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AVB

DTA said:
Do you guys know who he had in that Porto team? How much they were sold for.... And he had absolutely nothing to do with assembling that squad, he walked in to the best squad in the country and Europa league.... By miles, whopdi do, let him do it a club that is not the best and richest in a country, and then I may change my mind of him, do it without sucking the joy out of the game with his anti football, turgid style that all his teams play and then we can talk.
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He took over a Porto team which finished 3rd the previous season and then went undefeated in the league, winning 4 out of the 5 competitions they entered - i don't care who was in the team that's bloody good going regardless.
 
billyiddo said:
i understand that but the point i was trying to make (although not very clear tbf) was that to win the EL whilst going all the way in both a league and a domestic trophy adds to the achievement of winning that particular trophy (more games/more strain on the squad/keeping a winning mentality and focus through so many games) - which elevates it over simply just reaching the final with an average side, as good an achievement as that was for those managers
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I see your point but then you should also take into account the number of games played by Middlesbrough and Fulham in the seasons they reached their respective finals? In a far more competitive league than Porto played in.
 
Robspur12 said:
I see your point but then you should also take into account the number of games played by Middlesbrough and Fulham in the seasons they reached their respective finals? In a far more competitive league than Porto played in.
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Competitive for who? Man U? Chelski? I'm sure many from Portual may say our league is as "uncompetitive" as theirs given who for years has dominated league title wins, especially in those years you reference for Fulham and Middlesbrough
 
billyiddo said:
He took over a Porto team which finished 3rd the previous season and then went undefeated in the league, winning 4 out of the 5 competitions they entered - i don't care who was in the team that's bloody good going regardless.
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The same team who won it the 2 seasons previous to that. We could go round in circles. But my point is valid. In relative resource terms and recent history it was no great surprise to win the Portuguese league and cup. You just needed a competent coach. And as we know success breeds success. Whereas taking perennial league strugglers to the uefa final imho was a greater achievement, possibly the greatest in both club's histories.
 
Robspur12 said:
I see your point but then you should also take into account the number of games played by Middlesbrough and Fulham in the seasons they reached their respective finals? In a far more competitive league than Porto played in.
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Both had poor league campaigns so im not sure of the relevance tbh
 
Robspur12 said:
The same team who won it the 2 seasons previous to that. We could go round in circles. But my point is valid. In relative resource terms and recent history it was no great surprise to win the Portuguese league and cup. You just needed a competent coach. And as we know success breeds success. Whereas taking perennial league strugglers to the uefa final imho was a greater achievement.
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Cool, id rather win the trophy personally but whatever floats your boat :p

Do you think we had a better league cup campaign this season than Chelsea?
 
We may as well group AVB and Fergie together then; after all most of his titles cane when Manure were the biggest spending team in the league:rolleyes:
 
In fact perhaps Fergie is not as good as Harry as he got us 4th twice in 3 years as it was no surprise for him to win titles given his resources, whereas Spurs are paupers in comparison...
 
Robspur12 said:
You tell me. It seems to be the thing that has marked him out as this outstanding coach. Yet at the time Porto winning a uefa cup was not regarded as unlikely as say a Sevilla win when Ramos took over. Had he followed it with another or gone on like Mourinho to win the champs league his reputation would have been deserved. Ramos won 2 yet his reputation is in absolute tatters. Steve mclaren has achieved some pretty big things, in my opinion easily comparable to AvB but because he is unfashionably English posters on here would not dream of having him as our coach. Neither of those managers are held up with the esteem of dear Andre.
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Pretty much this. Winning the treble is a fantastic achievement, but he hasn't built on that success. OK granted you can't really top winning a treble, unless it's the CL instead but you get the point I'm trying to make.

I fully agree, He's not a bad manager, but he's not as good as some on here make out. I mean if put what he did with us into context (finishing 5th), it's about par given our resources and the strength of the league at the time, Liverpool still being very hot and cold for example.
 
billyiddo said:
Cool, id rather win the trophy personally but whatever floats your boat :p

Do you think we had a better league cup campaign this season than Chelsea?
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You are using a straw man argument here.

This is not a comparison of whether it is better to win a trophy or not! But the achievements of the coaches relative to their resources?

If you compare what Poch has available compared to Mourinho then the answer is yes. That doesn't mean it is better to lose.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Yes but did they go unbeaten again after doing it the season following AVB's departure?
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They didn't d o it the season after AVB left, it was the season following that, fwiw

Jurgen the German said:
Pretty much this. Winning the treble is a fantastic achievement, but he hasn't built on that success. OK granted you can't really top winning a treble, unless it's the CL instead but you get the point I'm trying to make.

I fully agree, He's not a bad manager, but he's not as good as some on here make out. I mean if put what he did with us into context (finishing 5th), it's about par given our resources and the strength of the league at the time, Liverpool still being very hot and cold for example.
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How good are people making him out to be? :confused:All i've seen is people saying he's doing a good job at Zenit and done a brilliant job at Porto - whereas everytime that gets mentioned yourself and Rob come in to tell us all that winning things in leagues outside the top 4 isn't actually much Of an achievement at all
 
Robspur12 said:
You are using a straw man argument here.

This is not a comparison of whether it is better to win a trophy or not! But the achievements of the coaches relative to their resources?

If you compare what Poch has available compared to Mourinho then the answer is yes. That doesn't mean it is better to lose.
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I know, hence the smiley ;)
 
Robspur12 said:
Who cares they won?
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In fact your facts seem wrong:

Porto in 2010-11: Won league unbeaten, won EL and Portugal Cup
Porto in 2011-12: Won league losing only one match
Porto in 2012-13: Won league unbeaten
Porto in 2013-14: Finished 3rd losing 7 games
Porto in 2014-15: Finished 2nd losing 2 games

So it seems AVB's season in 2010-11 WAS exceptional in the scheme of the following years. Only once going unbeaten again, and Porto didn't win another domestic Cup or European trophy.

But don't let facts get in the way of rubbishing AVB at all costs:D
 
fudge me where would I be without this thread. A better husband and dad that's for sure, I'd be spending more time with the wife and kids....
 
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