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AVB

billyiddo said:
They didn't d o it the season after AVB left, it was the season following that, fwiw



How good are people making him out to be? :confused:All i've seen is people saying he's doing a good job at Zenit and done a brilliant job at Porto - whereas everytime that gets mentioned yourself and Rob come in to tell us all that winning things in leagues outside the top 4 isn't actually much Of an achievement at all
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One of our best managers in recent times.

Will be managing Barca or Real soon etc.

Are we not allowed to have that opinion then because it isn't the consensus? What we're saying is, winning a title in Russia is nothing to really shout about.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Pretty much this. Winning the treble is a fantastic achievement, but he hasn't built on that success. OK granted you can't really top winning a treble, unless it's the CL instead but you get the point I'm trying to make.

I fully agree, He's not a bad manager, but he's not as good as some on here make out. I mean if put what he did with us into context (finishing 5th), it's about par given our resources and the strength of the league at the time, Liverpool still being very hot and cold for example.
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You could win it in aleague that matters... Oh brick there I go again. Missus.
 
Factually AVB is one of our best managers of recent times.

Managing Barca or Real? Hmmm.....but have you seen who those two clubs hire?? Could easily happen (not saying it will neccesarily but it wouldn't shock me tbh, more because of how those clubs operate rather than AVB himself)
 
glorygloryeze said:
Factually AVB is one of our best managers of recent times.

Managing Barca or Real? Hmmm.....but have you seen who those two clubs hire?? Could easily happen (not saying it will neccesarily but it wouldn't shock me tbh, more because of how those clubs operate rather than AVB himself)
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By what measure? If you were to take winning % for example then Tim Sherwood would be ranked as one of our best managers recently. I think most people on here would rather eat their own feces than admit that.

Just to be clear, I do not believe Sherwood is one of our best managers in recent times.
 
Jurgen the German said:
One of our best managers in recent times.

Will be managing Barca or Real soon etc.

Are we not allowed to have that opinion then because it isn't the consensus?
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Well his first season was factually one of our best of recent times, 2x4th place aside, and lets face it competition isn't strong for that mantle.

If he carries on winning leagues and cup cometitions why couldn't he manage one of those? Clubs on the continent are a lot more progressive than here in England when it comes to appointing managers, will go for less obvious big names - hell if Ramos can manage Real Madrid after his time with us i wouldn't rule anyone out, especially someone so young...besides i don't think anyone is saying he's good enough yet just that potentially he could get there
 
Jurgen the German said:
By what measure? If you were to take winning % for example then Tim Sherwood would be ranked as one of our best managers recently. I think most people on here would rather eat their own feces than admit that.

Just to be clear, I do not believe Sherwood is one of our best managers in recent times.
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You did well to qualify that statement. Those who say AVB was one of our best would say:

- first coach for over 20 years to finally outfox SAF at Old Trafford
- record PL points haul
- likely best points haul vs top 4/5
- style of play may have been 'boring' in comparison to, say, Redknapp or Sherwood's up-and-at-em style but was more geared to taking on bigger teams in a more tactically smarter way (i agree this fell away in the first half of the 2013-14 season)
- first season was littered with many never-say-die late retrievals of games and points; many NOT to do with Bale
 
billyiddo said:
Well his first season was factually one of our best of recent times, 2x4th place aside, and lets face it competition isn't strong for that mantle.

If he carries on winning leagues and cup cometitions why couldn't he manage one of those? Clubs on the continent are a lot more progressive than here in England when it comes to appointing managers, will go for less obvious big names - hell if Ramos can manage Real Madrid after his time with us i wouldn't rule anyone out, especially someone so young...besides i don't think anyone is saying he's good enough yet just that potentially he could get there
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He'd have to win titles in stronger leagues IMO to get a job at Real or Barca. I don't think it's a case of he has to succeed in the Premier League or nothing.
 
glorygloryeze said:
You did well to qualify that statement. Those who say AVB was one of our best would say:

- first coach for over 20 years to finally outfox SAF at Old Trafford
- record PL points haul
- likely best points haul vs top 4/5
- style of play may have been 'boring' in comparison to, say, Redknapp or Sherwood's up-and-at-em style but was more geared to taking on bigger teams in a more tactically smarter way (i agree this fell away in the first half of the 2013-14 season)
- first season was littered with many never-say-die late retrievals of games and points; many NOT to do with Bale
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Winning away at Arsenal just as big of an achievement in my opinion given how pathetic we typically play when we go there and that we hadn't won there since 1993. I'm not dismissing the win at Old Trafford, but we had come close to winning there before but had been screwed royally by refs and linesmen.

