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AVB

parklane1 said:
It does not matter where he goes, they are those who have made their mind up about him being crap and say it all the time, no way will they admit they may have been wrong about him.
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If he proves it in one of the top 4 leagues then I would be happy to change my opinion. I don't hold any grudges against him, I am just unimpressed with his managerial reigns in England. I changed my opinion of Danny Rose for example, I used to think he was crap and not good enough for us.

Btw, people not changing their opinions on him is hardly limited to AVB, or this forum for that matter. A lot of fans won't change their mind about x player or manager.
 
billyiddo said:
can we get a list of leagues it's acceptable to win trophies in - for future reference?

Portugal and Russia obviously off the list for being two bob (nothing to do with the fact AVB has actually done well in both these countries, oh no not at all), Holland and the MLS, as mentioned above? Scotland obviously goes without saying. Germany has to be crossed off i guess if we're talking one team leagues, as does France i suppose - Real and Barca make Spain a little one sided what with having so much more money than the others so im not sure it'd be fair to include them. Italy? bit corrupt isn't it - wouldn't want to have that hanging over anything you win there...

Premiership or nothing else it looks like then eh lads? best league in da wurld!!!!
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Premier League, la liga, serie A. Win any of those I will take him seriously. Or win the league or a significant trophy any where with one of the smaller club's in the league, by coaching an inferior team to be better than its individual parts. Like mcclaren did at FC Twente, simeone has done at Athletico, Ramos and the current coach of Sevilla, Ferguson did at Aberdeen.
 
Robspur12 said:
Premier League, la liga, serie A. Win any of those I will take him seriously. Or win the league or a significant trophy any where with one of the smaller club's in the league,
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Are you aware how few living managers have done any of that?

Does he have to be in that elite group if managers for you to take him seriously?

Most sensible people take Poch seriously and he's done none of that.
 
scaramanga said:
Are you aware how few living managers have done any of that?

Does he have to be in that elite group if managers for you to take him seriously?

Most sensible people take Poch seriously and he's done none of that.
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Sure but AVB is lauded as being one of those "elite" managers. My contention is he is just an average manager not particularly bad or good. Poch has never had the opportunities of AVB. He has worked hard at lesser club's with fewer resources and built his rep from the bottom up. Had AVB done the same rather than be parachuted in from one big club to another I would have respected him as much as I do Poch.[/QUOTE]
 
He deserves respect for what he achieved at Porto. He undoubtedly sullied his copybook with his time in the Premier League but mainly because of how he handled the pressure rather than his results. I am sure that there is a way back for him to managing a big club in one of the top four leagues. A decent run in Europe this season, for example, would do wonders for his reputation.
 
milo said:
He deserves respect for what he achieved at Porto. He undoubtedly sullied his copybook with his time in the Premier League but mainly because of how he handled the pressure rather than his results. I am sure that there is a way back for him to managing a big club in one of the top four leagues. A decent run in Europe this season, for example, would do wonders for his reputation.
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Look football mostly defies logic with plenty of mediocre managers in plum jobs. So the likelihood is he will end up at one of the 2nd tier clubs of the top Euro leagues. By that I mean it is unlikely he will get barca, real utd, bayern or Milan. But I would respect his abilities more if he could do as Poch and koeman have done , take a club of similar status to soton and have them exceed their expectations.
 
Robspur12 said:
Look football mostly defies logic with plenty of mediocre managers in plum jobs. So the likelihood is he will end up at one of the 2nd tier clubs of the top Euro leagues. By that I mean it is unlikely he will get barca, real utd, bayern or Milan. But I would respect his abilities more if he could do as Poch and koeman have done , take a club of similar status to soton and have them exceed their expectations.
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Does his UEFA Cup at Porto count for nothing?
 
milo said:
Does his UEFA Cup at Porto count for nothing?
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You tell me. It seems to be the thing that has marked him out as this outstanding coach. Yet at the time Porto winning a uefa cup was not regarded as unlikely as say a Sevilla win when Ramos took over. Had he followed it with another or gone on like Mourinho to win the champs league his reputation would have been deserved. Ramos won 2 yet his reputation is in absolute tatters. Steve mclaren has achieved some pretty big things, in my opinion easily comparable to AvB but because he is unfashionably English posters on here would not dream of having him as our coach. Neither of those managers are held up with the esteem of dear Andre.
 
Robspur12 said:
You tell me. It seems to be the thing that has marked him out as this outstanding coach. Yet at the time Porto winning a uefa cup was not regarded as unlikely as say a Sevilla win when Ramos took over. Had he followed it with another or gone on like Mourinho to win the champs league his reputation would have been deserved. Ramos won 2 yet his reputation is in absolute tatters. Steve mclaren has achieved some pretty big things, in my opinion easily comparable to AvB but because he is unfashionably English posters on here would not dream of having him as our coach. Neither of those managers are held up with the esteem of dear Andre.
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Who cares how much esteem he is held in? That sounds like you are judging him against his reputation rather than what he has or has not achieved.

Personally, I would not want Mclaren, Ramos or AVB as our manager but I agree that they have all achieved good things during their careers.

I think that AVB's big mistake was leaving Porto too early.
 
milo said:
Who cares how much esteem he is held in? That sounds like you are judging him against his reputation rather than what he has or has not achieved.

Personally, I would not want Mclaren, Ramos or AVB as our manager but I agree that they have all achieved good things during their careers.

I think that AVB's big mistake was leaving Porto too early.
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Isn't that the point of this entire thread?
 
Btw milo imo in the context of the quality of their respective teams, I believe that hodgson and mclaren getting to the final of the UEFA cups despite losing were arguably bigger achievements than AvB winning it with Porto.
 
a bigger achievement than doing the treble?

that's a rare feat that not many managers can claim
 
billyiddo said:
a bigger achievement than doing the treble?

that's a rare feat that not many managers can claim
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I am only comparing his biggest achievement, the UEFA cup, against the other 2. The domestic trophies were not a great surprise given Porto's relative resources and history in Portugal. But the jump to make Porto, a club with massive recent European pedigree, uefa cup winners imo, is less than taking either Middlesbrough or Fulham, clubs with no pedigree, to the final.
 
Well i guess by that logic, Redknapp taking us to two FA Cup semi-finals in 3 years was a greater achievement than Fergie winning the CL in 2008.

After all, we have no pedigree for years of doing well in the FA Cup; in fact before 2010 when was the previous time we got to an FA Cup semi-final?
 
Robspur12 said:
I am only comparing his biggest achievement, the UEFA cup, against the other 2. The domestic trophies were not a great surprise given Porto's relative resources and history in Portugal. But the jump to make Porto, a club with massive recent European pedigree, uefa cup winners imo, is less than taking either Middlesbrough or Fulham, clubs with no pedigree, to the final.
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i understand that but the point i was trying to make (although not very clear tbf) was that to win the EL whilst going all the way in both a league and a domestic trophy adds to the achievement of winning that particular trophy (more games/more strain on the squad/keeping a winning mentality and focus through so many games) - which elevates it over simply just reaching the final with an average side, as good an achievement as that was for those managers
 
Do you guys know who he had in that Porto team? How much they were sold for.... And he had absolutely nothing to do with assembling that squad, he walked in to the best squad in the country and Europa league.... By miles, whopdi do, let him do it a club that is not the best and richest in a country, and then I may change my mind of him, do it without sucking the joy out of the game with his anti football, turgid style that all his teams play and then we can talk.
 
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