AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
wonderful usage
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Black Lives Matter
- Thread starter AuroRaman
- Start date
wonderful usage
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Not all my words were in response to you, I was opening up to further points I wanted to make, again not aimed at you but the wider protest.
That assumes there are no good reasons to move or disperse a crowd. If there are rioters and looters in the group (and there have been) then moving them to where they can be better monitored and controlled or where the security risk or that to the public is lower, would be required.
We've gone full circle back to judging on evidence Vs making decisions on limited knowledge.
We have no reason to believe Officer Chauvin is or isn't racist. So I can't for the life of me understand why you'd immediately jump to racist.
It's not for the police officer to decide whether there was intent to defraud. The officer has to arrest and a jury will decide the rest.
I'm sure you haven't seen that, white collar criminals don't tend to be a threat to police, they usually get arrested in their offices by detectives.
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thfcsteff
George Hunt
If they were THAT concerned with "direct contravention of the current health guidelines" then they should've stopped it from happening at all on PRECISELY those grounds from the get-go. My POINT was that with a peaceful protest in place, it is not the police's mandate to suddenly decide that a peaceful protest has run its course. As long as it remains peaceful, and is not causing harm, it is allowed to continue.That is why we had people living in trees for months at a time in the '80s, and that is what Greenham Common, the Miners Strike, etc was all about.
IF demonstrators turn violent, absolutely deal with it. IF demonstrators attack police without provocation or reason, absolutely deal with them; those are the rules of such engagement, and if someone is stupid enough to fight a copper unprovoked then they have to expect what will happen. That is life.
That you chose to address one line, and go into semantics, says a lot. I think you simply don't like any of the protestors and want them all dispersed. Is that is the case, just say that mate.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
If monitoring is an issue (and let's face it, the UK has some of the best surveillance systems in the world) then before any protest like this happens, a route map should be laid out. It is easy to connect to proper protest organisers and work that stuff out.
I made the point very clearly; separate and isolate the Herberts. Don't wade in to all of them. Sadly Scara, I have several personal experiences where the police have chosen to apprehend those either looking to avoid a beating in a mass brawl or those looking to stay away from a sudden flare-up of trouble. I have had to extricate myself from some ugly brick at West Ham away a few times back in the '80s, with things having kicked off around me that I had no awareness of (twice in the streets, once in Upton Park). Each time I had to slowly ease my way out as those who ran out of fear and were not fighting were beaten and arrested by police unwilling to go in and sort out the ACTUAL source. I have taught my kids, and even had to help friends, not only anticipate trouble but understand how to deal with it from both sides if it suddenly kicks off around you. Thankfully there is far less of that now, although away days at certain grounds still carry their share.
We are going "full circle on many things, The main issue is neither of us is prepared to cede ground. Knowledge? Interpretation too. I'd have an easier time giving a micro-=inch to you if 9 of Chauvin's complaints were not redacted. Why, I wonder, were they? The mind boggles.
As for "an officer has to arrest" they had him cuffed and ready. Why was he then brought across the street to another car and another pair? BTW, a "jury" has to decide? I will assume you are not suggesting a "jury" would decide if Floyd was guilty of knowingly passing a fake $20 bill. There would be no "jury" for that.
White collar criminals are largely not a physical threat to the police, partially because the type of crime they are engaged in requires a different set of engagements in their criminality, and partially because they are not grabbed and thrown to floors/walls/whatever and hand-cuffed. You are suggesting that Floyd was a threat. Why? he was handcuffed and compliant in the first phase. It seemed all under control until Office dingdonghead 1 and Officer dingdonghead 2 arrived on the scene with their combined 20+ redacted complaints to "sort it out"...
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I have not seen that but wow, how ridiculous, divisive and utterly unhelpful.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
One was an ex-detective.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Please. You're better than that last sentence, right?
If that is what you "sense" then your "senses" are off.
Do you know what BLM are about? Look them up. And please gauge that BLM are the target of MUCh misinformation and appropriation by agitation groups.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
I don't think it was his speech, he just read it out.
Although he isn't actually saying it, it does sound like he didn’t know what was in the speech when he agreed to read it out.
StephenH
David Ginola
Yes!
But how many ‘Good old Brits’ have been like that with the ‘ Pakies on the corner‘ and the like!
There is an element of ‘why not’ Imho and what’s good for the goose etc.
Being discriminated against funnily doesn’t leave you with a balanced warm fuzzy feelings. I can assure you!
So the answer to historic discrimination is brand new, fresh discrimination?
Doesn't seem right to me.
Diamond Lights
Alan Hutton
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Oh...
So are you saying two wrongs make it right. ?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Think it is more that some were pretty effusive in their condemnation of protesters trying to make a difference and blasé about people getting a tan.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Fair enough if that was the point he was making, still both are wrong though.
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
What's the 'right' thing with statues, Gone With the Wind, Litte Brittian etc.?
On one hand, I appreciate the statue in Bristol falling. It is wholly symbolic and right thing at that specific time and place. For people who have gone to schools and watched theatre shows in institutions named after someone who got rich off the backs of their ancestors, dumping a statue in a river causes no one any real harm and draws a line: times have changed and we won't have it anymore. (Incidentally who was saying protesting doesn't work, was it @scaramanga ? Rather than years of intellectual faffing, in days a Bristolian theatre has changed its name and a statue been removed after years of intellectual nonsense).
BUT, I don't think all statues of slave trade-related people need to be pulled down. I don't think there are m/any Jewish people who'd want Auschwitz leveled. What needs to happen is the statues need to be updated. Shamed if you will. Whether that is an addition of a slave statue next to them - so we are reminded of history - or the statue lowered or cut down in size to symbolise that we don't look up to these people anymore, the addition of meaningful info boards next to them etc. I don't know. I like the idea of them being lowered, that we look doen on these people.
What this recent phone footage and rights movement shows more than anything is that history is affective. To this day.
To move forward we have to recognise and understand history; to ensure we learn from it.
On one hand, I appreciate the statue in Bristol falling. It is wholly symbolic and right thing at that specific time and place. For people who have gone to schools and watched theatre shows in institutions named after someone who got rich off the backs of their ancestors, dumping a statue in a river causes no one any real harm and draws a line: times have changed and we won't have it anymore. (Incidentally who was saying protesting doesn't work, was it @scaramanga ? Rather than years of intellectual faffing, in days a Bristolian theatre has changed its name and a statue been removed after years of intellectual nonsense).
BUT, I don't think all statues of slave trade-related people need to be pulled down. I don't think there are m/any Jewish people who'd want Auschwitz leveled. What needs to happen is the statues need to be updated. Shamed if you will. Whether that is an addition of a slave statue next to them - so we are reminded of history - or the statue lowered or cut down in size to symbolise that we don't look up to these people anymore, the addition of meaningful info boards next to them etc. I don't know. I like the idea of them being lowered, that we look doen on these people.
What this recent phone footage and rights movement shows more than anything is that history is affective. To this day.
To move forward we have to recognise and understand history; to ensure we learn from it.
HBO has pulled gone with the wind.... The movie that provided the first black american oscar winner
set during the american civil war... its an historical movie. Lets rewrite history
It appears that for many, it is preferable to ignore or forget history than to challenge and discuss it.
