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Brennan Johnson

harr1984 said:
Because I wasn't coming on here saying he does x,y and z - I was picking up on the claim he is being carried, which is nonsense. You could literally switch it and say Johnson is carrying most of the forward line considering his attacking numbers and that being the most significant thing to contribute as a forward....
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Well people used to come on here every time Son didn’t score and say he was a waste of space, even during his peak. I actually think the Son of old was quite underrated in terms of his overall play, granted he wasn’t always a silky, cultured passer but he chipped in with his fair share of assists and created plenty of chances. Johnson doesn’t do that. That’s why his position is one we should look to upgrade on in the summer. I wouldn’t actively look to sell him but none of the forwards are automatic first choice for me.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Well people used to come on here every time Son didn’t score and say he was a waste of space, even during his peak. I actually think the Son of old was quite underrated in terms of his overall play, granted he wasn’t always a silky, cultured passer but he chipped in with his fair share of assists and created plenty of chances. Johnson doesn’t do that. That’s why his position is one we should look to upgrade on in the summer. I wouldn’t actively look to sell him but none of the forwards are automatic first choice for me.
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Ah can't comment on that mate, always loved Son during his peak but I think he was on the decline since last season and on record back then as saying so. If Johnson's numbers continue to go on an upward trajectory then he will be worth his weight in gold, but regardless do agree that I'd like to see a real quality wing forward added to the squad on the right - on the left we have Odobert, Moore and even Yang perhaps plus Tel I'm assuming here and likely a better fit there than CF....
 
harr1984 said:
Ah can't comment on that mate, always loved Son during his peak but I think he was on the decline since last season and on record back then as saying so. If Johnson's numbers continue to go on an upward trajectory then he will be worth his weight in gold, but regardless do agree that I'd like to see a real quality wing forward added to the squad on the right - on the left we have Odobert, Moore and even Yang perhaps plus Tel I'm assuming here and likely a better fit there than CF....
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I dont remember anyone being critical of peak son but spurs fan do have some weird views on our own players
 
parklane1 said:
Far better player then some fans say. As others have said he is still fairly young so i wonder how much better he can be given time.
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Agree, and I'm not totally convinced that Ange's system is the one that suits him the most. I feel he's more of a free spirit than this 4-3-3 allows, and perhaps has some of that false number 9 in him like we saw with Dele. That's where the goals seem to come from. People seem to want him to be a tricky winger and take players on. I think his game is more about movement and pace.
 
Yeah he probably has more in common with Lineker or Rush, than a dribbly winger.
He is what he is, he isn't gonna turn into Doku, but why would we want him to!
 
harr1984 said:
Of course that would be nice but the point is there aren't many Salah or Sons at Johnson's age. I agree that the level of our forwards need to improve, but with Odobert, Moore, Johnson and potentially Yang there is some likelihood we have players who can already do that over time. I've said many times we should sign a wing forward of proven quality to go with our youngsters as there is no guarantees they will all end up delivering.

And to your last point, as much as we are an attacking side the goals are very much spread around and if it was as simple as he should be scoring a load because we are an attacking team then why haven't the others matched him? Son hasn't scored many, Solanke hasn't - in fact our two joint top scorers are Maddison and Johnson who seem to get a hell of a lot of the criticism.....
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It's in part because Johnson gets created for, he doesn't create for others.
 
Muttley said:
Agree, and I'm not totally convinced that Ange's system is the one that suits him the most. I feel he's more of a free spirit than this 4-3-3 allows, and perhaps has some of that false number 9 in him like we saw with Dele. That's where the goals seem to come from. People seem to want him to be a tricky winger and take players on. I think his game is more about movement and pace.
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People seem to get this idea that Ange has always had or wants tricky dribblers on the wings. My view is that he wants someone who can stay high and wide, hit high quality crosses low across the box for the other winger to tap in (and be the one tapping in on the other side.) If the winger gets to the point of making the cross by dribbling around players, great. If he's like Bale and uses sheer pace to beat players, great. It doesn't matter how...Ange is all about the end product.

Same with a striker. As I posted in another thread the other day, Kyogo and Solanke are two very different forwards. But they work extremely hard, press extremely well and typically find themselves in the right spot to score goals.

Johnson can absolutely add more to his game -- name me a player who can't? -- but he's doing the most important thing for us at the moment at a very good level.
 
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fernadez said:
He's not a striker though.

If he was playing up top it would have be different but the issue is (well mine at least) is that he's not every good at the things he should be at in his position, beating a player, passing, tracking back. I'm delighted at his goals however I think it's unrealistic to just saying he's good just because of them, as then he'd be expected to score at the same rate from his position over a sustained period of time. That would put him in the elite category.

