He's an editor for the most rabid anti-Johnson paper in existence.

He's just doing his bit to try and get the government thrown out before they get to complete Brexit. He's just butthurt that he couldn't convince the country to change their vote with smugness alone.

 

[Legohamster]

My wife was the same.

My father had a dry cough for so long I made him return to his GP twice. He said it was like the worst kind of flu but was bemused by a complete lack of sinus symptoms

Loads of stories like this

Someone at work was hospitalised with what they assumed was flu and on a ventilator. Doctors said it was really strong flu.

Again in Jan.

 

[scaramanga]

​

Loads of stories like this

Someone at work was hospitalised with what they assumed was flu and on a ventilator. Doctors said it was really strong flu.

Again in Jan.

If anyone's looking for likely methods of spreading, my wife teaches at a sixth form. A metric fudgetonne of students there spent the Christmas break in China.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Apart from the fact its a loan, oleary is a scum bag that is refusing to refund people.

BA announcing 12k job cuts

BA were doing the same, making it near impossible to get thru to them and doing their best to force you down the voucher route.

O'Leary is talking nonsense though. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to logon to your itinerary and your flight shows as cancelled, there should be a refund button to return funds to the payment method used when booking. Doesn't matter how many staff you have off or the number of requests, it's all automated.

It's all just to prevent the equivalent of 'a run' on the airlines.

 

[thfcsteff]

When you are taking measures to avoid crowds at football domestically how is that logical to then allow people to travel to the UK potentially:

- Be clear of virus and contract via fellow Italian Supporter
- Be infected and infect a healthy Italian Supporter
- Be clear and contract via social contact that comes with travel and social
- Be infected and spread to others outside the football family
- Come home and spread virus further in your own community

It hardly hard to get your head round and its not about telling people they can travel, if Juve can't sell tickets to domestic games you could maybe just maybe say "sorry you can't sell tickets to Champions League games abroad" therefore you eradicate the higher risk which people travelling in a group of 3/4000 pose.

Its common sense and its consistent based on their original plans

Can I ask (and I am not being a troll) is this entire conversation based upon what should've happenED a couple of months ago? I think there are many lessons which have been learned in all corners of the world personally, further I have to ponder whether it is really worth dissecting the merits of an action months ago which most people would agree was perhaps not the wisest with regards to allowing Italian and Spanish fans to travel as the covid19 outbreak was racing. In mitigation of those errors of judgement, if anyone can show me a suite of major governments/nations that were not fudging up in some way (beyond Denmark and California - let's count it as a nation state ) then I'm all eyes.

There is one big battle with covid19 which will remain the biggest; our modern economic model/lifestyle versus guaranteed safety and health. It is the dance we all have to learn, and a dance which will have to have some international synergy without judgement of the move-skills. What makes that even more of a challenge is that both the UK and US have chosen separatist paths apparently future-dedicated to not working together as much as in the past. Guess what. That model needs revision again.

 

[scaramanga]

BA were doing the same, making it near impossible to get thru to them and doing their best to force you down the voucher route.

O'Leary is talking nonsense though. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to logon to your itinerary and your flight shows as cancelled, there should be a refund button to return funds to the payment method used when booking. Doesn't matter how many staff you have off or the number of requests, it's all automated.

It's all just to prevent the equivalent of 'a run' on the airlines.

They should be discounting flights for next year - that would bring some cash in now.

I see BA have extended their booking window so that US flights next Easter are already available but many of the others haven't.

 

[Grays_1890]

BA were doing the same, making it near impossible to get thru to them and doing their best to force you down the voucher route.

O'Leary is talking nonsense though. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to logon to your itinerary and your flight shows as cancelled, there should be a refund button to return funds to the payment method used when booking. Doesn't matter how many staff you have off or the number of requests, it's all automated.

It's all just to prevent the equivalent of 'a run' on the airlines.