The points total is overrated to a degree. We finished in a higher league position this season compared to last with a lower points total, did anyone seriously care?

The results against the top teams improved, but we looked hopeless when it came to breaking down teams who sat back, barely creating even one meaningful chance. I struggle to see what the tactics were against the lesser sides.

I'll give you the late goals, we did play with a never say die attitude. We also do under Poch.
 
glorygloryeze said:
You mean like Martino or Enrique? Or Pellegrini?
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Well that's a bit different, I don't think anyone believes Pelligrini or Martino are top managers. Enrique may turn out to be one but too early to say. But the opinion seems to be AVB would get those jobs based on the fact that he's one of the elite managers as opposed to stealing a living like Ramos did at Real.
 
billyiddo said:
This sums it up really - some people think the EPL is the only measure, whilst the rest realize there's more to football than this country :)
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Achievement at Porto.....magnificent. Chelsea...failure. THFC....failure. Russia....meaninglessness. Now that sums it up for me.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Winning away at Arsenal just as big of an achievement in my opinion given how pathetic we typically play when we go there and that we hadn't won there since 1993. I'm not dismissing the win at Old Trafford, but we had come close to winning there before but had been screwed royally by refs and linesmen.

The points total is overrated to a degree. We finished in a higher league position this season compared to last with a lower points total, did anyone seriously care?

The results against the top teams improved, but we looked hopeless when it came to breaking down teams who sat back, barely creating even one meaningful chance.
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Points total represents what you have done over 38 games - your league finish pits what you done against the other 19 teams, one is in your control, the other is not...

If at the beginning of the season you're given a chance to pick your points total, you'll choose the highest available and hope the other sides didn't do as well - well that season we statistically had OUR best run of 38 games since the leagues inception, unfortunately 4 teams done better.

Finishing highest in the table is obviously the bigger acheivment, which i've yet to see anyone disagree on, but lets not write off our best ever points tally as though it's not a sign of a good season.

It's like a 100m runner, he uses his personal best as the benchmark everytime he runs, he doesn't aim for the time he won his last race in...
 
Roy1983 said:
Achievement at Porto.....magnificent. Chelsea...failure. THFC....failure. Russia....meaninglessness. Now that sums it up for me.
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Or you could say he's been a success everywhere he's been outside of the Premier League
 
DTA said:
Do you guys know who he had in that Porto team? How much they were sold for.... And he had absolutely nothing to do with assembling that squad, he walked in to the best squad in the country and Europa league.... By miles, whopdi do, let him do it a club that is not the best and richest in a country, and then I may change my mind of him, do it without sucking the joy out of the game with his anti football, turgid style that all his teams play and then we can talk.
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A lot of great managers can be written off on that basis.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Well that's a bit different, I don't think anyone believes Pelligrini or Martino are top managers. Enrique may turn out to be one but too early to say. But the opinion seems to be AVB would get those jobs based on the fact that he's one of the elite managers as opposed to stealing a living like Ramos did at Real.
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Or maybe the consensus is that AVB has done well at clubs that are in the top 2/3 in their leagues (bar Chelski) and that if the likes of Martino, Pellegrini, Enrique and Rams could get jobs at Barca and Real then so can AVB (who if hired would have better prior records of success than at least two of those four)
 
billyiddo said:
Points total represents what you have done over 38 games - your league finish pits what you done against the other 19 teams, one is in your control, the other is not...

If at the beginning of the season you're given a chance to pick your points total, you'll choose the highest available and hope the other sides didn't do as well - well that season we statistically had OUR best run of 38 games since the leagues inception, unfortunately 4 teams done better.

Finishing highest in the table is obviously the bigger acheivment, which i've yet to see anyone disagree on, but lets not write off our best ever points tally as though it's not a sign of a good season.

It's like a 100m runner, he uses his personal best as the benchmark everytime he runs, he doesn't aim for the time he won his last race in...
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You are wasting your time mate, as I said earlier they are those who will not give him credit for what he has done no matter what.
 
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