I think the era that you can carry a player in the hope the get on the end of something has ended. Even someone like Haaland with his goal record is completely ineffective if he doesn't score.
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Doesn't matter if it comes playing as a striker or as a wide forward. That ability is just as important. Just like it was when Alli did it playing more as a "10".

For sure would be good if he could add other elements to his game and for sure we need options with different qualities. But his goals are super valuable.

As long as he's also working hard, stretching play, being a threat opponents have to worry about I don't think of it as "carrying" him.

This game illustrated why we need balance though. Son had a good game without scoring. Took his man on, made things happen and got two assists. Had Son not been able to do that and played to his tired Son levels we would have struggled more and Johnson wouldn't have scored.

We need that one on one ability and creativity from one of our wide forwards.
 
tommysvr said:
People seem to get this idea that Ange has always had or wants tricky dribblers on the wings. My view is that he wants someone who can stay high and wide, hit high quality crosses low across the box for the other winger to tap in (and be the one tapping in on the other side.) If the winger gets to the point of making the cross by dribbling around players, great. If he's like Bale and uses sheer pace to beat players, great. It doesn't matter how...Ange is all about the end product.

Same with a striker. As I posted in another thread the other day, Kyogo and Solanke are two very different forwards. But they work extremely hard, press extremely well and typically find themselves in the right spot to score goals.

Johnson can absolutely add more to his game -- name me a player who can't? -- but he's doing the most important thing for us at the moment at a very good level.
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I think what I meant is that the current Ange's system is designed for the full-backs and midfielders to be on either the inside or outside but it is less likely for the wide forwards.

If you take a look at this - https://www.whoscored.com/matches/1821394/live/england-premier-league-2024-2025-ipswich-tottenham

You will see that Johnson and Son have very wide heatmaps. Then, as we know, Johnson can get into the 18 yard box. That is shown in the charts.

I reckon if you were to look back at his Forest heatmaps then they would be more distributed as that system sorted him more.
 
tommysvr said:
People seem to get this idea that Ange has always had or wants tricky dribblers on the wings. My view is that he wants someone who can stay high and wide, hit high quality crosses low across the box for the other winger to tap in (and be the one tapping in on the other side.) If the winger gets to the point of making the cross by dribbling around players, great. If he's like Bale and uses sheer pace to beat players, great. It doesn't matter how...Ange is all about the end product.

Same with a striker. As I posted in another thread the other day, Kyogo and Solanke are two very different forwards. But they work extremely hard, press extremely well and typically find themselves in the right spot to score goals.

Johnson can absolutely add more to his game -- name me a player who can't? -- but he's doing the most important thing for us at the moment at a very good level.
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I think he wants both. Ideally of course in the same player, but that will always be difficult to get. Failing that having multiple and different options. That's why we signed Odobert imo rather than getting a more like for like replacement for Son/Johnson in. That's also why we loaned Werner imo. For sure he hasn't been good enough, particularly this season. He isn't really that tricky/dribbly winger profile either, but good at beating a man one on one.

Last season too worth remembering that we had Perisic (again, not tricky, but good one vs one at getting separation a and delivering quality crossing) and brought in Solomon who unfortunately was injured for almost all of the season (more tricky dribbly profile).
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He set up the best chance we had for sonny by beating his man.. was a good save
People thought odebert played well but he didn’t create anything
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I guess I see it how involved someone is in the game. So creating 2 chances in 90min isn't great to me. And Odbert came off at 65. I did think he look bit lively.

I like Johnson, but frustrates me at times
 
Mrs Vert said:
I guess I see it how involved someone is in the game. So creating 2 chances in 90min isn't great to me. And Odbert came off at 65. I did think he look bit lively.

I like Johnson, but frustrates me at times
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Johnson is always gonna get people skating him because he isn’t always involved
Kulu comes on and he is constantly involved by comparison
But for comparison his end product is better than the city wide men IMO. They have a load of ball.. twigs and then and then waste it
Johnson doesn’t waste many things
But he is isn’t the dribbly winger people love to see
 
Johnsons performance was generally pathetic. No confidence or desire to beat his man and it started in the 1st minute when he was played in and just stuttered and stalled until the chance was gone. 2nd half he was pretty much hiding (something Son gets accused of). The one decent cross he supplied for Sonny doesn't redeem the rest of it. Someone needs to give him a good shake.

Odobert was a complete contrast. Wanted the ball and tried to create. He could be a good player for us.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Johnson is always gonna get people skating him because he isn’t always involved
Kulu comes on and he is constantly involved by comparison
But for comparison his end product is better than the city wide men IMO. They have a load of ball.. twigs and then and then waste it
Johnson doesn’t waste many things
But he is isn’t the dribbly winger people love to see
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He still reminds me a lot of Son when we brought him.
My concern about Johnson is he might be a bit "soft". Does he have the mentality to improve and become Son quality? The raw ability is there to enhanced. But you can't reach fighting for the inch of space to get only something
 
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