Ryanair doesn’t have the tech to offer that part of the reason they are low cost and it also needs more sophisticated software in order to determine which refunds are genuine and which are not.

They will never have that system due to the cost.

Not saying it’s right and it’s not frustrating but they will get you a refund in 5/6 weeks if you want one and can persevere.

 

[scaramanga]

Can I ask (and I am not being a troll) is this entire conversation based upon what should've happenED a couple of months ago? I think there are many lessons which have been learned in all corners of the world personally, further I have to ponder whether it is really worth dissecting the merits of an action months ago which most people would agree was perhaps not the wisest with regards to allowing Italian and Spanish fans to travel as the covid19 outbreak was racing. In mitigation of those errors of judgement, if anyone can show me a suite of major governments/nations that were not fudging up in some way (beyond Denmark and California - let's count it as a nation state ) then I'm all eyes.

There is one big battle with covid19 which will remain the biggest; our modern economic model/lifestyle versus guaranteed safety and health. It is the dance we all have to learn, and a dance which will have to have some international synergy without judgement of the move-skills. What makes that even more of a challenge is that both the UK and US have chosen separatist paths apparently future-dedicated to not working together as much as in the past. Guess what. That model needs revision again.

We had this question posed over terrorism in the 80s. I'm sure you were around in London when bomb threats were the norm. As a nation our considered response was "fudge this, I'm off to the pub."

Given the choice between a minor increase in my safety and fundamental changes to how I go about my life, I prefer to live my life.

 

[thfcsteff]

They should be discounting flights for next year - that would bring some cash in now.

I see BA have extended their booking window so that US flights next Easter are already available but many of the others haven't.

I agree.
Instead, the prices have remained largely static. In fact, a business class RT to the west coast is still in the 8k range.

 

[Grays_1890]

Can I ask (and I am not being a troll) is this entire conversation based upon what should've happenED a couple of months ago? I think there are many lessons which have been learned in all corners of the world personally, further I have to ponder whether it is really worth dissecting the merits of an action months ago which most people would agree was perhaps not the wisest with regards to allowing Italian and Spanish fans to travel as the covid19 outbreak was racing. In mitigation of those errors of judgement, if anyone can show me a suite of major governments/nations that were not fudging up in some way (beyond Denmark and California - let's count it as a nation state ) then I'm all eyes.

There is one big battle with covid19 which will remain the biggest; our modern economic model/lifestyle versus guaranteed safety and health. It is the dance we all have to learn, and a dance which will have to have some international synergy without judgement of the move-skills. What makes that even more of a challenge is that both the UK and US have chosen separatist paths apparently future-dedicated to not working together as much as in the past. Guess what. That model needs revision again.

Yeh of course there is slight hindsight as I’m not running a country or football although if you look at the Prem thread I’ve called for the league to be expunged for over a month.

The point is and the main point is, allowing Barca to visit Naples when all domestic games were played behind closed doors to avoid spread isn’t a question of hindsight it’s a case of “how”

Surely to allow that just wipes out the work you are trying to achieve? It wasn’t like Italy were not aware or trying to dampen the spread, they were.

 

[scaramanga]

I agree.
Instead, the prices have remained largely static. In fact, a business class RT to the west coast is still in the 8k range.

Last year, a return trip for the extended family in premium economy (I'm not paying business class for kids) was about £9K with Norwegian. BA was around £12.5k from memory.

Those same flights on BA are currently £18k.

 

[Grays_1890]

We had this question posed over terrorism in the 80s. I'm sure you were around in London when bomb threats were the norm. As a nation our considered response was "fudge this, I'm off to the pub."

Given the choice between a minor increase in my safety and fundamental changes to how I go about my life, I prefer to live my life.

And I agree and I would too ala Sweden but I question the contradiction of action which is baffling to me.

It’s like the U.K. no I’m not a fan of the lockdown for the same reasons as you but whilst it’s on I will honour till it’s lifted