Black Lives Matter

[thfcsteff]

It’s such a great point in my opinion.

It for me is an example of where the left are so confused or excitable about the next protest that they don’t take a deep breath and step back and actually look at a wider picture.

If you question Islam your pulled to task, but you delve into the oppression of homosexuality to the extreme and women (I’ve been to Saudi and seen it) then the argument conveniently goes quiet and your still the problem and the left make it all a wash.

Same with homophobia shown by scores of famous black stars (Presumably because of their religious upbringing). Stormzy feels an apology is enough for clear homophobia in the modern day and is heralded a star yet people who were born 200 years later have to carry the burden of slavery?

The point is, prejudiced views are not just exclusive to the white man or the so called right, they manifest everywhere in modern forms on all sides of the spectrum.

Let me explain the difference.
Homophobes and child fudgers are reviled. Universally.
I don't look to give anyone "preferrential treatment" on any grounds, least of all skin colour. I don't see anyone cutting anyone any breaks on that score. If you can point me to example I am eager to learn...

 

[thfcsteff]

Did the skilled artisans carry the bricks everywhere?

Are all bricklayers slaves?
Finally you're getting it; society consistently fudges and underpays workers whilst the fat cats take more than they're worth!
Good man!!!!

 

[thfcsteff]

It’s a lovely part of the country and the people are nice folk. Despite the recent uproar they are not all kneeling at the feet of statues. I think like most people they are able to look at a statue and dissect the past and make their own balanced mind up of where someone would sit rather than erasing it.

The statue has become something of a distraction. As Diamond said, most people either did not know it was there and/or did not know who it was.
I agree, it would be nice to believe people would be able to gauge its meaning, but alas I fear not many.

 

[Grays_1890]

Let me explain the difference.
Homophobes and child fudgers are reviled. Universally.
I don't look to give anyone "preferrential treatment" on any grounds, least of all skin colour.

It is beyond clear to me that you simply do NOT understand institutional racism.
That is my observation.

You are welcome to your observations I am welcome to mine, I’m fine with it.

Im sure there are levels of racism in the U.K. I’ve said that all along, to the level being alluded to, I don’t believe so, are all issues in black society the product of the white classes for example? I don’t believe so and I strongly believe the reasoning of looking back 200 years is a way of adding fuel to a smaller fire than actually exists.

The other point is that regardless of skin tone prejudices exist across the board and some are a product of modern society like homophobia, however it seems a well crafted sorry is sufficient from a footballer for blatant discriminative tweets and all is well, but we have to live under a shadow of something that happened 200 years ago because it’s just so, even if a large majority of White Britain works towards a cohesive society.

Maybe the Queen can apologise as slavery in the U.K. was pushed by the royals and the head of the political classes. Maybe that will help.

 

[Grays_1890]

The statue has become something of a distraction. As Diamond said, most people either did not know it was there and/or did not know who it was.
I agree, it would be nice to believe people would be able to gauge its meaning, but alas I fear not many.

Im sure the people of Bristol know/knew

 

[thfcsteff]

No such thing as a perfect society but you can work towards it and realise that although there is a dark part of our history we are learning and the reality now is not the reality of 200 years ago.

But you see THIS is the problem IMO.
You speak of the "reality now not being the reality of 200 years ago" and that is such an open and obvious statement, from the standpoint of modern engineering alone.

But there IS modern slavery. We are all part of it. I do my best to buy ethically but my hypocrisy is flagged every time I use my phone or buy a Nike product. Those third world economies are the direct result of "200
years ago". And the attitudes that go with them.

We must try harder.
I must.
You must.
None of us are exempt or "free" of responsibility, and for every person that learns about -say- King Leopold, we are inching closer towards understanding.

 

[thfcsteff]

You are welcome to your observations I am welcome to mine, I’m fine with it.

