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Black Lives Matter

Glenda's Legs said:
Ah yes the international. FIFA did relent on that. Eventually. The BLM on the shirts though is PL, so the poppy comparison is not really like for like.
I imagine anyone not wearing BLM would be pilloried to high heaven. It’s hard to imagine why anyone would refuse though. I suppose if you thought it was in support of the political movement rather than the sentiment then maybe but I think it’s the sentiment that is being highlighted and supported.
McClean cops a load of abuse for his poppy refusal. But then poppy-policing is a huge thing now.
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There's all kinds of reasons not to supports BLM whilst still wanting to end racism. Many of them are front and centre on their own gofundme page:

We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism
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and strategies for the abolition of police
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They're somewhere between anarchists and communists hiding under the banner of anti-fascism.
 
scaramanga said:
There's all kinds of reasons not to supports BLM whilst still wanting to end racism. Many of them are front and centre on their own gofundme page:





They're somewhere between anarchists and communists hiding under the banner of anti-fascism.
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Which is what I meant by supporting the sentiment of black lives matter (anti-racism) without wanting to support the political elements of BLM.

Abolition of the police is just idiocy. Even the defunding calls in the US aren't with the aim of abolishing the police.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Which is what I meant by supporting the sentiment of black lives matter (anti-racism) without wanting to support the political elements of BLM.

Abolition of the police is just idiocy. Even the defunding calls in the US aren't with the aim of abolishing the police.
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They don't want to abolish the police. That is just hyperbole I suspect. Reforming the police service under the badly named 'defund the police' banner is certainly a laudable goal. They are already expected to do too much that they are not trained or suitable for.
 
Grays_1890 said:
There would be uproar, and players shouldn’t be put in that position especially when it’s token from Football in my opinion.

You disagree with McClean?
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Mm. Certainly the current shirt name change and uniform taking of a knee looks a little striking and 'sends a message' but, ultimately, it is a bit token. It's not exactly brave when the prevailing culture is blowing that way and it'd be more noticeable now if anyone were to not do it.
If football or the entire cohort of footballers used their platform to, say, stand up for and protest against the treatment of workers in Qatar (which almost seems like modern-day slavery) that really would be leveraging their position.
 
Rorschach said:
They don't want to abolish the police. That is just hyperbole I suspect. Reforming the police service under the badly named 'defund the police' banner is certainly a laudable goal. They are already expected to do too much that they are not trained or suitable for.
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I'm not sure that flies when you look at the front page of their website and the hashtag they've chosen is #Defundthepolice, that is the headline for the petition they want signatories for and they specifically state within it that they are calling for a national defunding of the police.
It may be badly worded, but it seems intentional rather than casually hyperbolic
 
JerusalemMan said:
I'm not sure that flies when you look at the front page of their website and the hashtag they've chosen is #Defundthepolice, that is the headline for the petition they want signatories for and they specifically state within it that they are calling for a national defunding of the police.
It may be badly worded, but it seems intentional rather than casually hyperbolic
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I think the correct term is naive.

It's a loud voice given to student politics and all the idiocy that comes with it.
 
JerusalemMan said:
I'm not sure that flies when you look at the front page of their website and the hashtag they've chosen is #Defundthepolice, that is the headline for the petition they want signatories for and they specifically state within it that they are calling for a national defunding of the police.
It may be badly worded, but it seems intentional rather than casually hyperbolic
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Defunding the police is not the same as abolishing the police. Not even close. It is about shrinking the scope of police responsibilities and moving those responsibilities into more appropriate departments.
 
Rorschach said:
Defunding the police is not the same as abolishing the police. Not even close. It is about shrinking the scope of police responsibilities and moving those responsibilities into more appropriate departments.
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I was sent a link last week of an interview with one of the leaders (apparently) of the black lives matter movement in the UK and he specifically said it was his hope/ambition to abolish the police force in the UK.

That and the riots a couple of weeks ago have put me right off this particular movement. I’m dead against racism, but BLM is a bit more than that it seems.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
I was sent a link last week of an interview with one of the leaders (apparently) of the black lives matter movement in the UK and he specifically said it was his hope/ambition to abolish the police force in the UK.

That and the riots a couple of weeks ago have put me right off this particular movement. I’m dead against racism, but BLM is a bit more than that it seems.
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Don't tar everyone with the same brush.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
He’s claiming to be one of the leaders and their website says it, what more do you want?
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More than one person saying something contentious that doesn't match with the primary goals of the movement. The police will not be abolished, nor are they calling for it. I agree it is badly named, I said as much, but anyone who reads beyond the hashtag will know that immediately. This line of argument is a red herring.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
He’s claiming to be one of the leaders and their website says it, what more do you want?
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He has a bit of a point. I don't think most people claiming to support them are the types to do enough research to find out what they actually stand for. Many, I'm sure, are just angry at the world because sitting in their parent's basement doesn't give them the same lifestyle as some CEOs have.
 
Rorschach said:
Defunding the police is not the same as abolishing the police. Not even close. It is about shrinking the scope of police responsibilities and moving those responsibilities into more appropriate departments.
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In that case, wouldn't 'reform the police' be a much more sensible line?
 
Parklaner81 said:
In that case, wouldn't 'reform the police' be a much more sensible line?
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I don't think that's their aim though.

This is the next resort from the extreme left. In both the UK and the US they have tried the political angle and in both cases been firmly rejected by their own parties, let alone the electorate. So the smart move is to hide their extremist aims behind something nobody can criticise - ending racism. It would be beyond simple to make their aim "End all racism" or "Stop being racist" - something any human being worth the name can get behind. They're smarter than Trumpists, they don't say the quiet bit loud but it's there all the same.
 
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scaramanga said:
I don't think that's their aim though.

This is the next resort from the extreme left. In both the UK and the US they have tried the political angle and in both cases been firmly rejected by their own parties, let alone the electorate. So the smart move is to hide their extremist aims behind something nobody can criticise - ending racism. It would be beyond simple to make their aim "End all racism" or "Stop being racist" - something any human being worth the name can get behind. They're smarter than Trumpists, they don't say the quiet but loud but it's there all the same.
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I don't think that's their aim either, but it seems to be the gist of what rorschach is suggesting.

By making the suggestion, I'm pointing out that there's a perfectly sensible, moderate option open to them that, as you say, virtually everybody would be able to support to some degree. That they have chosen not to take that option speaks volumes in my opinion.
 
scaramanga said:
I don't think that's their aim though.

This is the next resort from the extreme left. In both the UK and the US they have tried the political angle and in both cases been firmly rejected by their own parties, let alone the electorate. So the smart move is to hide their extremist aims behind something nobody can criticise - ending racism. It would be beyond simple to make their aim "End all racism" or "Stop being racist" - something any human being worth the name can get behind. They're smarter than Trumpists, they don't say the quiet bit loud but it's there all the same.
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I think George Soros is funding it.
 
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