Im sure there are levels of racism in the U.K. I’ve said that all along, to the level being alluded to, I don’t believe so, are all issues in black society the product of the white classes for example? I don’t believe so and I strongly believe the reasoning of looking back 200 years is a way of adding fuel to a smaller fire than actually exists.

The other point is that regardless of skin tone prejudices exist across the board and some are a product of modern society like homophobia, however it seems a well crafted sorry is sufficient from a footballer for blatant discriminative tweets and all is well, but we have to live under a shadow of something that happened 200 years ago because it’s just so, even if a large majority of White Britain works towards a cohesive society.

Maybe the Queen can apologise as slavery in the U.K. was pushed by the royals and the head of the political classes. Maybe that will help.

First of all, it you go back to the post you will see I deleted my comment about you and institutional racism. It was out of order and without foundation. I apologise.

The Queen SHOULD make a statement, why not? Yes.

I agree prejudices are across the board (my own personal feeling is that there is a deep class war kicking off) but racism remains the most endemic problem in society to me.

This society is obsessed with celebrities; I believe they hold too much currency.

 

[Grays_1890]

But you see THIS is the problem IMO.
You speak of the "reality now not being the reality of 200 years ago" and that is such an open and obvious statement, from the standpoint of modern engineering alone.

But there IS modern slavery. We are all part of it. I do my best to buy ethically but my hypocrisy is flagged every time I use my phone or buy a Nike product. Those third world economies are the direct result of "200
years ago". And the attitudes that go with them.

We must try harder.
I must.
You must.
None of us are exempt or "free" of responsibility, and for every person that learns about -say- King Leopold, we are inching closer towards understanding.

So if there is a modern slavery as you put it and maybe there is, surely those preaching at the steps of monuments will be tearing up their major endorsements?

Surely showing solidarity to those being exploited will be top of the to do list for Michael Jordan after his multi million pound Nike deal, maybe the reason he gave so much back to the casino.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

First of all, it you go back to the post you will see I deleted my comment about you and institutional racism. It was out of order and without foundation. I apologise.

The Queen SHOULD make a statement, why not? Yes.

I agree prejudices are across the board (my own personal feeling is that there is a deep class war kicking off) but racism remains the most endemic problem in society to me.

This society is obsessed with celebrities; I believe they hold too much currency.

Poverty is 100% the biggest issue in society and it’s not an issue that choose a skin colour

 

[thfcsteff]

So if there is a modern slavery as you put it and maybe there is, surely those preaching at the steps of monuments will be tearing up their major endorsements?

Surely showing solidarity to those being exploited will be top of the to do list for Michael Jordan after his multi million pound Nike deal, maybe the reason he gave so much back to the casino.

Michael Jordan is a whole other subject (file under the "genius like that comes with a severe warp somewhere). I would wholly agree that those endorsed for millions should do more. I would be fine paying an extra 30 quid for their shoes if it was going to a better quality of life for third world workers.

Over the years I have looked to make changes to my purchase habits based on social issues. I can do better, there is little doubt.

 

[thfcsteff]

So if there is a modern slavery as you put it and maybe there is, surely those preaching at the steps of monuments will be tearing up their major endorsements?

Surely showing solidarity to those being exploited will be top of the to do list for Michael Jordan after his multi million pound Nike deal, maybe the reason he gave so much back to the casino.

One other thing, are you referring to the bloke who said don't buy from white businesses? I thought we all agreed he was a tool!

 

[Grays_1890]

First of all, it you go back to the post you will see I deleted my comment about you and institutional racism. It was out of order and without foundation. I apologise.

The Queen SHOULD make a statement, why not? Yes.

I agree prejudices are across the board (my own personal feeling is that there is a deep class war kicking off) but racism remains the most endemic problem in society to me.

This society is obsessed with celebrities; I believe they hold too much currency.

It’s cool it wasn’t that out of order, maybe I don’t, maybe no one does, part of me believes there is too much complexity that a lot of terms are thrown around that hold little meaning to the enormity of the subject so who knows.

Look at the end of the day racism exists and black people have been at the brunt of hardship for many years, thats a fact. In many cases they still do, it differs from place to place.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to say we are in a better place than the US even though we still have problems, I also think it’s more productive to look forward for a collaborative future and look at what foods done rather than back to a past that was so dark it can only serve to divide us more due to the hostility and emotion it brings

 

[Grays_1890]

One other thing, are you referring to the bloke who said don't buy from white businesses? I thought we all agreed he was a tool!

No I’m just saying in general. Your point about modern slavery just shows how deep layered this is but also throws up how deep do those with microphones and profile really think and believe, is this then actually believing what they say or part of them cementing their legacy

 

[thfcsteff]

It’s cool it wasn’t that out of order, maybe I don’t, maybe no one does, part of me believes there is too much complexity that a lot of terms are thrown around that hold little meaning to the enormity of the subject so who knows.

Look at the end of the day racism exists and black people have been at the brunt of hardship for many years, thats a fact. In many cases they still do, it differs from place to place.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to say we are in a better place than the US even though we still have problems, I also think it’s more productive to look forward for a collaborative future and look at what foods done rather than back to a past that was so dark it can only serve to divide us more due to the hostility and emotion it brings

I think our conversation is one of the most productive I have engaged in online. I see your point about history, and in a day and age where everything is zero to sixty there is definitely inflammatory potential.

But I believe the history is vital and must be raised again and again. The key is not to make it punitive more than educational. The other key is a society that is both individually and collectively able to admit when it is wrong. We're all wrong and guilty at times...even Scara was once!!!

 

[thfcsteff]

No I’m just saying in general. Your point about modern slavery just shows how deep layered this is but also throws up how deep do those with microphones and profile really think and believe, is this then actually believing what they say or part of them cementing their legacy

Complex issues which should be part of any rational discussion and analysis...

BTW I see Grays in your name. I went out with a Tilbury/Grays girl in the early to mid-80s. Fenchurch St was a regular launch point, or tube to Barking and switch. Have not been that way since the '90s but knew it well back then!

 

[Grays_1890]

Complex issues which should be part of any rational discussion and analysis...

BTW I see Grays in your name. I went out with a Tilbury/Grays girl in the early to mid-80s. Fenchurch St was a regular launch point, or tube to Barking and switch. Have not been that way since the '90s but knew it well back then!

Haha yeh that’s it, not much has changed there for the good. I go back to see the parents.

 

[Grays_1890]

Just seen that loads of comedy shows have been pulled from free view because of race issues. Fawlty Towers and a couple of others.

Serious question, is all of this getting slightly out of hand?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Just seen that loads of comedy shows have been pulled from free view because of race issues. Fawlty Towers and a couple of others.

Serious question, is all of this getting slightly out of hand?

Yep
Waiting for dads army to be taken off due to its lack of diversity
I grew up with mind you language on TV - now that was racist

 

[scaramanga]

That you continually quote twitter as your (seemingly) key source for most things worries me slightly. You do know twitter isn't a good barometer of the news, right? I thought we'd been over this.

Religion? Religious deities? Not my thing. But how about we start with your good ol' local church? Those old school Christians didn't shy away from rape and pillage. And the Catholics? Sigh.

Again, here all day mate.

My biggest concern about everything is that it will all return to "normal" in a month once the programming is adjusted by modern media..:

Only reason I mention Twitter is that it's now the main news source for the half-witted millennials that make up most of the attendance at marches.

Perfectly happy to remove all religion - don't have any issue with that at all.

You're right about the news cycle though. Millennials are hardly known for their attention spans nor their committment to their causes (see voter turn outs for details).

 

[scaramanga]

Are all bricklayers slaves?
Finally you're getting it; society consistently fudges and underpays workers whilst the fat cats take more than they're worth!
Good man!!!!

Society pays what people are worth, no more and no less. Then socialists get involved and everyone get paid significantly more than their worth and everything goes to brick.